Why is Jesus a Conservative?

a reply to: grandmakdw

Personally, I don't think Jesus would have voted. It wasn't His mission. The Jews turned against Him because they expected the Messiah to be a politician/conquering king like David who would deliver them from the Roman Empire. Jesus really didn't address it much at all. He did address the corrupt expression of the Pharisees, but mainly preached the message of individual salvation and how to survive as a spiritual/Godly person in the times a person might find him or herself.

To me, this indicates that Jesus was not here to take sides in our human political games. Those are ours to play. Of course, if we all lived the way He told us to, whatever -ist or -ism we supposedly had wouldn't matter, but most people think they don't need Him, only the -ist or -ism to compel everyone to live correctly. In other words, people know better than God, and so long as that's the way of the world, no -ist or -ism will ever work.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Klassified

Christians are supposed to live their faith. For some people, that's all it take to "project" our beliefs on them. Those are typically the same people who can't seem to understand that faith does not end in the pews on Sunday.

Understood Kets. But this...

Are you going to tell me that you have never sinned in your life? If so, I'd call you a liar. No sin is any worse than another. So why don't you take a seat and reflect on what that means. We are all sinners. Christians aren't immune to this--so stop lying to yourself. Don't judge others.

...is not living your faith. It is projecting your faith on others, expecting them to abide by, and answer to the same set of beliefs and convictions you do. "Don't judge others"? Like he just did?

a reply to: ketsuko

Good answer, thank you.

a reply to: Klassified

Some things are sin no matter what you choose to call them.

What do you call murder? It's a sin. What do you call lying? Is it right? If not, it's a sin. Just because you use a different word to make yourself feel better about it doesn't change the fact that you like still view some things as wrong, morally and ethically. To get offended because you use a different word, not sin, doesn't change the fact that we still look at those acts in much the same way.

I think you are mistaken in thinking that the concept of sin is purely a Christian invention which doesn't exist in other religions.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Did you know that during the civil war,
it was the Republicans that fought to
free and slaves and the Democrats
who wanted to keep slavery legal ?

Actually, yes, I know that!!

And - the parties switched platforms after that. They have swapped places.
Did you know that?

It's pretty common knowledge among sociologists.

a reply to: ketsuko

I agree with you.
Thanks for a well written response to the OP

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Klassified

Some things are sin no matter what you choose to call them.

What do you call murder? It's a sin. What do you call lying? Is it right? If not, it's a sin. Just because you use a different word to make yourself feel better about it doesn't change the fact that you like still view some things as wrong, morally and ethically. To get offended because you use a different word, not sin, doesn't change the fact that we still look at those acts in much the same way.

Now you are justifying it to make yourself feel better. When the word is used in relation to religious belief as the poster I quoted did, it is clear what is meant by it, and it is clear what the poster was saying. You can't play that game with me. I read your posts. You're way too smart not to understand what I'm talking about. Now who is splitting hairs?

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
I think you are mistaken in thinking that the concept of sin is purely a Christian invention which doesn't exist in other religions.

I'm not sure if you're addressing this to me, but I never said it was purely a Christian invention. It predates Christianity, and is a concept thousands of years old, rooted in religious ideology. Though there was a moon god named Sin.

But that is sidestepping the reason it was addressed in this thread to start with.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: grandmakdw

So you think ALL Christians are misogynistic, homophobic, gay haters? You just defined your self as judgmental, bigoted, prejudiced, and Christophobic with those statements. Let's not forget highly intolerant.

I don't think all Christians necessarily fall under that umbrella, but their bible certainly does.

Prove it with the words of Jesus, not the Old Testament, but with the words of Jesus.
You have to know that Christians believe that the words of Jesus supersede anything written in the old Testament.
Many Christians say they are not Pauline Christians, that is follow the words of Paul.

All Christians follow the words of Christ, so if you want to respond to ALL Christians and give your message to ALL Christians, and prove to ALL Christians how misogynistic, homophobic and gay hating Jesus teaches them to be, then
Find the words of Christ himself saying misogynistic, homophobic, gay hating things. If you don't know how to find them, there are bible with red letters (the red letters are the words of Christ). Or check online for the actual words that Christ said. These words only exist in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and a few in the early part of Acts.

