What Really is a Neo-Con?

Originally posted by forestlady
I would also add that the Neocons dont believe in the Constitution, they see it as outdated.

I think you will find that they do.

Neo-Conservatives are strongly against the idea of "liberalising" the United States Constitution and there main objective is to uphold and defend the US Constitution plus US interests on a domestic and international scale.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
...U.S. military power should be used freely to overturn unfriendly regimes worldwide and replace them with pro-U.S. republics/democracies..

Bingo! The problem is that the US has no business in "spreading Democracy" anyway...The USA is not even supposed to be a Democracy in the first place! As a matter of fact, the US Founding Forefathers feared Democracy as much as we fear Communism & Terrorism today!
Throughout all of known human history, all but one Democracy has mutated into Facism or Tyranny...Anyone remember which Democracy didn't? It was the Greeks during their Classical Age...Their Democracy fell due to foriegn (barbarian) invasion before it could fully mutate!
The USA started as a Constitutional Republic...How many people have even read the thing lately anyway? Especially among the very "neo-cons" who have sworn to "preserve, defend & uphold" that very same document? Talk about a serious case of oath-breaking!
No, it's not just the President who has to take the oath...All Offices of all three government branches (Executive, Judicial & Legislative) on both Federal & State levels must take the oath!
How can anyone trust the "word" of anyone else who is so quick to break their oaths? Do we really need to have so many oath-breakers in control of our very lives? It's not just the neo-cons, either...I'd be willing to bet that most Dems & Reps have broken their oaths too.

Originally posted by Patri0t
Vote third party

A fourth choice...No Confidence.

[edit on 28-10-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
U.S. military power should be used freely to overturn unfriendly regimes worldwide and replace them with pro-U.S. republics/democracies.

Not only should it be the job of the US, it should be the job of the UN to replace undemocratic regimes with democratic and pro-UN governments. Its not an imperialist view, its needed to make this World a safer place. You do not want areas of the World that are closed off from the rest of us and are controlled by paranoid leaders i.e North Korea.

Originally posted by infinite
Not only should it be the job of the US, it should be the job of the UN to replace undemocratic regimes with democratic and pro-UN governments. Its not an imperialist view, its needed to make this World a safer place. You do not want areas of the World that are closed off from the rest of us and are controlled by paranoid leaders i.e North Korea.

I agree, but the problem is the UN is mostly composed of dictatorships and governments that give their citizens few civil rights.

Maybe there should be a new organization more selective in its membership that has the power to look into threats to international peace and human rights.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Maybe there should be a new organization more selective in its membership that has the power to look into threats to international peace and human rights.

no,

The UN needs to be REALLY forceful on members who do not agree to the rules of the international community. The UN should also force democratic change into China aswell, a democratic China is need for a democratic world.

What is a Neocon?

A Nazi wannabe......

Originally posted by DatDude
What is a Neocon?

A Nazi wannabe......

Why do you say that?

The neocon agenda can be criticized, but they are far from Nazis. Their goal is to spread freedom, democracy, and open successful markets everywhere.

They are nothing like Nazis. :shk:

[edit on 11/22/2006 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
They are nothing like Nazis. :shk:

Comparing the Neo-Cons to the Nazis is like calling Bush a liar it is ease to do but both statements ignore rational thought process. An accurate statement would be that Neo-Cons are blinded by the ideologue which often removes them from reality. The proof of this is the fact that even some Neo-Cons admit that occupying Iraq wasn't such a good idea.

I call them Nazi wanbe's or Stallin want be's, because of what they been doing.

Steping in on State Rights
Invading everyones Privacy
Checking in on everyday americans
Telling you your a traitor if you do not accept what they say.
Invading third world countries for natural resources. Then telling americans we are liberating them.

They are not from the Goldwater mind frame, although they all say they are.
Maybe Nazi is extreme but I see a lot of simalr things in them lately.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
The neocon agenda can be criticized, but they are far from Nazis. Their goal is to spread freedom, democracy, and open successful markets everywhere.

Hmmm...Freedom for the wealthy, democracy isn't what America is supposed to be about (It's supposed to be a Constitutional Republic that our "elected officials" are supposed to swear an Oath to uphold) and open markets (& manipulated federal legislation that helps only the Corps) everywhere...Yep, sounds like we're on the right track to me!

Ben Franklin has been noted to say that the last act of any Democracy will be to elect a dictatorship...Germany was a Democracy before Hitler was actually elected into power. There's only one Democracy in the whole of human history that has not fallen into facism or dictatorship (Greeks, Classical Age)...And that's only because they fell to foreign invasion before that Democracy collapsed under its own weight. With the massive influx of new illegal immigration, it looks like the USA is under "foreign invasion" right now...
Yep, looks to me like we're on the Nazi path too...

