Our Civilization does'nt need us all to work. Now what?

One of many reasons Capitalism is failing is because we can produce everything we need with very few of us. We don't need us all to work. We just don't seem to want to admit that as we progress technologically, that most of us will be jobless. How do we manage that in a world based on Capitalism and competiveness in earning a living?

Not only that but computers and robotics are going to make this even worse. If any of the Fusion reactor designs start producing unlimited cheap energy we will have machines doing nearly everything. What then?

How will you feel about having to give up capitalism? Not like people will forever allow only a few to enjoy the riches our civilization is producing.

Walmart could almost exist with zero humans involved already...most computer programmers are just reproducing the same code over and over with minor adjustments, except in very limited circumstances like "Rocket Science".

What is next for us? Seems like some sort of socialist system is almost going to be forced on us except it will be machines doing the work and most humans will just sit back and be consumers.

Are you ready for everyone to have equal stuff?

a reply to: Xeven

Capitalism does not need to be tied to current production or requirements.

Entrepreneurs will always create new markets, products and services that will enter into the supply and demand market.

If in a 100% service environment there will be persons who are better than others, thus increasing their demand.

The economy as is only exists because the governments support it's existence. The governments themselves cannot exist without the economy and the economy would not exist if not for the governments. I think what you mean is that "society" doesn't need everyone. The truth is that the government needs everyone. It needs everyone participating in it's false economy in order to sustain itself, as it's grown too large. The truth is that the economy doesn't exist. It's a figment of our imagination. It only has value because we are told it does, we believe it does and we continue to live as if it does.

Humans can exist without the economy as it currently is. There is more than enough resources to support all mankind peacefully, while also being able to combine efforts towards common goals such as producing infinite energy, space travel, and conflict resolution on a global scale.

We chose not to exist in that way. We chose to let the false economy dictate our lives. Society needs everyone, but no one needs modern society.

The unfortunate truth is that humanity is not salvageable. Too docile and too brain washed to make the necessary changes for a healthy, efficient, and productive global civilization. The only way to fix this now is with a reset button. Whether a natural one or a man made one...

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

True, but in a 100% service environment the people have to be able to feed, clothe and house themselves from their income.

If no one can afford a product, the companies can't sell any products.

a reply to: Xeven

Generation after generation of parents say that they work hard so their children can have a better life than they did. Well, when the time comes that their children can live a better life, and not piss away their lives working as much or hard, they're called lazy.

We can eliminate need and poverty now. In around 100 years, we could become a recreation and knowledge oriented society. We could become a society in which the jobs left that need a human touch are done out of nothing more than a desire to perform those jobs.

The only thing holding us back is the ugly human conditions known as greed and narcissism.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Agreed, and after a certain point isn't all just an obsession over numbers on a bank statement?

What practical difference is 34 million to 28 million? How much more improved is your life by having those extra few million? What changes for that person with a few less million? What can't they now afford? What sacrifices do they now have to make?

As I said, after a certain point it becomes an obsession over seeing larger numbers on a bank account.

a reply to: Xeven

we are here today for personal reasons that might change bigtime in the distant future

a reply to: EternalSolace

Yes to everything you said!

a reply to: Xeven

I think the major reason our capitalist system is ailing is because too many are not able to compete in a free market economy. They are locked in a socioeconomic cycle of poverty and under-education thanks, in part, to a social welfare system that throws money at the problem instead of investing in the people held back by it. If we invested our tax dollars in those people, we would be making education/job training accessible, and anyone receiving long term social assistance would be required to set personal goals for themselves and work towards them...or perhaps pay back some or all of the expenses they have used.

Of course, an investment in the people would have to be broader and more creative than just that. There are children who suffer psychological trauma that need more than just eduction.

I think capitalism inspires excellence, so I support it. But the system is broken because too many are unable to compete. It's a tough problem that needs smart solutions.

One thing is for sure, the 'elite' do not want an American populace able to compete with them in a capitalist economy. Nope. They do not.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
If no one can afford a product, the companies can't sell any products.