That is the ONLY way you can prove your contention.
As a Christian who has spent many years in the military I have been close to all "brands" of Christians and can point you to the only biblical words that ALL Christians agree upon.

a reply to: Klassified

I'm just saying that words are words. When we get down to brass tacks, on a lot of things, most people are going to agree - this is wrong even if we don't agree on what terminology or philosophy to explain why it's wrong.

Lying, cheating, stealing, rape, murder, etc. ... all those things most of us are going to agree are wrong just on general principle.

An atheist may seek to explain why through a philosophical underpinning and ethical explanation whereas a religious/spiritual person is going to look to more esoteric reasoning and use words like sin.

But does that really make us so very different? And should that offend you when someone explains what is really a commonality using a different reasoning than your own?

a reply to: grandmakdw

You wrote: QUOTE "All Christians follow the words of Christ, ...find the words of Christ himself saying misogynistic, homophobic, gay hating things...."

Actually there is a current of anti-gentile racism in some words placed into the mouth of a Greek speaking Jesus in the Gospels (see Matt chapter 15) - NB: the term 'dogs" is a common pejorative for 'gentiles' in the Dead Sea Scrolls which were still being copied out during the lifetime of 'Jesus' :

Matthew 15:21 ff
"Then a [gentile] woman of Canaan came out and cried to him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us... and he said, The Bar Enasha ('the son of man') was sent ONLY to the elect of the lost sheep of the house of Israel... and anyway, since when would it be right to take the bread of the children out of their mouths and throw it to the dogs under the table? "

From a 21st century standard, that's racist-Zionist language where you have one group calling themselves the 'chosen people/master race' and everybody out side the group called 'the non chosen people'i.e. gentiles...i.e. us and them...

Morover 'Jesus" had no mission to the gentiles ('goyim') : see

Matthew 10:5
"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: "Do not walk among any of the Goyim ('Gentiles') or enter any town of the Samaritans, but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel..."

So it could be argued from the words placed into the mouth of 'the good Rebbe' in the council approved gospels that "Jesus" was at the very least a racist-Zionist extremist.

As for sexual mores, we have no body of sayings that speak to it except some stray comments on marriage ('what the Most High has woven together let no son of man unravel...") and his stance on mental-adultery ('any man who even looks upon a woman with lust in his heart has committed adultery with her...") and of course hi8s apodeictic stance on the subject of Divorce (where his position is alarmingly conservative for those days : divorce is not only unthinkable but re-marriage is equated with adultery !).

Since Saul of Tarsus ('Paul") never met Yeshua in the flesh (only in dreams and visions, like my cook), we follow the OP opinion to stick to the words placed into the mouth of the Greek speaking "Jesus" in the council approved Greek Gospels...




One hears the term 'anti-Semitic' being cast about in recent decades but never 'anti-gentilic', why is that?

a reply to: grandmakdw

Prove it with the words of Jesus, not the Old Testament, but with the words of Jesus.

I love it when Christians move the goal posts when it suits them. Shame on you, Grandma. I will then ask a question of you. Why are billions of Christians vehemently opposed to gay marriage, and say that homosexuality is a sin, if Jesus was just fine with it? Where does that homophobia come from, I wonder?

You have to know that Christians believe that the words of Jesus supersede anything written in the old Testament.

Matt 5 - 17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished...
This says to me, that in fulfilling the law, by living a sinless life, Jesus became the embodiment of the law. Your sins are forgiven because of his sacrifice. But what constitutes sin hasn't changed. So what god pronounced as an abomination in the OT, is still an abomination, but you can be forgiven for it without sacrificing defenseless animals and people. Secondly, Jesus corrected certain certain tenants while he was here in the flesh. For instance, an eye for an eye. Are you telling me his silence on homosexuality nullifies god's view of it, and we can also strike everything Paul said about it? Why not tear out the epistles, and the old testament, and live strictly by what Jesus said then?

Many Christians say they are not Pauline Christians, that is follow the words of Paul.

Many in comparison to what? The overwhelming majority of Christendom accept the epistles as divinely inspired. When did individual Christians become arbiters of what is scripture, and what is not? No wonder there are thousands of sects, and even Christians can't come together as one group.

