Goodbye Middle Class, 2014 SSA wage info.

originally posted by: Justaposter
Oh such a young one you are. If you were were actually all growed up, you would realize that sometimes you do what you have to do. PERIOD.

Sorry, I don't believe it's reasonable to expect people to sell out their future in order to meet the needs of their present. That's something I strongly believe in and practice myself such as going homeless so I could pay tuition rather than rent for my first degree.

Explain to me how "valuable on the job experience' didn't happen?

I would have to know the jobs, but the typical "career" path these days is something along the lines of supermarket cashier, into Walmart greeter, into barista, into coffee shop manager. That's not developing any skills.

a reply to: netbound

I'm in a similar position. My profession will probably last slightly longer because I'm on the gaming side of things but it's still software development, fortunately for me I've diversified a little bit with various technologies beyond just programming (motion capture, 3d modeling, mathematics, and web development) but tech changes quickly and I have a long career ahead of me once I finish this final degree I'm working on.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: MystikMushroom

You keep posting that, almost as if you're trying to convince yourself of it, too.

I'm not buying it.

Unfortunately, he's right. Where we once required mental, physical, and community to survive the western world now only requires mental. However, the mental has become an exercise in politics and backstabbing. Who can out maneuver or cheat the other people. While business and law students take one course on ethics it seems to be something that is severely lacking in the legal, business, and government worlds.

The community has perhaps suffered the most and has been it's biggest toll on human beings. We need community as a species and yet it's very hard to find one. Even in the last bastion of "community" - churches, you are hard pressed to find a true community as most have turned into places to network for political and business contacts.

These days surviving to most people is a comparison in who has a larger house or bank account, perhaps a better car. Things that are meaningless the direction we are heading.

Compassion is something that people post about on the internet but rarely practice in their own life. Prayers are sent out on Facebook and other social media as meaningless shows of hope - "look I'm doing something." Actually, no you aren't.

a reply to: WCmutant

The community has perhaps suffered the most and has been it's biggest toll on human beings. We need community as a species and yet it's very hard to find one. Even in the last bastion of "community" - churches, you are hard pressed to find a true community as most have turned into places to network for political and business contacts.

Don't give up on community yet. I was blessed with an amazing gift last week when my elderly mother and I, who is not any spring chicken, was stuck with a large task that required strength, and a lot of time, for two old broads.

My mother had to go to Home Depot to pick-up some additional items we needed. She said she made a general comment, "I need help." She said she didn't even remember saying it out loud. Well two gentlemen happened to be walking pass at the time, and one heard her comment.

I learned later from Joe that he hadn't heard my mother say anything, but his friend heard her. He said when they where in the car about to leave, Jeff said, "I have to go back and talk to that lady". Joe said he didn't know which lady he was referring to, so he asked him “what lady"?, Joe said Jeff told him, that lady said she needs help. He said Jeff was relentless, he said he had to go back to talk to my mom.

When my mom got home, she told me that two men were going to come and help us. I was very surprised, and to be honest, I didn’t think anyone was going to show up. Jeff and Joe came to the house and I have never seen two men work so feverishly, joyfully and professionally. Especially without asking for payment. They not only did a beautiful job, they didn’t cut corners or skimp.

They said they help out at the local church, and they had some down time so they came to help. The church where they are members is a very large church and neither my mother or I are members. I told them that we are not members of their church and my mother isn't even the same denomination. I explained I believe in God, but I don't believe in any religion. They said it didn't matter we are all God's children, and he loves us all.

This is the way it used to be when I was a girl. If someone in the community needed something, we all pitched in and helped, especially the old folk and they children. Half the time, the person with the need didn't even have to ask. If one person knew there was a need, the community came together to help, as much as they could. I have not seen this level of community and kindness in over 60 years.

So don't give up. There are still a lot of good people hiding among us, and we still have a chance of pulling a rabbit out of hat, yet. We just have to support each other, and be the change we want to see. That is how we grow our numbers.

