Black Lives Don't Matter...

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Spider879

It's not the exclusivity that's the problem, it's the improper focus. Such a focus can only lead to horrible band-aid solutions aimed at a symptom rather than the cause. It will make the problem more convoluted not better.

Well they may get around to craft paths to what they want but here it is.

he 10 points of the Black Lives Matter campaign are:

End broken windows policing. This calls for an end to the decades-long focus on policing minor crimes and activities, especially in neighborhoods with people of color. Also addressed are the need for different approaches to those with mental health issues and an end to racial profiling.

Community oversight. This calls for an all-civilian oversight structure with discipline power that includes a Police Commission and Civilian Complaints Office. Both offices would have specific responsibilities and across-the-board power.

Limit use of force. This solution seeks to establish standards monitor how force is used.

Independently investigate and prosecute. Among other recommendations, this point seeks a permanent Special Prosecutor’s Office at the state level to investigate any police shooting.

Community representation. This calls for officers to be a more accurate representation of the communities they serve.

Body cams/film the police. This would require and fund body cameras as well as dashboard cameras. All citizens would have the right to record police interactions on a cell phone, and police would not have the right to confiscate that phone, as is the case in some states.

Training. This calls for rigorous and sustained training, especially about racial bias.

End for-profit policing. This calls for an end to quota systems and limits fines for low-income people.

Demilitarization. This seeks the end of the sale of military weapons to the nation’s police forces.

Fair police union contracts. This seeks to rewrite police union contracts that create a different set of rules for police, and asks that disciplinary records be open and accessible

It’s an ambitious list but one with a lot of common sense. No doubt it will face a backlash from some police groups, but many police also are seeking solutions.
www.dailykos.com...

This IMO is more doable than their original not so well thought out list of demands they will mature after all they are only two years old.[e

a reply to: Spider879

I like most of that, though the especially in areas of color is a very not needed addendum.

Why are so many people ... so negatively affected by BLM? I really don't understand that.

They are a group of Americans, that are exercising their rights to assemble, redress grievances, and, well speak.

You don't agree with them, don't listen to them.

I have a very difficult time believing that some of the obsessive behavior in regard to this group is not fundamentally racist.

EDIT: Nah, that last is not right.

When some folks complain about BLM, they don't talk about what these activists have said, what the goals are, etc. They want to talk about race issues in a negative light. I have a hard time seeing those negative race issues in this context as anything other than racially motivated and quite often racist.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It is race based. I don't like artificial made up divisions like race, nor do I like issues that are entirely humanitarian and socioeconomic based issues made into a purely race based issue. The problem with police corruption is not race motivated, to pretend it is is dishonest.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Gryphon66

It is race based. I don't like artificial made up divisions like race, nor do I like issues that are entirely humanitarian and socioeconomic based issues made into a purely race based issue. The problem with police corruption is not race motivated, to pretend it is is dishonest.

Yeah, I had to modify what I was saying probably while you were posting. I'm certainly not saying that anyone with a problem with BLM is racist ...

Aside from the obvious personal consequences, what is the problem with police corruption then? I don't see anyone in these conversations claiming that the police are ONLY targetting Blacks ... but I can also see some pretty good evidence that says that race is sometimes a factor.

And as far as "made up categories" ... sure, race, religion, ethnic heritage, social status are all, in a way, made up or artificial ... but I'm not sure what you mean there. We all seem to recognize racial categories fairly well, at least as referents.

a reply to: Gryphon66

It's not race, it's profiling, which exists towards black complexion due to their general standard of living due to reason which is a problem that has nothing to do with the police but economic hardships brought about by our prejudiced past. The problem with police corruption makes them easy targets due to their economic status, because the impoverished are the easiest targets for the police and due to profiling and statistics, people of black complexion are most likely to fall into that economic category, especially in certain neighborhoods.

Police corruption itself has nothing to do with race and everything to do with socioeconomic status and a system where police, judges, ect all look out for each other. It has to do with abuses of power on those most easily targeted with impunity. Our prisons are filled with people also grabbed not because of race, but because of their socioeconomic status at the bottom. They keep our prisons filled with the easiest to grab people to keep their jobs relevant while taking as little risk from maintaining their status quot. They also do the things they do to rob the people and keep their coffers full.

There may be more poor people of white complexion that are poor, but a higher percentage of people that are of black complexion are. These people are bullies using bully tactics. The numbers simply favor that targeting someone of black complexion is less risky. Percentages and numbers are neutral, the only racist thing here is why a higher percentage of people with black complexions are in poverty in the first place.

Black poverty has become what it is do to a racially disadvantaged past. It is why this profiling exists. Police corruption is a separate issue that just happens to prey upon this socioeconomic status for the purposes of keeping our prisons filled among the other terrible things they do.

For this to be fixed we need to both end police corruption, the way run our prisons, and the police judge buddy system, as well as helping the black community get out of the socioeconomic rutt they are stuck in. The first issues, the police and prison issues must be dealt with as a corruption issue, while the socioeconomic status is an exceedingly complex issue with an actual race oriented origin.

a reply to: Puppylove

That is, without a doubt, one of the best arguments I've ever read here.

