It Comes out of the Abyss

How is it possible to share mysteries that are being fulfilled to a blind people who direct their hope to human institutions and have been blinded by religious institutions?

It may not be possible to really do so, not to everyone. And just as there are many false prophets and prophecies abounding, there is true prophecy that is unfolding and being revealed.

One of these has to do with the most important issue now at hand, who will rule the earth?

Now, Satan is the ruler of the world, and he has been exposed as being behind the powers that be. It is at his behest the world’s governments have been arming themselves since 1914, continue in conflict, and are also gathering together, in opposition to God.

At the end of World War I, then known as the “Great War” it was proclaimed by many that it was ‘the war to end all wars.’ But how miserably that prediction has turned out to be.

In Bible prophecy we are shown the march of world powers, and how that Great War would lead to the rise of a scarlet-colored wild beast.

That beast was ridden by a harlot.

Here is the prophecy about that beast, and the woman riding her:

(Revelation 17:7, 8) . . .So the angel said to me: “Why is it that you were amazed? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns: The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. . . .

That beast, just as the other beasts of prophecy in Revelation and Daniel is political in nature. It was revealed to God’s true servants who it was during a very pivotal time in human history.

At the end of World War I a League of Nations was formed, supposedly to keep peace on earth. But that peace was broken, not long afterward, and World War II broke out and the League was basically in a state of inactivity. In “the abyss” you could say.

It was during the time of the fulfillment of the words, that the beast was, but “is not” that this prophecy was correctly understood by God’s people.

In 1942 the world stage was in shatters, it raging in the Second World War of human history. Many imagined that Armageddon would follow, and there would never be peace again. But what of God’s people?

They predicted that the League of Nations was that scarlet-colored wild beast in Revelation 17, and that the woman riding her was organized religion. That it “is not.” That is, at that time, it was in a state of non-existence, but that it would then rise out of the abyss. And that the renewed “United Nations” at the end of the war would lead people away from God, and that the Vatican and the RCC would have an influencing role in her politics.

During at broadcast to tens of thousands of people on September 20, 1942, the following was stated:



The United Nations was recently visted by many of its members’ heads of states, and they gave their speeches, and even the Pope, from the Vatican, gave his speech there.

Since its rise out of the abyss, after World War II it has not created or established world peace. And religions of the world have not done anything to help mankind find peace.

They are all in opposition to Jehovah God, and he has already shown us that the new order that was established is indeed directed by superhuman demonic entities, bent on destroying humankind.

Yet that “peace beast,” will turn upon and destroy the harlot, false religion, all organized religion that have pagan roots that stem from her mother Babylon, and rightly therefore she is called “Babylon the great.”

There will be a unique universal cry of “peace and security.” What that will be, at this time is not known, at least, not to me. When it happens, discerning Bible students will realize that this is the sign that marks the end of this wicked system, starting with Babylon the great, the worldwide Empire of false religion.

For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them. (1 Thessalonians 5:2-5)

To conclude are these words of how that may come to take place:

The symbolic “ten horns’ (the member nations of the world organization for peace and security) will lose their passionate attraction to the harlotrous world empire of false religion and will gore her to death. In fact, the whole symbolic wild beast (now the United Nations) will cease to find satisfaction in their lustful relationship [false religion], and the mouths of the “seven heads” of the scarlet-colored “wild beast” will “eat up her fleshy parts.” To the whole “wild beast” organization, “ten horns” and all, she will become as a worn-out old harlot, no longer desirable for greedy, selfish use. Realistically, under stress of the global crisis, the political rulers, whose nations are members in the United Nations, will become hardheaded in the light of the worsening world conditions. Ignoring all sentimentality, they will be forced to take drastic, heartless action for the preservation of their political institutions and social, economic structure. They will see that the world empire of false religion is an international nuisance and a hindrance to their emergency operations because of the Babylonish religious beliefs, practices and customs.

The many gods and goddesses that Babylon the Great has worshiped will not come to the aid of the world empire of false religion, to save her from action by her former lustful paramours. Her former lovers, the political and military elements, will realize that those deities of Babylon the Great are helpless and have been of no saving powers to them when prayed to by the priests, chaplains, clergymen and religious potentates of the world empire of false religion. Those political and military elements will feel deceived, tricked, fooled and will lose respect for worldly religion. They will not have to turn Communist in order to “hate the harlot,” but will simply turn radical and thus be able to cooperate with “godless Communism” in doing away with the hypocritical religious organization. They will give her the treatment that was meted out to some harlots in ancient times, “completely burn her with fire.”—Genesis 38:24.