Listen people, when you do not make enough the goverment steps in with YOUR tax dollars and subsidies that person ( welfare, food stamps, insurance ect ect) That is Corporate Welfare. The rich keep money and tax payers make up the difference. So keeping the minimum wage low causes that and rich keep getting richer and the largest seperation of wealth in the history of the world is what your left with. Minimum Wage should follow inflation at a minimum. Around $11 bucks as of today.
Why does the economy boom several years after wage increase if it's so horrible.... Turn off Fox and Friends and use your head and do some research.

it`s simple math, there aren`t enough jobs for everyone to be employed and there certainly aren`t enough jobs for everyone to have 2 jobs.
you just have to work at a crappy job until someone retires or dies so you can move up a notch,unless you die first in that case you spent your whole life working at a crappy job.

originally posted by: burchfield
Listen people, when you do not make enough the goverment steps in with YOUR tax dollars and subsidies that person ( welfare, food stamps, insurance ect ect) That is Corporate Welfare. The rich keep money and tax payers make up the difference. So keeping the minimum wage low causes that and rich keep getting richer and the largest seperation of wealth in the history of the world is what your left with. Minimum Wage should follow inflation at a minimum. Around $11 bucks as of today.
Why does the economy boom several years after wage increase if it's so horrible.... Turn off Fox and Friends and use your head and do some research.

Actually, minimum wage would be about $24 today if it kept up with inflation. Since the CPI changes of the early 80's, the inflation rate for wages has followed CPI numbers while the cost of goods hasn't.

If you make under that, you have less purchasing power than someone on minimum wage had in 1980.

a reply to: Tardacus

I see signs up all over the place for jobs. Granted the retail jobs are for holiday seasonal work,... it is a job.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
I like your post, NightSkye, and couldn’t agree more.

Life has become so terribly complicated, and it’s changing at such a blinding pace, I think we’ve become numb to it all. We just expect change to happen and fall in line, not ever questioning anymore where it may be leading us. We’ve come to feel powerless over the BIG MACHINE that now rules us. Talk about a cluster-f*ck!

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if maybe we’ve passed the point of no return, and we’re just kidding ourselves by thinking we actually have a choice anymore. It may be that back when we were still able to, we made all the wrong choices and sealed our fate.

I guess you gotta be careful what you ask for...

originally posted by: sociolpath
Monthly Living wage, bare minimum in US:

1 bedroom apartment rent: $600
Electric bill: $50 ($120 in winter if electric heat.)
Food: $150
Cell phone $45
Car insurance: $75
Car fuel/oil: $100
------
Total monthly: $1,020

So considering you make the 29 hours a week and work 4 weeks a month at $10 an hour that's $1,160 a month. In my state they tax 20% out of your paycheck.

$1,160 -20% = $928 monthly income

WE ARE STILL SHORT 40 OR SO DOLLARS TO PAY THE BASIC LIVING EXPENSES!

in the USA nobody will hire you without a PHONE, and "RELIABLE TRANSPORTATION" unless you are fortunate enough to live within walking or biking/public transit of the job.

Pull a second job, they take out %20 from that paycheck. You now being taxed 40% of your income if you have two jobs that's why they are a burn out and not many people can pull off two jobs at once.

Firstly, you should need to learn math. If you have two jobs in which both of them you pay 20% for taxes, you are not taxed 40% of your income, but still 20% . Example, you earn 1000 dollars at both jobs and pay 20% tax, which is 200 dollars taxes paid on both salaries. You earn 2*1000 dollars = 2000 dollars and pay taxes 2*200 dollars = 400 dollars. 200 is 20% of 1000, 400 is 20% of 2000. 40% taxes would mean you had to pay 800 dollars rather than 400 out of the earned salary of 2000 dollars.

Secondly, you do forget some crucial expenses from your list:

- Healthcare insurance (+ possible medications if one has some disease (not random illness, but something that is and stays)
- Water bills (one needs to wash their clothes and dishes, use toilet, drink water, use it for cooking etc
- Some small amount needs to be always saved for emergencies (like sudden illnesses, medications needed, crucial everyday items braking down)

I am not American, so I do not know all the laws so well, especially the health insurance ones. but this can definitely not be the bare minimum.

a reply to: smirkley

Getting a second job can have devastating results for person health, costing far more in long-term - everything comes down to individual characteristics, especially brain and body chemistry, as well as psychological profile and environment. Some people can make it, majority can not. In the end working too much is short term gain, but long-term loss. Majority of diseases, health issues come out long-term when one is older and additional stress, unhappiness, overload causes it.

