Think someone is ignorant? Teach them!

So this isn't really a rant but I was not sure where to put it...

If you truly feel it's important for people to see your way, teach them. Use logic, use statistics, use your personal experiences and empathy and compassion to help ease them toward truth.

What brought me to this ? Recent talks about..Muslims/Islam/Isis/Isil/Daesh/How many names are we using now?

A while back I was one to think " Yeah! Bad Muslims! Down with them!"

Then a simple statistic was shared with me.

Over a billion people are muslim.

Less than a percent are radical.

Yeah, the mainstream media is going to highlight every bad thing every muslim ( or could be possibly related to a muslim distantly ) does to ensure our wars keep being paid for by the ignorant tax payer, but the truth is.. This isn't a fight against muslims, it's not against any religion, ethnicity, or any large group of people. It's against a small group of extremists.

This thought process applies to many other topics, though...

Most Christians don't believe the world was created in 144 human hours. They believe it was created in 6 days, according to what a day is to God. ( Why would it be this worlds day? )

Most gun-control advocates do not actually want your guns to be taken away, and the government to be the only people armed.

Most pro-life people do not deny that abortions can be used to save a life/is a choice in a rape situation.

Most pro-choice people do not advocate "abortions" post/at the time of birth.

The list goes on and on, but these are just a few topics that can be cleared up by just ASKING what the person actually thinks, rather than assuming the most radical version anyone chooses. So, next time you see someone that says something you find to be ignorant? Share with them. Share a statistic, share an anecdote, an emotion, a story, have a conversation... Or you could just spit on them and let them keep being the way they are, and let them keep spreading incorrect ideologies. Up to you!

Let's deny ignorance, and spread knowledge, fellow ats members, have a good day.

-Deadlyhope

a reply to: deadlyhope

You can only teach someone open to learning, and not willfully ignorant.

And this doesn't really help the willfully ignorant, and willfully indoctrinated, who refuse to acknowledge or even consider anything outside of their ignorant, narrow, and distorted point of view.

That's what's a shame.

I think it is not so important to teach people what you think but to encourage them to study and discover what works for them. Share your point of view and the reasons for it but encourage them to listen to other views as well. That is the beginning of the end of ignorance for all of us.

Cant teach a gullible evolutionist that their beliefs are akin to Unicorns that fart fairy floss
They need their religion to get through life.

Let them go about happily ignorant providing they harm no one

In order to teach someone something you need two things:

1.That the person is open to a different point of view and willing to learn about it.
2.You by yourself must know what you are talking about.

Most people think they "know" something because they believe it to be so. So when you actually ask them "how do you know?" it just comes down to "trust me" or "you have to believe".
Also if someone "believes" something it will have no desire to learn something new. "I believe because I want to believe".

Belief is the opposite of knowledge.
So not much place is left for learning.

So until these two conditions are meet nobody learns nothing; it's just a war of opinions and beliefs.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Neat that you re-evaluated an opinion OP, but WhiteHat probably has somewhat of a point, too.

Process diagram should be:

Engage --> Share --> Re-Evaluate --> Start Again

Looks more like this:

Engage --> Assume --> Categorize --> It's Okay Not To Listen Because You're A Dirty Communist

^
How do we get people out of the dirty Communist phase? And not just get out of it, but do it without adopting any techniques that were popularized through MKUltra or the liberal use of shipping containers?

Have generally found staying engaged with someone who is trying offensive to smack you down is harder than reminding one's self to contribute facts / insight ... and of course the receiving end of the smack down is often when you end up in the dirty Communist box yourself because you know ... that person smacked me down, they're probably a dirty Communist, too.

Sounds to me like anybody that disagrees with your opinion is ignorant.
Most subjects are not black and white.

If you are specifically referring to online forums such as this, you can spout all the crap...sorry education facts and logic you like but you will never not EVER change someone's mind or opinions. Can anyone on ATS honestly hand on heart say that what they have posted has made a ha'peth of difference and they've actually had someone go "oh ok you're quite right I will now re evaluate all my opinions because of what you've said and come back and agree with you wholeheartedly"
Doubtful
Its all venting really
And one upmanship

Ignorance is a dirty word on ATS.

If you point out someone is being "ignorant" they claim you have resorted to name calling.

No matter what on ATS most of us like to think we are the smartest guy in the room, there are so many intellectual elitists on ATS who in reality have a very distorted world view that to a outsider looks utterly ignorant. You cannot teach these people because they don't want to be taught they just want to be right.

a reply to: Liquesence

I somewhat agree, though most people I talk to are not so much unwilling to change, just haven't been given a reason to yet. There are certain people that have very closed minds, and I am not so sure how to get through to them, but I'd personally deem them a minority.