We can imagine what this will mean to the Vatican and its Basilica of Saint Peter, to the religious cathedrals, churches, mosques, temples, synagogues, shrines, and to other religious structures! We can imagine what is in store for those who officiate in impressive vestments in those religious buildings. Let not Christendom imagine that she will escape because she parades before the world in the name of Christ. She, too, has played the religious “harlot” like her mother, Babylon the Great. The friendship that she has cultivated and maintained with the political and military elements of this world will fail her. She will be shocked at finding that adulterous friendship with this world made her an “enemy of God” and of his Christ. (James 4:4)

Coming out of the abyss soon, if we don't do something about climate change, is a huge amount of sub-arctic methane.
Once the polar cap melts enough, and the flows of cold water change, there will be a release of methane that will cause an extinction level event.

Aren't you more worried about that?

Or would you rather spend your life wistfully wondering if "satan" is Iraqi?

a reply to: Badgered1

Totally off the subject of the OP.

But to satisfy your question, no, the situation the world is in today, it's environment being destroyed by greedy and ungodly men does not concern me. While I do my best to keep my environment clean, and do as little as possible to harm it more, I am not overly concerned by the horrible destruction mankind is doing to earth, which God gave them to take care of.

His word itself prophecies concerning those ungodly men, that God is going to "bring to ruin those ruining the earth." - Revelation 11:18.

Jehovah himself declares that he will step in and prevent mankind from destroying the earth. And his invisible kingdom government, in the hands of his son Jesus Christ will restore earth to paradise under peaceful conditions. At that time "the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron." - Isaiah 35:1.

You will give you attention to the wicked, evil, greedy, ungodly men, and they "will not be." - Psalm 37:10.

And then peace will rule in all the earth:

But the meek will possess the earth,And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

- Psalm 37:11.

I see a huge credibility issue here.

The source of the video cited above is the Jehovah’s Witnesses who were outed years ago for having involvement with the UN.

The Watchtower's secret partnership with the UN and the apostasy of Jehovah's Witnesses

It has now been 11 years since the Watchtower's secret partnership with the UN became public. Although Bethel hastily withdrew their membership they have never really come clean; instead, they lyingly claimed there was nothing to it at all. The facts speak otherwise. The implication is that the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses has committed an act of apostasy and brought Jehovah's judgment upon themselves.

For decades the Watchtower Society has denounced the United Nations as being a most evil type of organization, probably worse than all other government type bodies. Over and over they have condemned them and the former League of nations. Their people were to have nothing to do with them because they were controlled by Satan.

Surprise! Surprise! Guess who was a member in good standing from the time they applied for membership in 1991 untill some news reporter let the cat out of the bag just recently? For decades the Jehovah's Witnesses have condemned the United Nations as the Scarlet Beast of Revelation, but privately they were still affiliated to it. When he stumbled on their secret, the religious affairs correspondent of the Guardian uncovered a hornets' nest of recrimination amongst the faithful.

mmoutreachinc.com...

The UK’s Guardian News publicly exposed the Watchtower Society’s hidden UN-NGO status on Monday, October 8th, 2001 which resulted in the immediate-next day, voluntary withdrawal of the Watchtower Society from UN-DPI Association.

Thus in reality, all the while the Watchtower Society was condemning the Catholic Church for being NGOs with the United Nations, they themselves were at the SAME TIME hypocritically applying for membership as NGOs with the United Nations in the year of 1991!

www.yorww.com...

In 1992 the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society registered as a Non-governmental Organization in association with the United Nations, agreeing to publish educational information regarding United Nations programmes. This, in spite of the fact that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society teaches that the United Nations is the political puppet of Satan.

When this association was outed by a British news company in 2001 the Watchtower Society hastily canceled the association and provided distorted information to millions of Jehovah's Witnesses in order to cover their hypocrisy and deceit. Tami Dickerson presents the truth of the matter, uncovering the tactics the Watchtower Society used to keep the Jehovah's Witnesses in the dark, and the straight evidence that reveals the Watchtower Society's corruption.

www.commontruth.com...

It has been the final straw for many Jehovah’s Witnesses: Finding out about the involvement of Watchtower with the United Nations.

In a 1991 Watchtower, the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses publicly condemned other Christian religious organizations for aligning themselves with the United Nations. Why? According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, the United Nations “is really ‘the image of the wild beast,’ the visible political, commercial organization of ‘the god of this system of things,’ Satan the Devil.” In other words: Jehovah’s Witnesses accused Christendom of being apostates for their NGO status with UN.

Only one year later, the Watchtower Society, Jehovah’s Witnesses mother organization, became accredited to the United Nations as a non-governmental organization (NGO). This is how the United Nations have publicly described the relationship of Jehovah’s Witnesses with them.

The UN also said that members of Jehovah’s Witnesses would be “devastated” to find out about this relationship. The Watchtower Society hastily withdrew its membership and tried to discredit the Guardian report. When this didn’t work they falsely claimed the UN had changed its criteria for member NGOs. To date, the Watchtower Society has never publicly apologized to Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Jehovah's Witnesses United Nations Involvement: The Facts

Then in 1991 they declared that the nations that had given allegiance to the UN had given allegiance to “Satan’s world.” This is a very interesting comment because it was during this year that the Watchtower Society applied for association to the Department of Public Information (DPI), which was granted in 1992.

