As States Turn Away Refugees – All Paris Attackers Identified So Far are EU Nationals

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: BubbaJoe

Oh. This is a pretty good recent thread about extremism and radicalization: Here

There are a few others around here too, and numerous studies done (one of the big ones in France, ironically) on why it happens. This site has a lot of information on it.

GREAT links. Thank you. S&

a reply to: eletheia

I'm reporting the news, not making it. And the point is, they are NOT new immigrants/refugees. They are EU citizens and were raised in Europe.

Check out the links above from Lucidity.

I am not aware of any other politicians, antiwar protesters, esteemed journalists or celebrities visiting Fort Chaffee, Ark., where my family was temporarily housed for two months. But Gerald Ford did.

April 1975 was indeed the cruelest month for us. But thanks to President Ford's leadership, we experienced America's kindness and generosity during our darkest days. We owe him our deepest gratitude in remembrance

Full Story

When I first read the article some years back I found it very sobering. When he was Prime Minster of Australia Malcolm Fraser oversaw the settlement of Vietnamese refugees in his country. Both Fraser and Ford left a legacy of having enriched their countries via the actions with Vietnamese refugees they undertook. I believe Tony Abbott another Australian Prime Minster for all his flaws , legacy will be be in the same vain for ensuring Syrian refugees were welcome in the land down under. A country has every right to police its borders , but that shouldn't preclude taking genuine refugees on humanitarian grounds.

By all means without big improvements in refugee services in New Zealand and even perhaps Australia will be needed to ensure Syrian refugees services are vastly improved. If services aren't improved the problems encountered by the likes of the UK with the Somalian ex pat community will be repeated. The political leaders of the US states who are opposing the settlement of Syrian refugees have choice if they want to be remembered as statesmen or just lousy politicians.

They were all European nationals but with immigrant background. Shouldnt they have been long integrated by now? So much for that notion..

These attacks are the fruit of past open borders policies and past immigration waves which created extremist breeding grounds inside Europe. Extremist breeding ground which again gets enlarged by a million people this year.

a reply to: soficrow

So is your claim their lineage all come from the EU, and none of them were refugees from the middle east at any point in their families history?

Or are you saying it's ok if refugees come and their children attack us?

a reply to: soficrow

Hark, the sound of my utter surprise....


....


....

This finding will shock no one of significant intellect, since those who organise these attacks would ordinarily want to use operators possessed of a significant understanding of the target area, individuals who fit into the local way of life and whose presence therefore goes unnoticed with a greater degree of ease.

Having some person who just arrived via overcrowded boat, to shores unfamiliar to them, with little to no linguistic capacity for the region, and attempt such a thing would see the effort become a shambles in short order. This was always going to turn out to be an internally instigated effort. No amount of border closure, no amount of suspicion of new arrivals is going to make a nett difference to the number of lives lost over time to attacks like these.

Following the religion, following the immigration, following extra national targets arriving from anywhere will not avail the security forces of much, but there is something else very interesting about the way this attack was allowed to take place. The security forces had ample warning that an attack was in the offing, and I believe that they knew enough to prevent the thing from happening at all, and simply did not. I am not suggesting that they failed to stop it. I am suggesting that they simply did not stop it, and the distinction is both subtle and important.

Meanwhile, the terrorists win twice here. They killed a large number of individuals, and they got the entire European Union into such a state, that the people who are fleeing the tyranny enforced by IS in the regions plagued by that unholy mob, are being turned away by the only nations within this entire hemisphere of the world, who might have the capacity and charity of heart to share space with them in peace. The writing on the wall is plain to read, for all who have eyes to see, and yet still there are those who bow their heads and refuse to see. For shame.

a reply to: soficrow

The fake passport belonged to a refugee that came in though Greece. They tracked him and lost him in the Balkans.
The fact that the passport was fake is irrelevant. That is part of the problem with these refugees, it is impossible to vet them with the numbers that are flooding in.

They just just stopped 5 refugees in Honduras yesterday that where using stolen Greek passports.

Even if only 1 in a 100 is up to no good. That means as many as 5000 terrorists are on the lose in the EU. Even at 1 to 1000 thats still 500. That could be hundreds of attacks like Paris.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Mmmhmm. Said from the start it probably wasn't IS/Daesh [ETA: who snuck in as refugees] at all, but the government is doing their damndest to make the connection. Even outright said so in the early statements.

You appear to be using some assumptions there - why does where their nationality is preclude them from being members of a terrorist group?

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
Mmmhmm. Said from the start it probably wasn't IS/Daesh [ETA: who snuck in as refugees] at all, but the government is doing their damndest to make the connection. Even outright said so in the early statements.

You appear to be using some assumptions there - why does where their nationality is preclude them from being members of a terrorist group?

No. I'm merely saying that it doesn't automatically mean that they are.

the terrorist were offspring of muslim immigrants. Taking up millions now that most likely will end up at the bottom of the society only creates more problems in the next few generations.

originally posted by: soficrow
Interesting how things work, isn't it?

Yes, but not surprising in the least.
This is what people do to make money in the markets, they speculate about what is about to become strong, and obviously events lead to that.
The same thing happened after 9/11, stocks in companies used in Airport security went up, stocks in US arms and defense went up, the same thing happened after 7/7 in the UK.