In addition to that, recently a study was made which showed that working over 55 hours a week provides losses rather than gains for the company and country due to sick leaves, productivity loss, extra stress and additional factors.

Sweden recently tested out as social experiment a 30 hour workweek in one city (in public sector) with pay remaining the same and in the end it provided financial gain for the country due to employees being more productive, less stressful, being happier (due to having more time for family/social life). The results were incredible.

a reply to: Cabin

Yes you make very valid points. And you are not incorrect.

Its called the brass tax. And guess what, I am currently considering a little holiday extra- curricular income producing activities myself. Holidays and such you know. I aint ashamed nor is it beneath me to do what I wish to do.

Health?,... whatever. Pretty much everything nowadays takes its toll anyways.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: smirkley

So you think working two jobs should be a requirement to making a living wage?

I'd like to point out the irony in Smirkley's post regarding the requirement of working two jobes to make a living wage.

I'm not saying people should be above it. However, historically there was a severe shift in the USA from a one-income household to a two-income household. From the 1950s until mid to late 1970s the majority of US families were one-income. Today we know that's not the case.

Approximately 59% of families with children are dual income families, as of 2012. Great read regarding the "working poor" - Link.

But we skip over the income and household changes that have transpired over the last 60 years. To many of us not born in the 50s and 60s our current situation is "normal." This is part of the problem.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn
You nailed it right on the head . If you spend more than you earn " NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU EARN " you will always be broke even if you are earning millions every year. What is considered the poverty line today in western countries is a joke. The poor in less developed countries can only afford one meal a day and live in a straw hut or tin shed with three or four generations of their family living there. They also have no tv no computer no cell phone etc etc Many do not have electricity or running water and their lives do not mean anything to the governments of their countries.

The living standards in all western countries were simply unsustanable from what we had in the seventies and early eighties and have been falling since then and will continue to fall further. When manufactoring come back to the western countries the jobs will not as many of the new manufactoring plants will be automated and will instead need fewer better qualified people to run them. To earn a decent living education is becoming a must have. Also good communication skills and the ability of having good convincing skills is becoming far more valuable ( both skills honed on ATS ) Becoming comfortable of is not as hard as is seems and their are many books such as rich dad poor dad that spell out the ways to become at least comfortable if not rich if followed.

a reply to: WCmutant

Point taken, but I never stated the "requirement" as such.

I did state if you want more, you need to work more or improve your value.

a reply to: smirkley

You live in a fantasy world.

originally posted by: BrokedownChevy
a reply to: smirkley

You live in a fantasy world.

Why thank you. I like to think so too. Especially while I observe "this world". Cant wait for the next one. It might be better.

The thing about ATS is people sit here and go back and forth like at any other website about issues, people who don't honestly have an understanding of how things actually work.

I don't mean to accuse anyone of being ignorant, but most people who don't think they are, actually are very much so.

I do not exclude myself from this category (ignoramus) and accept the fact I don't know everything in the world like so many seem to think they do (narcissists)....

There is a book which explains it if one were to break from habit and develop an attention span longer than 8 minutes or so.

An American Prophesy THE FOURTH TURNING, What Cycles of History Tell Us About America's Next Rendezvous with Destiny.
By William Strauss and Neil Howe.

Tired of this thread and the nonsense, it's like watching Jerry #ing Springer...

Out.

a reply to: WCmutant

That shift toward two income households came when women demanded equal rights and were led to believe they actually needed them and got them.

They didn't get exactly what they expected when they got their freedom or whatever it was they were going after, like anyone else fails to realize until it is too late.

The PTB saw an opportunity to let women think they were gaining something when in actuality, the PTB gained a potential 100% gain in the work force and could, in a way, freeze wages right there.

It is very much more complex than that, but everything is just another scheme any more.

Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.

Tired of this thread and the nonsense, it's like watching Jerry #ing Springer...

Out.

Welcome to forum dynamics at its best

In.

The way I see it, the Chinese manufacturers target their competition with lower prices because they have cheap labor and can afford to wait them out. After their competitors go out of business, that makes more unemployed people who end up having to buy the cheaper brand [usually something else made in China] because money is tight. As the American dominoes fall, the overseas manufacturers get stronger. In twenty years if you try and open up a business to go against them, it'll be like putting a general store next to a super walmart. If anybody has a plan, now might be a real good time to put it out there.