Or have you forgotten Project Paperclip?
And the fact that a lot of the Nazi hierarchy that were captured after WW 2 were "split up" between the USA & USSR? Guess who was actually in a position to learn something about politics & social control from them? Those two respective governments & the wealthy families (who have only their owned corporations in mind) who like to manipulate those governments: elected officials come & go, but the "Shadow Government" remains to influence the next term of federal office holders.

The spread of Democracy is a soundbite-sham to prop up propaganda for the benefits of Corps, but nothing except violated Rights for American Citizens who struggle to just get by from day-to-day in a disintegrating culture (from massive influxes of immigrants who have no desire to become legalized Americans) & a down-spiraling economy (Corps "outsourcing" jobs while population skyrockets from aforementioned illegal immigration).

The media supports this because they put "minutiae" on the news while ignoring "the big picture" of how the USA is spiraling toward "Third-World Status"...After all, the news media is merely another corporation that likes the situation.

Anyone else have other thoughts about issues that a "neo-con" would support?


[edit on 2-12-2006 by MidnightDStroyer]

Originally posted by infinite
The UN needs to be REALLY forceful on members who do not agree to the rules of the international community. The UN should also force democratic change into China aswell, a democratic China is need for a democratic world.

Democracy? I assume, that this is some form of a joke, Infinite? Where is this so called Democracy? What Nation actually allows its people to have a say? You of all people, should know that the whole idea of us having our own say is a sham.

Look at our own Nation, we have three large Political Parties: Labour, Tory and Liberal Democrats. They're all funded by the same people. In fact, look at just last week when our Government stopped the investigation into the Saudi Arabian plane deals, deals which might have cost our public, the people of this nation money.

Until we ourselves have a true democracy, we don't have the right to force our views on another nation. Even then we do not, what if the people want to live their lives as we do? And when has forcing a change on another nation actually ever worked?

My leanings are as such-

Strict constructionist(i.e. don't make up stuff that's not in the constitution. If you want to change the constitution, pass an amendment).

your money and property are yours- it's a privilege that the government can tax them, not a right. I'm firmly against wealth redistribution, imminent domain, and any other such nonsense.

The Federal Government's sole responsibility is to look out for the safety and well being of it's citizens. It's not the panacea for all of life's ills.

I'm a hawk, but lean towards the Powell Doctrine- make sure of what you're getting yourself into, make sure there's an endstate, make sure you go in to win.

I support Israel- they're the only western style democracy in that region, and the sanest too.

The Federal budget needs to be balanced, and spending has to be based on reality.

I support the individual, not the Borg collective.

I support immigration reform, and secure borders.

I support the notion of willingness to assimilate as a prequisite for obtaining citizenship(i.e. don't come here, and expect us to cater to special whims based on your previous address)

The Bill of Rights are non negotiable(i.e. not at some politician's whim to take away, what many died for to secure)

If you have served your country, you need to be taken care of(and not in a half a$$ed way)

I support term limits, line item veto, and public shame for politicians who waste money- our money

I support tort reform(if you file frivolous claims, you should have to pay the costs- if you hurt yourself in the commission of a crime, or by spilling coffee on your crotch, then it's your own damn fault, not whoever has the deepest pockets).

I support a flat tax, and tax incentives for investment. I'm against the death tax.

I believe marriage = man+woman

I'm against the welfare state that keeps people perpetually down(but creates new constituents for the Democratic party).

I'm pro business- small, medium, and large, and providing incentives to keep jobs here.

I believe public schools should be more accountable for the product they produce. I'm against tenure for incompetent (and those that spew hate, and disinformation)teachers/professors. I support vouchers, if the public schools aren't competitive in their productivity.

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by DatDude
What is a Neocon?

A Nazi wannabe......

Why do you say that?

The neocon agenda can be criticized, but they are far from Nazis.

Same spectrum. Hyper liberal authoritarians.

One can be so "conservative" one is actually hyper liberal. Big spending world fixers. Think of the babies. Good gravy.

Originally posted by RANT
One can be so "conservative" one is actually hyper liberal. Big spending world fixers. Think of the babies. Good gravy.

I understand where you are coming from. Your comment made me think about Libertarianism. People consider them (me) a hyper conservative of sorts. One could also argue that I am hyper liberal...

One thing is for sure... I am no damn Neo-Con.

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by DatDude
What is a Neocon?

A Nazi wannabe......

Why do you say that?

The neocon agenda can be criticized, but they are far from Nazis.

Same spectrum. Hyper liberal authoritarians.

One can be so "conservative" one is actually hyper liberal. Big spending world fixers. Think of the babies. Good gravy.

I think one must make a distinction between defense spending vs. entitlement spending and pork barrel projects. I don't consider it a liberal view to provide the military proper funding.