All Christians follow the words of Christ, so if you want to respond to ALL Christians and give your message to ALL Christians, and prove to ALL Christians how misogynistic, homophobic and gay hating Jesus teaches them to be, then Find the words of Christ himself saying misogynistic, homophobic, gay hating things. If you don't know how to find them, there are bible with red letters (the red letters are the words of Christ). Or check online for the actual words that Christ said. These words only exist in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and a few in the early part of Acts.

Nice deflection Grandma. See my above comment. Again. If Jesus was silent on any topic, he was cool with it. So Jesus had no problem with LGBT, or gay marriage. He also had no issue with slavery, rape, and a host of other issues either, then. Right?

That is the ONLY way you can prove your contention. As a Christian who has spent many years in the military I have been close to all "brands" of Christians and can point you to the only biblical words that ALL Christians agree upon.

Grandma, you know full well my background. Trying to use this argument with me is fruitless and disingenuous. When Christians throw away everything but the gospels, and stop moving the goalposts when it suits them, because they think the person they're talking to is ignorant, then we might get somewhere.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: grandmakdw

Prove it with the words of Jesus, not the Old Testament, but with the words of Jesus.

I love it when Christians move the goal posts when it suits them. Shame on you, Grandma. I will then ask a question of you. Why are billions of Christians vehemently opposed to gay marriage, and say that homosexuality is a sin, if Jesus was just fine with it? Where does that homophobia come from, I wonder?

You have to know that Christians believe that the words of Jesus supersede anything written in the old Testament.

Matt 5 - 17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished...
This says to me, that in fulfilling the law, by living a sinless life, Jesus became the embodiment of the law. Your sins are forgiven because of his sacrifice. But what constitutes sin hasn't changed. So what god pronounced as an abomination in the OT, is still an abomination, but you can be forgiven for it without sacrificing defenseless animals and people. Secondly, Jesus corrected certain certain tenants while he was here in the flesh. For instance, an eye for an eye. Are you telling me his silence on homosexuality nullifies god's view of it, and we can also strike everything Paul said about it? Why not tear out the epistles, and the old testament, and live strictly by what Jesus said then?

Many Christians say they are not Pauline Christians, that is follow the words of Paul.

Many in comparison to what? The overwhelming majority of Christendom accept the epistles as divinely inspired. When did individual Christians become arbiters of what is scripture, and what is not? No wonder there are thousands of sects, and even Christians can't come together as one group.

All Christians follow the words of Christ, so if you want to respond to ALL Christians and give your message to ALL Christians, and prove to ALL Christians how misogynistic, homophobic and gay hating Jesus teaches them to be, then Find the words of Christ himself saying misogynistic, homophobic, gay hating things. If you don't know how to find them, there are bible with red letters (the red letters are the words of Christ). Or check online for the actual words that Christ said. These words only exist in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and a few in the early part of Acts.

Nice deflection Grandma. See my above comment. Again. If Jesus was silent on any topic, he was cool with it. So Jesus had no problem with LGBT, or gay marriage. He also had no issue with slavery, rape, and a host of other issues either, then. Right?

That is the ONLY way you can prove your contention. As a Christian who has spent many years in the military I have been close to all "brands" of Christians and can point you to the only biblical words that ALL Christians agree upon.

Grandma, you know full well my background. Trying to use this argument with me is fruitless and disingenuous. When Christians throw away everything but the gospels, and stop moving the goalposts when it suits them, because they think the person they're talking to is ignorant, then we might get somewhere.

I am not moving any goalposts.
I am pointing out the ONLY places
where you can find the ONLY things that
ALL Christians can agree on.
If Jesus never said it then not all Christians will agree.

Christianity is based on, oh yea, Jesus.

Christianity was born with, oh yea, the words (and person) of Christ.

So in order to prove your point
you must find the things you claim Christians
are doing that are awful and terrible using the words of Christ himself.

And yes, the New Testament does supersede the Old Testament.
All Christians agree on that one.

If you have the background you claim (whatever that is),
you know that there are Christians who say that Pauls words and writings
are not to be considered gospel or absolute truth,
because they are not the words of Christ.

So the challenge stands,
find the words of Jesus that are misogynistic
or tell people to be misogynistic
Find the words of Jesus that hate gays or are homophobic.
I'll even make it easier, find examples of where
Jesus behaved in a misogynistic way or homophobic way
as an example for Christians to know how to behave.