If something happens, our societies react, investors and speculators predict such a reaction. It's not suspicious, not nefarious, unless someone has evidence for why it would be otherwise.

And the refugee situation is a fascinating one from a sociological perspective, especially when it comes to the nonsense coming out of the US right now.

originally posted by: dismanrc
Even if only 1 in a 100 is up to no good. That means as many as 5000 terrorists are on the lose in the EU. Even at 1 to 1000 thats still 500. That could be hundreds of attacks like Paris.

Several EU nations (and America too, FYI) already have hundreds, if not thousands, of identified extremists. The refugee situation has not changed this one bit. We already had plenty of extremists in our countries, and many of them are not even Muslim!

We have extremists in our nations from every background, every religion, every race... there are plenty of nationalists, racists, extremist Christians in the US who are being monitored.

This is why people need to learn that Muslim does not automatically mean terrorist. While you're distracted by the right-wing propaganda telling you to focus exclusively on a specific group of people as being a threat, there are plenty of other people of other groups out there who need watching.

This whole terrorism issue is complex only to the uneducated

Which are majority

a reply to: soficrow

And like I said, even if they are unable to receive the refugees, it does not change my opinion with regards to bringing them here or alleviate my concerns about doing so.

a reply to: LastInLine1

I must disagree.

It is only those who are capable of assimilating complex concepts into their thought processes, who have the merest grasp of these issues what so ever. Those who demand that everything be simplified beyond reason or usefulness, are not expressing a high degree of intelligence in doing so.

The truth is that the matter is complicated. That should not, however, prevent people from FORCING themselves if necessary, to expand their intellects in order to properly encompass it. Terrorism, the causes of it, the drivers for it, historically and presently, are a deeply labyrinthine subject upon which to cogitate, and denying such does not change the reality of things one whit.

Despite its complexity, some significant understanding on the part of the majority is necessary, vital in fact, to the survival of the species at this time. Only intellectually advanced understanding of these events and the things which lead up to them, how the pieces fit together on the wider scale, can ever lead a person to the correct solutions to the issues at hand, rather than having them flail about in ignorance, in the familiar, and ineffectual manner to which we have all grown accustomed.

originally posted by: LastInLine1
This whole terrorism issue is complex only to the uneducated

Which are majority

Uneducted is a bit harsh , unless you mean ignorant of the causes of terrorism and what drives them. The problem most people have is that they are too lazy to learn the truth and instead rely on what they are told in their media outlet of choice. As soon as anyone speaks up about the complexity and the need for a rational approach they are labelled a "terrorist sympathiser". We have a prime example of someone like that here in the UK. Right now the UK is hellbent on bombing the crap out of ISIS in Syria.....but conveniently ignoring the fact that ISIS are occupying cities occupied by normal people who are also victims of the ISIS horrors such as torture, rape , beheadings etc. What a lovely life they have, keep their head down and avoid being targetted by ISIS to end being blown to bits by a western bomb.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: soficrow


This finding will shock no one of significant intellect, since those who organise these attacks would ordinarily want to use operators possessed of a significant understanding of the target area, individuals who fit into the local way of life and whose presence therefore goes unnoticed with a greater degree of ease.

Having some person who just arrived via overcrowded boat, to shores unfamiliar to them, with little to no linguistic capacity for the region, and attempt such a thing would see the effort become a shambles in short order. This was always going to turn out to be an internally instigated effort. No amount of border closure, no amount of suspicion of new arrivals is going to make a nett difference to the number of lives lost over time to attacks like these.

Following the religion, following the immigration, following extra national targets arriving from anywhere will not avail the security forces of much, but there is something else very interesting about the way this attack was allowed to take place. The security forces had ample warning that an attack was in the offing, and I believe that they knew enough to prevent the thing from happening at all, and simply did not. I am not suggesting that they failed to stop it. I am suggesting that they simply did not stop it, and the distinction is both subtle and important.

Meanwhile, the terrorists win twice here. They killed a large number of individuals, and they got the entire European Union into such a state, that the people who are fleeing the tyranny enforced by IS in the regions plagued by that unholy mob, are being turned away by the only nations within this entire hemisphere of the world, who might have the capacity and charity of heart to share space with them in peace. The writing on the wall is plain to read, for all who have eyes to see, and yet still there are those who bow their heads and refuse to see. For shame.

Well said.

a reply to: soficrow

Fake Syrian passport actually does lend itself to that person posing as a Syrian refugee, or at least pretending to be from Syria. Isis has claimed they are infiltrating amongst the refugees.

The findings in OP dont change any if that.

How bout instead of immigrant forcing on europe and america, we use those resources to start them off in a tent city in their own area, protect them with a few troops and start bringing in suppliesand let them build their own city? Too sensible?

a reply to: soficrow

Of course Putin thinks it was a false flag: he has arranged a few himself. Personally, I think it is almost a bit racist to think that Muslims are incapable of planning and executing an attack like this.

a reply to: pirhanna

How bout instead of immigrant forcing on europe and america, we use those resources to start them off in a tent city in their own area, protect them with a few troops and start bringing in suppliesand let them build their own city? Too sensible?

No nation in the region wants them. Most of them already have a problem with the number of Palestinian refugees they have. The Paris attacks were certainly not the work of refugees... it took time, money, and a familiarity with the city and its culture to plan and execute.