What I think Of Chemtrails

a reply to: mrthumpy

I would suggest then setting of volcano's on strategic geographic locations.
Then global warming is taken care of and I have back my clear skies, because of airplane flying restrictions.
Win/win... woohoo!

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: network dude

Did some research on SRM's, and indeed to be succesful, it would need planes flying in the stratosphere.
Too high for commercial aircraft, so that rules out geo-engineering plot.

Right, so what are you left with?

I asked about flight tracking software on your phone before. You likely missed it. I use flight aware. I can hit the "search" and then "nearby flights" and see all the planes, their origin and destination, altitude, speed, their carrier, their route, and call sign. So I can identify most planes leaving a trail or not. Seeing a bunch of commercial planes leaving trails will make you think a bit about how a plane, that must be profitable to continue to exist, could deviate from it's mission of hauling people and luggage, to somehow spraying (something) that would likely precipitate out in hours, and not be noticed by anyone in the flight process. I doubt it could.

But, the scientific explanation for contrails that has been around for almost 100 years seems to fit the narrative of what we all are seeing. I just don't know why people like you try so hard to make it a conspiracy. Aren't there enough "real" problems out there without manufacturing new ones?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: network dude

Did some research on SRM's, and indeed to be succesful, it would need planes flying in the stratosphere.
Too high for commercial aircraft, so that rules out geo-engineering plot.

But, the scientific explanation for contrails that has been around for almost 100 years seems to fit the narrative of what we all are seeing. I just don't know why people like you try so hard to make it a conspiracy. Aren't there enough "real" problems out there without manufacturing new ones?

This is what gets me. They're trying to solve a murder mystery when there isn't even a missing person.

Some conclusions so far on this thread:

Contrails after the mid 1990's dissipate slower (as much as 24-36 hrs) due to upgrading jet engines to high-bypass turbofan engines.
See stosh64

Modifying engines/fuel additives are not possible due to strict regulations/monitoring or technical restrictions.
See waynos and Zaphod58 and ManFromEurope

Geo-engineering (specifically Solar Radiation Management) isn't a possible explanation.
see network dude and mrthumpy
Although, I still think all the contrails block out the sun on ground level anyway, which annoys me if I want to spend an afternoon in the sun.

Atmospheric conditions can vary so much locally, that some aircraft create heavy contrails, while others create none.
See waynos and Zaphod58

Still, while explaining how obvious and logical all the contrails/grids and basically at some days blocked skies are scientifically, nobody seems to mind this is happening nowadays.
If I understand it correctly, the only way would be to reduce airtraffic, so we might appreciate our sunny days again.

originally posted by: Tyrion79
Still, while explaining how obvious and logical all the contrails/grids and basically at some days blocked skies are scientifically, nobody seems to mind this is happening nowadays.

Not so. The impact of persistent contrails and contrail induced cirrus has been studied for at least fifty years

If I understand it correctly, the only way would be to reduce airtraffic, so we might appreciate our sunny days again.

There are methods for contrail mitigation, it just requires the impetus to make it happen

a reply to: network dude

I haven't even got a smartphone (by choice), so answer is none.
I did view some online sites in the past with realtime airtraffic (everything with transponders), behind my desktop.
Compared it to what I was seeing in the skies and it didn't add up.
However, military planes for example will not show up obviously on civilian accessible sites.
I've seen aircraft in the sky not following a flightpath, but instead turning to fly a grid pattern in the past, however I have no proof other than seeing it myself.

originally posted by: Tyrion79

If I understand it correctly, the only way would be to reduce airtraffic, so we might appreciate our sunny days again.

if it really bothers you, I suggest moving to a new location. it's not going to get any better, and with more people, and more flights, it can only get worse.

Planes need to fly in the part of the sky they do for efficiency reasons. Any lower, and they would burn more fuel. So contrails are going to be a reality until we find a new way to move that many people, vast distances.

The Tropics don't have the same conditions other areas do, so less trails there. (plus you have all the sunny days and beaches)

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: network dude

I haven't even got a smartphone (by choice), so answer is none.
I did view some online sites in the past with realtime airtraffic (everything with transponders), behind my desktop.
Compared it to what I was seeing in the skies and it didn't add up.
However, military planes for example will not show up obviously on civilian accessible sites.
I've seen aircraft in the sky not following a flightpath, but instead turning to fly a grid pattern in the past, however I have no proof other than seeing it myself.

Really? I don't have much problem tracking flights, but you have to remember that they can be a lot further away than you might think. Up to 200 miles on a good day!


(Edit: I don't have an app either, I use the playback feature when I get to a PC)

a reply to: network dude

Ok, I'll consider moving to Easter Island or any place out of the way then...
Seriously, where could one move to nowadays, without leaving civilisation?

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: network dude

Ok, I'll consider moving to Easter Island or any place out of the way then...
Seriously, where could one move to nowadays, without leaving civilisation?