Find where Jesus, the core and foundation
and only pure source of Christianity taught
or demonstrated to Christians to be misogynistic or homophobic.

That is the only way to prove your point to ALL Christians
of every denomination and every persuasion and even the
"stay at home Christeasters" who say they worship
better on their own or on the golf course or in the woods.

The words and actions of the founder of the religion
and the foundation of the religion is the only way
to prove how misogynistic and homophobic Jesus was
and taught his followers to be.

So prove to me that Jesus said or did misogynistic
and homophobic things
and I'll openly agree with you that JESUS taught
ALL Christians to be misogynistic and homophobic.

Actually, if you are unaware there is a huge movement
in Christendom to live and practice according to
the words of Christ alone,
yes that movement exists and is growing.

You also should know there is a huge anti-Pauline
movement in Christendom.
You are saying "all Christians" or "all of Christianity"
then you only have the words and actions of Christ to prove your point.

If Christ did not address something,
then we really don't know His stand.
That is probably why I and most Christians
I know aren't homophobic or hate gay people,
oh yea, Christ did address that, He said to LOVE everyone.
Ooops he did speak on it.

P.S. (addition) Sorry, I really don't know your background,
please share it with us.

You also know from my writings that I am not homophobic
and don't care at all who marries who, that is their business,
not mine, and I'd say 95% of my many many Christian friends
are like me, don't care what people choose to do
as long as they don't harm others or try to force us
to believe as they do, in nothing. And I am (gasp) an evil Christian!

Almost forgot: Everything was accomplished when he died
and I believe (even if you don't) he rose again.
He said on the cross, "It is finished",
or some scholars say he actually said "It is accomplished."

You also know that Jesus said people could eat anything,
against the Old Testament;
he also "worked" on the Sabbath by healing people,
which made the religious people of his day angry
because it was against the Old Testament law,
he ate with Prostitutes and the unclean
which was against the Old Testament.
He touched lepers which was against the Old Testament rules.
Guess all that makes for a really awful bunch of followers doesn't it?

originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Hey you Bible Bashers!
Do you have an answer to me question.
I have been reading the New Testament, and I really can't find any evidence that the beloved Jesus you so admire would have ever voted for Bush or Donald Trump. In fact, I don't even belive he was homophobic.
In fact, I don't think he was misogynistic or a gay hater.
Can you prove me wrong by posting scriptures that support capitalism and slavery which actually came from Jesus's mouth?
I think the early disciples showed more left wing leanings tbh.

It seems to be a theme here to attack Christians, conservative Christians.

Who cares who Jesus would have voted for?

There has been a theme among Christians to "attack" anyone who is not, for 2000 years.

Sincere question: What is a conservative Christian, and is it biblical?

You are too gracious in only including Christians; there are many others that practiced the same fatal 'disinterest' in others dogmatic belief systems.

I never thought much about conservatism or liberalism, or Republican or Democrat, in regards to Christianity.

Or Capitalism, since many if not most Christians are poor, in the sense that they are not Cadillac liberals.

But I imagine most liberals would not turn down the Cadillac either.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Hey you Bible Bashers!
Do you have an answer to me question.
I have been reading the New Testament, and I really can't find any evidence that the beloved Jesus you so admire would have ever voted for Bush or Donald Trump. In fact, I don't even belive he was homophobic.
In fact, I don't think he was misogynistic or a gay hater.
Can you prove me wrong by posting scriptures that support capitalism and slavery which actually came from Jesus's mouth?
I think the early disciples showed more left wing leanings tbh.

It just shows you how things change when you get a bunch of carrot pullers in charge.
However I don't think Jesus had much input to the Bible first hand, which gives the Bible a distinct advantage to the carrot pullers in the interpretation, which is something of a fait accompli against Jesus in other ways.

a reply to: grandmakdw

I am not moving any goalposts. I am pointing out the ONLY places where you can find the ONLY things that ALL Christians can agree on. If Jesus never said it then not all Christians will agree.

First. I would remind you, I said the bible, not Jesus words by themselves. A statement I stand by. That said...