All I did was nod my head while reading.

You've given me an interesting new lens to ponder the problem through.

Thank you for your post!

a reply to: Gryphon66

I'm glad to be of service

I think what many in this thread are failing to realize is that it's not about making every single event propaganda, it's not about an agenda, it's pointing out what events are covered, and which are not. Reporting white on black crime the most often, when it occurs less often than black/black crime ( more often ) fuels racial tensions. It's biased media which is contorting how things really are, and in essence painting a picture which is not only a lie, but converts people to the lie and fuels ignorance in a sense.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
I think what many in this thread are failing to realize is that it's not about making every single event propaganda, it's not about an agenda, it's pointing out what events are covered, and which are not. Reporting white on black crime the most often, when it occurs less often than black/black crime ( more often ) fuels racial tensions. It's biased media which is contorting how things really are, and in essence painting a picture which is not only a lie, but converts people to the lie and fuels ignorance in a sense.

And what you and some others are not getting is not the crime in of itself when dealt with properly, no one cause a ruckus when a white on black crime especially by an LEO is pursued with rigour and fair justice , it is the lack of the perception of justice that bring people out in the streets, rarely do one see a conviction of a LEO accused of a wrongful death, this is so even when there are cameras about, yes media like their ratings and will always leads with stories that bleeds, but black folks have been trying to tell folks and the world that this has been going on for years and until it been broadcast over new media called the internet, very few in the majority community will believe it, they simply say the cops must have a reason or they are blowing things out of proportion .
As for Black on Black crime?? well media do as much reporting on that as white on white crimes.
BTW media exploit the hell out of Black on Black crimes no one remembers the long running series COPS??.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Gryphon66

It's not race, it's profiling, which exists towards black complexion due to their general standard of living due to reason which is a problem that has nothing to do with the police but economic hardships brought about by our prejudiced past. The problem with police corruption makes them easy targets due to their economic status, because the impoverished are the easiest targets for the police and due to profiling and statistics, people of black complexion are most likely to fall into that economic category, especially in certain neighborhoods.

Police corruption itself has nothing to do with race and everything to do with socioeconomic status and a system where police, judges, ect all look out for each other. It has to do with abuses of power on those most easily targeted with impunity. Our prisons are filled with people also grabbed not because of race, but because of their socioeconomic status at the bottom. They keep our prisons filled with the easiest to grab people to keep their jobs relevant while taking as little risk from maintaining their status quot. They also do the things they do to rob the people and keep their coffers full.

There may be more poor people of white complexion that are poor, but a higher percentage of people that are of black complexion are. These people are bullies using bully tactics. The numbers simply favor that targeting someone of black complexion is less risky. Percentages and numbers are neutral, the only racist thing here is why a higher percentage of people with black complexions are in poverty in the first place.

Black poverty has become what it is do to a racially disadvantaged past. It is why this profiling exists. Police corruption is a separate issue that just happens to prey upon this socioeconomic status for the purposes of keeping our prisons filled among the other terrible things they do.

For this to be fixed we need to both end police corruption, the way run our prisons, and the police judge buddy system, as well as helping the black community get out of the socioeconomic rutt they are stuck in. The first issues, the police and prison issues must be dealt with as a corruption issue, while the socioeconomic status is an exceedingly complex issue with an actual race oriented origin.

I agree with your thoughts on police corruption and the system being biased towards the lower classes. This goes without saying. However, I disagree with your assessment that black poverty today has anything to do with the past racial injustices we faced - at least not as a main driver.

The biggest driver of poverty today in the black community is the break down of the family unit. This breakdown started in tandem with LBJs war on poverty (a la liberal welfare policies). The black out of wedlock birth rate in 1960 was just over 20%. It is now nearly 75%. You can not blame this three fold increase on racism / discrimination.

It has been studied till the cows come how raising children in single parent households exponentially increases poverty, lowers educational attainment, crime, etc. There is not one study which will show that a child raised in a single parent household benefits (unless you consider the odds of being a rap star or pro-athlete a benefit). This is not to say that ALL children who are raised by single parents grow up as failures, but there is an extremely high correlation to lower overall achievement.

Until this family issue is addressed, you will continue to see a higher concentration of blacks in poverty, crime, and thus in more contact with the justice system.

Even if we were to magically fix the police issue, we will still be left with the World Star Hip Hop cultural dysfunctional that plagues the lower class black community today.

a reply to: Edumakated

To be fair I stated that the black poverty is a complicated issue with some actual racial prejudice based roots. Complicated usually means not just one thing.

To pretend racism is not a part of it is dishonest. It's part of how things got where they are, and not all of that racism is even white on black racism, some is the reverse and black on white racism as well. It's all very complicated. So complicated that anyone who tries to blame any one thing on it is being exceptionally dishonest.

a reply to: interupt42

There is an apparent agenda at play with the MSM and in my opinion its not to end racism in this country nor to focus on the real problems or solutions.