Good post with nice well rounded arguments. You have a level head between those shoulders cheers to you friend.



a reply to: deadlyhope

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That's me changing my mind in a thread - I am definitely not the only one that can be spoken to with reason, though.

( Later in the thread, I concede creationism should not be taught in a science classroom, because it is not in itself a scientific theory - My original premise was it should be because it's one of the most widely held beliefs at how the universe came about )

a reply to: Bluntone22

Hmm? I am not calling those who dispute my opinions as ignorant, opinions are free game.

There are statistics, however.. That can't be argued. I prefer to use these when a person is too stubborn to listen to any other reason, because they're not deniable.

Plus, you don't know my stance on the issues I brought up - for instance, I realize that pro-lifers, pro-choicers often don't have the radical stance the other side shows them to have. This has nothing to do with my personal opinion, but rather two sides understanding the message from the other in a more clear way.

Recently the site owner wrote a thread pointing out such things - Calling all muslims terrorists and calling for their genocide is extreme ignorance, for instance, because it's a FACT that the overwhelming majority are not radical, or part of isis..etc.

I know a lot of partisan issues and such are not black and white, I simply mentioned attempting to connect to people in a genuine way - And if you have statistics to back you up, use them. Extremely ignorant people will deny things that have statistics, but more than some seem to think will follow the facts and perhaps, just maybe have a change of mind.

a reply to: deadlyhope


I understand what you are saying but I have to disagree. Statistics may not lie but what they mean is always up for interpretation. Especially so when discussing what people believe in their hearts.
The republican war on women for instance, who believes that crap? I bet I could find a bunch on Ats.
The confederate flag wavers are all racist's! ,,,,yeah, no.
Want to talk about michael brown? Which evidence should we dismiss?
Yes most Muslims are not radical.
Does that mean we should ignore the ones that are?
Most cops are good cops.
Should we not talk about the violence that some police officers commit?
We have millions of guns in this country and less than one percent ever harm anyone. Will the site owner feel the need to defend the gun owners in a thread? Probably not.

I completely agree we should listen to each other.
I agree people will ignore facts when their emotions get in the way.
But don't expect people to change their beliefs because of statistics. We are only human after all.

originally posted by: Pinke
a reply to: deadlyhope

Neat that you re-evaluated an opinion OP, but WhiteHat probably has somewhat of a point, too.

Process diagram should be:

Engage --> Share --> Re-Evaluate --> Start Again

Looks more like this:

Engage --> Assume --> Categorize --> It's Okay Not To Listen Because You're A Dirty Communist

^
How do we get people out of the dirty Communist phase? And not just get out of it, but do it without adopting any techniques that were popularized through MKUltra or the liberal use of shipping containers?

Have generally found staying engaged with someone who is trying offensive to smack you down is harder than reminding one's self to contribute facts / insight ... and of course the receiving end of the smack down is often when you end up in the dirty Communist box yourself because you know ... that person smacked me down, they're probably a dirty Communist, too.

By example of not being a 'dirty communist'.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
I think it is not so important to teach people what you think but to encourage them to study and discover what works for them. Share your point of view and the reasons for it but encourage them to listen to other views as well. That is the beginning of the end of ignorance for all of us.

I agree with this.

I would put "provoking thought" much higher on my list of priorities in how I would like to influence or impact others.

Even if I feel sure of my information, to have others swallow and embrace it coming from me would be a catastrophy!
That does nothing at all to promote or encourage them to develop their critical thinking and analyze, research... no longer just swallow what they are told!

That is sometimes the value in playing devils advocate- provoking them to delve into and develop their views.
Or being somewhat vague.... provoking images, disjuncted thoughts, something that provokes some reflection later.
I doubt there is any "ideal" approach to all topics, with all individuals. Intuition has to help with that. But in general, I prefer provoking thought on their part than force feeding them my own.

Some people are willing to listen and engage. Others will immediately dismiss information because of the source or the person relaying it. The DM is a great example. Yes, a lot of the stuff they print is slanted. That doesn't mean they never tell the truth or get the story right. And if you relay things you found in the DM there are people here who will automatically assume nothing you say is ever right, no matter where you found it.

Using personal experience doesn't work as many people will dismiss it as unproven anecdote. In other words, if what you said doesn't fit their logic you must be lying. Statistics can be warped. For every document I can find that says cities with the strongest gun control legislation have the most crime a liberal can find a document that says the opposite. The documents are out there for all to see, but people tend to believe the ones that make the most sense to them.