Evidently, you are among the very small percentage of Christians that believe the way you do. Every Christian I know(and I know many) say homosexuality is a sin, and gay marriage is wrong according to the bible. They also believe women are to be submitted to men, the same way the church is in submission to Christ. Though they don't live what they're telling me. Yet you say neither is true, if I'm understanding you correctly. You're telling me that everything in the epistles, and the OT, is incorrect if Jesus didn't address it. I hope you don't mind. I'm bookmarking this discussion for the next Christian on ATS that tells me homosexuality is a sin, as well as gay marriage. But I have to ask you, what the hell is wrong with the rest of Christianity if your small group believes the way you do, and hundreds of millions of Christians across the world don't? Why are they all so up in arms over these things then?
As to all Christians agreeing on Jesus words. I think you know that isn't true. I've seen Christians berate each other right here on ATS over what Jesus meant by what he said, or didn't say. However, I will agree that most will at least tell you that Jesus words reign supreme, even if they can't agree on what he did or didn't say.

So in order to prove your point you must find the things you claim Christians are using the words of Christ himself.

No. Actually I don't have to. I said the bible, and I meant the bible as a whole. Not Jesus words alone. You don't get to dictate what can, and cannot be included as "proof". Nor can you speak for over 2 billion Christians who believe the bible as a whole, rather than ripping out everything but Jesus words to keep from having to admit the bible is misogynistic and homophobic. Most of them believe their whole bible is inspired by god, and use the old, as well as the new in their faith. Granted they, like you, cherry pick what they like, and throw the rest out, but that does not change the fact, it is there in black, red, and white.

P.S. (addition) Sorry, I really don't know your background, please share it with us. You also know from my writings that I am not homophobic and don't care at all who marries who, that is their business, not mine, and I'd say 95% of my many many Christian friends are like me, don't care what people choose to do as long as they don't harm others or try to force us to believe as they do, in nothing. And I am (gasp) an evil Christian!

One Man's Journey
There's much more in my posts across ATS, but this is it in a nutshell.
And this quote of your post is more like it. This is how I wish all Christians thought. Faith is a personal thing. And unlike the anti-theists, I have no desire to see peoples religious freedom extinguished. As long as it remains personal, I don't see the issue with people believing in whatever deity they choose.

Almost forgot: Everything was accomplished when he died and I believe (even if you don't) he rose again. He said on the cross, "It is finished", or some scholars say he actually said "It is accomplished." You also know that Jesus said people could eat anything, against the Old Testament; he also "worked" on the Sabbath, which made the religious people of his day angry because it was against the Old Testament law, he at with Prostitutes and the unclean which was against the Old Testament. He touched lepers which was against the Old Testament rules.

What you have stated here is why I believe if Jesus existed, there are a lot of words attributed to him that he didn't say. There are things in the gospels that just don't sound like something he would have preached or taught. He did the things you mention on the one hand, and yet condemned people to hell on the other. Something is wrong with this picture.

Whatever the case, interesting exchange grandma. I learned some things about you today I didn't know, and they were good to hear. We are both equally obstinate. And that's not always a bad thing.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: grandmakdw

I am not moving any goalposts. I am pointing out the ONLY places where you can find the ONLY things that ALL Christians can agree on. If Jesus never said it then not all Christians will agree.

First. I would remind you, I said the bible, not Jesus words by themselves. A statement I stand by. That said...

Evidently, you are among the very small percentage of Christians that believe the way you do. Every Christian I know(and I know many) say homosexuality is a sin, and gay marriage is wrong according to the bible. They also believe women are to be submitted to men, the same way the church is in submission to Christ. Though they don't live what they're telling me. Yet you say neither is true, if I'm understanding you correctly. You're telling me that everything in the epistles, and the OT, is incorrect if Jesus didn't address it. I hope you don't mind. I'm bookmarking this discussion for the next Christian on ATS that tells me homosexuality is a sin, as well as gay marriage. But I have to ask you, what the hell is wrong with the rest of Christianity if your small group believes the way you do, and hundreds of millions of Christians across the world don't? Why are they all so up in arms over these things then?
As to all Christians agreeing on Jesus words. I think you know that isn't true. I've seen Christians berate each other right here on ATS over what Jesus meant by what he said, or didn't say. However, I will agree that most will at least tell you that Jesus words reign supreme, even if they can't agree on what he did or didn't say.

So in order to prove your point you must find the things you claim Christians are using the words of Christ himself.