At first glance that may not seem to be very dramatic but as the official letter placed on the United Nations Website shows, such association was accepted on the basis that the Society agreed to, “Support and respect the principles of the Charter of the United Nations…”

The letter also states that association would mean that the Society, “Share the ideals of the UN Charter…”

All this leaves us wondering just how, “God’s Truthful mouthpiece”, as the Society believes they are, could have been party to such deception for 10 years. How can you sign an official document saying you will share the ideals of the UN Charter but write articles showing exactly the opposite?

reachouttrust.org...

In 1992, the Watchtower became an Associate NGO with the United Nations. This was despite spending decades condemning the UN as the scarlet coloured wild beast of Revelation. As a result, many Jehovah's Witnesses severed ties with the Watchtower for what they consider a hypocritical and dishonest chapter of the religion's history.

This involvement has stumbled many brothers due to:

• The double standard the Watchtower holds for itself when compared to its members

• Such membership being hypocritical considering the Watchtower history of condemning Christendom for doing so

• The dishonest information the Watchtower has released in attempting to explain the situation to its members

Due to the large number of enquiries for confirmation, the UN released letters verifying the association of the Watchtower.

www.jwfacts.com...

Doug Shields, who was a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses for twenty-three years BTW, wrote an excellent article on why the JW's wanted to hook up with the UN:

It gave them “rock star” status with certain developing nations as well as nations that refused to recognize Jehovah’s Witnesses as a religion (like France). NGO status is the ultimate “back door pass” for any organization looking to expand its power and influence in other UN member countries.

When you become an NGO member of the UN you suddenly get faster and better government cooperation, both here and abroad, regarding a host of things including building permits, tariffs, favorable trade status, taxes, legal status, recognition of rights, easier customs entry, easier shipping and receiving.

Just about everything a company does with regard to international trade becomes immensely easier when they apply for and are granted NGO status. I and many others believe that this was the reason why the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society took the calculated risk of joining the UN. As in most man made cults “the end justifies the means”.

This really gives you and I tremendous insight into the Jehovah’s Witness mentality. The article was never addressed or challenged by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. Yet if you or I ever bring it up to a rank and file JW they will say that it is utterly false or that it was simply a misunderstanding. There is also a high likelihood that they will accuse you and I of conspiring with apostates and abruptly stop the conversation.

The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society can do anything it wants to do and the rank and file simply won’t question it at all. The only thing that keeps their power in check is their need to be recognized by “the world” as a respectable religion. They can’t afford public relations nightmares anymore than any other publishing company.

Yes this “anonymity” and its cousin “plausible deniability” have both been quite useful to the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society for the past seventy plus years and will continue to be so. “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.” – The Wizard of Oz

thewatchtowerfiles.com...

a reply to: Murgatroid

This was recorded before the United Nations even existed.

The fact that he called it: "The United Nations" you imagine that it was.

That is not the case.

You should listen to it again.

And then realize what has happened.

What you have been told is to mislead you. Use your reasoning ability.

Remeber that this was in 1942, during WWII, when no one knew what was going to be the outcome, and no one knew the United Nations would emerge from it, except holy prophecy, and God's people.

You should also remember that Jehovah's Witnesses never have been involved in politics, and in WWII were persecuted in the United States, Great Britain, Italy, France, Germany, Japan, and hundreds of countries, and many times were executed and put to death, in the US, tarred and feathered, homes vandalized and burned to the ground, roped and hanged, jailed, among other things, for refusing to get involved in politics.

These are of the historic record.

To imagine the at people that suffered the world over to refuse to get involved with politics, and to this day, refuse to vote, and get involved in politics in any country they live in, work with the UN, is quite ignorant. Reject satanic propaganda, and look at historic truth.

I have seen your posts before and know you have a certain understanding of things. Perhaps that is why, you of all people have been mislead. I don't know you.

But we don't have to act like we don't know history.

And his words were true. You cannot deny, or can anyone deny it.

And that was decades ago.

Here on ATS, false prophets come and post their false prophecies every week, many among them, given them by demons. These prophocies are thousands of years old, and are in the process of fulfillment, and will come true.

And no one, but one people, with God's name, has been telling it to the world for decades.

originally posted by: JackReyes
And his words were true. You cannot deny, or can anyone deny it.

Considering the fact that the Watchtower's prophecies have had a 100% failure rate, I'm going to have to disagree...

Jehovah's Witness have claimed to be the only living "prophet" for years.

Ironically however, their track record proves that they are in fact fulfilling a prophecy in scripture...