Then supply and demand takes over and the price of the product comes down.

a reply to: Xeven

I've been gone quite a while, and it is evident that this site is full of socialist trolls now. What world do you live in that no one has to work? Go witness a morning rush hour in NYC, LA or DC sometime and tell me about all the people who aren't working because of... robots or whatever you're suggesting. By the way, capitalism is NOT failing - government is killing it with high taxes and wall street is killing it with one financial bubble after another. FYI, wall street does not equal capitalism. Wall street is a parasite on capitalism, IMO.

Your post is clueless socialist tripe, nothing more.

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

They didn't say no one has to work, now did they? They said:

We don't need us all to work.

You're right that capitalism hasn't failed. It's just run its course as we're at the end of needing capitalism. THat's why it's been twisted and distorted by people trying to milk it for all it's worth in light if its coming end. It has nothing to do with socialist/capitalist agendas. What it has to do with is the realization that the need for manual and skilled labor is decreasing on an exponential level.

a reply to: Xeven

Its only going to get worse as the singularity approaches.

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot
Very true, Wall Street is a parasite on capitalism but you forgot the end. Wall Street and capitalism is a parasite on the working classes.
Look again at history and it will educate you. All of todays problems stem from the industrial revolution. The middle of the 19th century when it started to kick in employers (farmers, industrialists, bankers and governments) thought they had a chance to make more money then ever before. That was the biggest understatement. Whether on a farm or in a factory machines were being invented to make manual labour redundant. Now comes the biggest con ever to be perpetrated on the working man and the con is still running.
With these new machines the employers said"with these machines they will make your life easier and you will have more leisure time". But instead of paying the employees some of the money these machines generated the employers suddenly realised "we can sack all the workers and the money we pay them we can keep for our selves". And from that point on you had millionaire industrialists and poor workers. Now you insert leisure time with idlers.
And for you who talk about the idlers doing nothing. What's your answer to millionaires doing nothing.
Oh, they earned their money so they are entitled to do what they want with it.

Get a Job Hippy!
well, people of like mind can get together, start advanced communities that produce their own power, food, and life needs within a mile of their homes and use their free time to discover themselves, improve the world, and reach toward a better tomorrow

You create a non-working middle class as they did in England in the Victorian and Edward eras. These people lived off small incomes from annuities.

Of course, it requires a lot of social pressure to make this work. But perhaps government pressure could be applied as well. For example, you'd pay a much lower tax rate if you lived only off an annuity. Or you could get higher interest rates. They could also offer lower mortgage rates. Because a non-working middle class is easier to maintain if they own property.

A non-working middle class also frees up work for the lower classes, allowing them to move into the middle class. However, if you make the lowest class non-working that creates more poverty.

It's one possible solution. And it has the benefit of having been done before.

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

So capitalism isn't failing it's other issues that cause it to fail?

Hmm sounds like... Communism?

The irony is insane. Communism gets corrupted and everyone wails that it's an unfeasible system that could never possibly succeed. Same thing happens to capitalism but it's not capitalisms fault! It's everything BUT capitalism!!!

And people don't even realize how stupid they sound.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Then supply and demand takes over and the price of the product comes down.

You're arguing logically against an illogical, emotions based position which depends on an abdication of personal responsibility and is deeply rooted in "I should be able to do something easy to me and which I enjoy and make all the money I need doing so." The only way to break free of this downward spiral of zero personal responsibility, envy, and covetousness is to allow the present system to fail, taking out the safety nets and the Meal Ticket alongside it. Slap America upside the head with a very simple, but very dire scenario: "Work or no pie for you."

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

When has that actually happened? People just go into debt or work two jobs these days. I can't think of anything that has gone down in price...and wages have certainly stagnated and my buying power is certainly less. It doesn't seem like demand is down either.

Demand isn't the same thing as ability to afford. You can still want something and find ways to pay for it.

Crime, for instance is one way of affording something you have a demand for.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Much of that is because America has manipulated capitalism and the free market via subsidies, welfare, and handouts. Corporations realized their bottom lines would be hurt, so they encouraged redistribution from the middle class to the lower classes to perform two things:
1. Give the lower class the finances needed to shop at Walmart
2. Remove enough of the middle class's purchasing power to make sure they have to bargain hunt at Walmart.