No. Actually I don't have to. I said the bible, and I meant the bible as a whole. Not Jesus words alone. You don't get to dictate what can, and cannot be included as "proof". Nor can you speak for over 2 billion Christians who believe the bible as a whole, rather than ripping out everything but Jesus words to keep from having to admit the bible is misogynistic and homophobic. Most of them believe their whole bible is inspired by god, and use the old, as well as the new in their faith. Granted they, like you, cherry pick what they like, and throw the rest out, but that does not change the fact, it is there in black, red, and white.

P.S. (addition) Sorry, I really don't know your background, please share it with us. You also know from my writings that I am not homophobic and don't care at all who marries who, that is their business, not mine, and I'd say 95% of my many many Christian friends are like me, don't care what people choose to do as long as they don't harm others or try to force us to believe as they do, in nothing. And I am (gasp) an evil Christian!

One Man's Journey
There's much more in my posts across ATS, but this is it in a nutshell.
And this quote of your post is more like it. This is how I wish all Christians thought. Faith is a personal thing. And unlike the anti-theists, I have no desire to see peoples religious freedom extinguished. As long as it remains personal, I don't see the issue with people believing in whatever deity they choose.

Almost forgot: Everything was accomplished when he died and I believe (even if you don't) he rose again. He said on the cross, "It is finished", or some scholars say he actually said "It is accomplished." You also know that Jesus said people could eat anything, against the Old Testament; he also "worked" on the Sabbath, which made the religious people of his day angry because it was against the Old Testament law, he at with Prostitutes and the unclean which was against the Old Testament. He touched lepers which was against the Old Testament rules.

What you have stated here is why I believe if Jesus existed, there are a lot of words attributed to him that he didn't say. There are things in the gospels that just don't sound like something he would have preached or taught. He did the things you mention on the one hand, and yet condemned people to hell on the other. Something is wrong with this picture.

Whatever the case, interesting exchange grandma. I learned some things about you today I didn't know, and they were good to hear. We are both equally obstinate. And that's not always a bad thing.

I'm glad you agree that Jesus never taught his followers
to be any of the awful things that many on ATS
attribute to Christians and Christianity.
HE is the one we follow, and HE is our example.

There are people in every group:
atheists/anti-theists/agnostics/and yes in religious groups;
that are evil and are bad and twisted
and influence others to be the same;
every group that exists on the face of the earth,
yours (whoever is reading this yours)
has evil bad and twisted people in it.

I find it excruciating evil when people say all Christians are
(name the twisted meme of the day),because they
are accusing many many innocent people
and causing others to hate them.

That is my goal to fight the intolerance, bigotry, prejudice,
and yes hatred that is spewed in the name of tolerance
by many on ATS.
Expect me to keep fighting.

There are some here who truly hate me
for standing up for the many many Christians
who are good and generous and loving
and are maligned daily on ATS. It is a quest of mine.

I know some will make fun of me and taunt me and disparage me
and call me mean, etc., I am getting quite used to that.

But I will continue to stand up for Jesus, the real Jesus,
the one whose words that those who hate him refuse to read and
only fall for the twisted words of others with bigoted preconceptions.

I don't care if you are an atheist, and anti-theist, an agnostic,
that is your choice, in our society everyone knows of Christ
and has made their choice and I will respect their choice.

I do however get quite angry when zealots in these groups
try and convert me to their way of thinking,
especially when they do it by saying the worst things possible
about those I love and care deeply about, my fellow Christians


P.S. My challenge to you was to show me where the things
you attribute to Christ and his followers can be found in
red. I believe you said it could be found in black, white and red.

a reply to: grandmakdw

That is my goal to fight the intolerance, bigotry, prejudice, and yes hatred that is spewed in the name of tolerance by many on ATS. Expect me to keep fighting.

But then, shouldn't you also be correcting those Christians who are bigoted, prejudiced, and spew hatred in the name of Jesus? Why have you not stood up and told other Christians that Jesus said nothing about gays and misogyny? Why have you not stood against Christian intolerance? I also notice that you haven't said homosexuality is not a sin, even though I have left openings for you to do so. You have also conveniently dodged my other inquiries and reasoning.
Is homosexuality a sin?
Is gay marriage a sin?
Are women to be in submission to their husbands?
And what about slavery?