Or it could be simple, short-sighted greed.

I can tell you my actual experience with some police is they are harder on poor people, black or white. That's what me and my friends experienced first hand in the 1980s.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Reporting white on black crime the most often, when it occurs less often than black/black crime ( more often ) fuels racial tensions.

That depends on the crime. Whites do more white collar crime by a wide margin, simply because more white collar workers are white.

originally posted by: Edumakated
as long as it isn't taken by a white cop.

So yesterday afternoon, a 9 year old kid was gunned down on the southside of Chicago in an alley. Just another dead black kid killed by other black kids. No social media. No Al Sharpton. No Deray McKesson. No buck dancing, bojangling preachers in zoot suits. No marches. No comments from President Zero saying if he had a son.

Numerous witnesses, but snitches get stitches...

I'm sick of the black community's hypocrisy and victimization cult.

It is stuff like this that makes the BLM movement minstrels a laughing stock that no one takes seriously. This is not to say police brutality doesn't matter, but it shows how out of touch these fools are with reality. Chiraq has claimed 432 murders year to date. 76% of the deceased are black. Not a peep.

Nine Year Old Killed

Yes such violence is a problem.

But it doesn't take anything away from BLM addressing POLICE targeting of African Americans, which is the issue they have been focusing on.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Gryphon66


Police corruption itself has nothing to do with race and everything to do with socioeconomic status and a system where police, judges, ect all look out for each other. It has to do with abuses of power on those most easily targeted with impunity.
.

i beg to differ. its everything to do with race. a wealthy black male will get shot as easily as a lower class black male in the same context.

you can take a successful black doctor who happens to be commuting to work and gets off at a station near the hospital he works at, and gets killed by police because he looked 'suspicious' (or black). [true story]

it doesnt matter what car this doctor drives, if he accidentally locks his keys in his car and yanks on the door in frustration, he may die (i have seen more far fetched and true scenarios, i wont bother youtube links...).

to say statistically, it has nothing to do with race, is more than dishonest; its ignorant and naive.

there are people who are afraid to go to 7-11 near their house around in OC CA (richer area) at 2am and get a slushy because they cant sleep or just want something to drink, simply because of a lingering thought of certain death due from pre conceived notions and prejudices. those people, (me, with a nice Mercedes-Benz, and other black males in different economic class) have one thing in common, wearing a hoodie in sweater weather can get you killed. one less thing you probably worry about.
if a 'concerned' citizen calls the police and say there is a suspicious person near that 7-11, and didnt give a good description, I'd like to have you stand at one end of the entrance and ill stand at the other and see who the police approach, and if i have my headphones on and facing the opposite direction and cant hear the police ask me to put my hands up, for whatever reason, i have and 97% chance of dying with my strawberry slushy in one hand and the other hand in my pocket. Im the suspicious person automatically, it doesnt matter if i click my alarm off and the police see a love E class gets unlocked, my chances of dying for fitting in the context are the same, rich or poor.


you can google whether or not im exaggerating.

a reply to: odzeandennz

It's profiling. Sorry you're both wrong and right. You're right in that it's because you're black, but you're wrong as to why that matters.

This is how profiling works, is basic math, if any of these facts are wrong, stop me,

A: Someone with black complexion is a more likely be poor or from a poor neighborhood. A higher percentage of blacks are these things.

B: Someone who is poor or from a poor neighborhood is more likely to be desperate and resort to criminal activities. This includes selling drugs, ect which allows for better vehicles, ect.

C: Cops and others do not have intimate knowledge of where one gets their resources, could just as easily be a stolen vehicle, or from selling drugs.

All of the above comes together to simply by basic math make it more likely the person of black complexion is the criminal in any scenario where this is in question.

Is it fair to those who commit no such crimes and are upstanding citizens that are black? No it is not, but it's how profiling works.

If the situation was reversed AND instead, the majority of whites were in poverty and thus all the above applied, while blacks were not, it would be the whites fitting this profile.

Profiling is math. Because of basic math based on facts, blacks are more likely to be the criminal if there is no other information to go on.

That being said, the reason this profiling is so applicable, and if you have even the slightest bit of honesty you realize it is, is because of a racist past, and an economy that has left so little room to escape poverty that much of the black community is stuck in this position. There's very little to move up to from where they start, and it's been this way so long, most feel defeated from day one, and as a result a culture has formed within the black community around this very poverty. This pushes more blacks into crime, as many have come to believe, and not completely wrongly so, that crime is pretty much their only ticket to material well being.

The black community has been and is wronged, but profiling is basic math that only applies due to all the other wrongs that have both put the black community in this position, as well as the self-defeating culture that grew due to the inescapable nature of their situation.

Now sadly, due to profiling, more blacks get targeted, often unfairly since they've done nothing wrong. Which further ingrains in the black community an us verses them mentality. Which causes more blacks to become angry, and rightfully so, which turns more towards crime, which further creates a cycle.

It's all exceedingly complicated. But anyone who says it's just racism can't see the forest for the trees.