Hawaii doesn't have much flyover traffic so they don't see many trails

a reply to: mrthumpy

Hmm, I would like the climate there , I'll put Hawai on my list of places to relocate to.

a reply to: mrthumpy
Those are some very interesting links you provided there.
Especially the second one which suggests, that contrails actually CAN be used to reduce warming.
I'd like to see some response into that subject, with the new info given.
Thanks!

a reply to: Tyrion79

They're still trying to determine the net effect of contrails. They know the diurnal effect, thanks to 9/111, but there wasn't enough data to show the net effect. The only way to do that accurately is another grounding lasting longer.

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: mrthumpy
Those are some very interesting links you provided there.
Especially the second one which suggests, that contrails actually CAN be used to reduce warming.

Can you quote that bit because it doesn't quite tally with this bit

Contrails reflect sunlight back into space and cool the Earth but they also trap infrared energy in the atmosphere, adding to warming. Researchers believe that the warming effect is more significant than the cooling.

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: mrthumpy
Those are some very interesting links you provided there.
Especially the second one which suggests, that contrails actually CAN be used to reduce warming.
I'd like to see some response into that subject, with the new info given.
Thanks!

It's been looked at, but the science is still not 100% understood. We know that heavy cloud cover will block sunlight, giving a net cooling affect during the day, but will hold in heat at night, giving a net warming affect. So the difference between the two (diurnal range) would be the net affect. Our only chance to study that (with regards to contrails) was in the 3 days after 9-11 with no commercial air traffic. Apparently that wasn't enough time to get the big picture.

Caymen Islands, south America, places near the equator are less likely to have contrails. So a warmer climate will give you what you are looking for. I wasn't trying to be mean, but as I said, for most of us, the skies filled with trails is going to be the way things are. Enjoy the nice days and make the most of them.

ETA:
great minds think alike. (luckily I have been around these great minds and am able to blend in seamlessly)

a reply to: mrthumpy

You're right, it doesn't necessarely mean to reduce warming, however it does impact local temperatures.
What impact could the increased infra red have on are surroundings?

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: mrthumpy

You're right, it doesn't necessarely mean to reduce warming, however it does impact local temperatures.
What impact could the increased infra red have on are surroundings?

Increased temperature

a reply to: Tyrion79

What amazes me is how some people just take the blocked skies for granted, because it's scientifically explainable.
You might find comfort in it, I do not.

So exactly what other way is better than scientifically explainable?

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: waynos

I agree, however cars on ground level allow for easier testing by independant researchers, than airplanes in the sky.

But air tests are still air tests. It was air tests that exposed VW, not direct testing of the vehicles or their exhaust.

originally posted by: Tyrion79
Some conclusions so far on this thread:

Contrails after the mid 1990's dissipate slower (as much as 24-36 hrs) due to upgrading jet engines to high-bypass turbofan engines.
See stosh64

I actually disagree with this particular conclusion. If RHI is low, ain't no engine gonna make a trail at all, much less make one persist. The high bypass engine is more likely to create a contrail than a turbojet, where conditions are borderline, simply because the bypass engine is pumping out more water in a cooler, more voluminous exhaust. But if the weather conditions are such that any jet trails are quickly sublimating, so will the trail from the bypass engine because they don't use different physics. When trails persist, they all do (different conditions at different levels notwithstanding)

Modifying engines/fuel additives are not possible due to strict regulations/monitoring or technical restrictions.
See waynos and Zaphod58 and ManFromEurope

Not so much not possible, more undesirable and not possible to hide.

Geo-engineering (specifically Solar Radiation Management) isn't a possible explanation.
see network dude and mrthumpy
Although, I still think all the contrails block out the sun on ground level anyway, which annoys me if I want to spend an afternoon in the sun.

I agree generally, though looking at it logically, not quite so much as, on days conducive to trails persisting and spreading, it's impossible to say there wouldn't have been a covering of natural cirrus even if planes were all gliders.

Atmospheric conditions can vary so much locally, that some aircraft create heavy contrails, while others create none.
See waynos and Zaphod58

Yes, and everything in between. The one I watched this lunchtime (in a sky dotted with big clouds, contrail webs and blue sky) was an Air Canada 777-300 en route to Toronto which was leaving a vast thick contrail wider than its own wingspan (common) this then became a dotted stop-start line and then stopped altogether.

A believer watching might very well say they saw a chemtrailer stop spraying, though why Air Canada would carry chemtrails from Frankfurt and drop them on Rotherham, making sure they stop before Manchester, at 32,000ft is anyone's guess :-)

Still, while explaining how obvious and logical all the contrails/grids and basically at some days blocked skies are scientifically, nobody seems to mind this is happening nowadays.
If I understand it correctly, the only way would be to reduce airtraffic, so we might appreciate our sunny days again.

I think the effect is being somewhat overblown. I could have really illustrated this today if I'd had my camera as a vast cloud covered 1/3 of the sky and a vapour cloud from nearby cooling towers covered 50% of the remainder while, in a gap between them, an apparently hair thin contrail was left by a passing jet.