"And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many." ~ Mat. 24:11

We give a partial list of the many dozens of false prophecies made by the Jehovah's Witness over that past 125 years. And the funny thing is that, even though every single prophecy they have made has been a false one, it has never stopped them from continuing to publish them.

Can YOU trust an organization with a 100% FAILURE rate? They are wrong on every, single prophecy that they have ever released...can you trust them with your ETERNAL DESTINY?

www.nowtheendbegins.com...

A person should be realistic about the ability of the Watchtower Society to interpret prophecy. To date there has been a proven time prophecy failure rate of 100%. As shown in the Dates section, the Watchtower used Bible prophecy to explain that the following dates were of significance; 1780, 1799, 1829, 1844, 1846, 1872, 1874, 1875, 1878, 1880, 1881, 1891, 1906, 1910, 1915, 1920, 1921 and 1925. Every single one of these interpretations is now admitted as wrong.

jwfacts.com...

Well, absolutely 100% of their prophecies had failed. Russell's "chronology" with the years 1799, 1874, 1878, 1881 and 1914, was all a thundering fiasco, but they would still be "The Truth" up to 1930.

corior.blogspot.com...

The Watchtower has claimed to be God's inspired prophet who gives prophecies under angelic direction and speaks in Jehovah's name (The Watchtower, April 1, 1 972, p. 1 97). Just as the Watchtower has been false in its prophecies, it is also false in its doctrines...in 100 years of giving prophecies the Watchtower has had a 100% failure rate.

www.believersweb.org...

There is another saving mechanism that the WT leans upon to deflect criticism from their dismal record of prophecy predictions: they actually say that they never claimed to be prophets in the first place. This is incredible because of the fact that have claimed to be God’s prophetic voice. Here is an excellent link which proves this.

I am often amazed at how anyone can be a JW when the Internet is overflowing with information that proves that this organization fits the description of a false prophet. The evidence supporting this is only a few mouse clicks away.

royspearsblog.com...

originally posted by: Badgered1
Coming out of the abyss soon, if we don't do something about climate change, is a huge amount of sub-arctic methane.
Once the polar cap melts enough, and the flows of cold water change, there will be a release of methane that will cause an extinction level event.

Aren't you more worried about that?

Or would you rather spend your life wistfully wondering if "satan" is Iraqi?

Climate change is a fraud and some leading scientists have admitted to this fraud. It is all about money.

Check your history and you will see this same scenario has occured numerous times in our past.

Climate change is fear mongering nothing more.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: JackReyes
And his words were true. You cannot deny, or can anyone deny it.

Considering the fact that the Watchtower's prophecies have had a 100% failure rate, I'm going to have to disagree...

royspearsblog.com...

You should actually take time to listen to the YouTube clip posted above. Then you'd realize how wrong you are. There is absolutely no way you can even defend your potion after listening to it.

originally posted by: JackReyes
You should actually take time to listen to the YouTube clip posted above. Then you'd realize how wrong you are. There is absolutely no way you can even defend your potion after listening to it.

The issue here is not whether or not Mr. Knorr's words were true or not.

What he says can easily be refuted and in fact already has been refuted (see citations below).

The real issue here is the FACT that the Watchtower's prophecies have had a 100% failure rate.

When you look at this in light of the fact that Mr. Knorr testified under oath in a court of law that the content of the Watchtower comes directly from God obviously there is something seriously wrong with this picture.

One does not understand propaganda by STUDYING propaganda.

If you want to really learn the truth about the JW’s I suggest you look at it through the eyes of those who have actually seen what goes on at the highest levels.

Raymond Franz for example who spent 60 years with them and served at the highest level possible or Doug Shields, who was a member for twenty-three years...

People are leaving in droves... it is painfully obvious to everyone who chooses to leave that the WT doesn’t have the truth, never had the truth, and is just making everything up as they go along. ~ Doug Shields

The nine years that I spent on that supreme body changed my whole attitude about the religion. I could see that they were not really governed by the spirit of Jesus Christ. ~ Raymond Franz

The US State Department was using the term United Nations as early as 1939. Franklin Roosevelt said in a radio speech on Jan 2, 1942 that they were forming a new organization, the United Nations. The Society did not predict it. It had been talked about publically since 1939. The Society did not apply this scripture to the League of Nations before 1942. After they realized that the UN would replace it than they came up with the application you quote. The intent to form the UN was public knowledge.

All these predictions about the King of the North and the King of the South, Anglo-American World power were all made after the fact. They did not directly say that the Allies would win WW2. The context is in no way clear on who would win WW2. Do we have "a world government" 66 years later? No, we have many separate nations. So the trend that Knorr spoke about wasn't plain and didn't happen.

Did the Society predict, in 1942 who would win World War 2?

Under the leadership of Nathan H. Knorr (1905-1977) the WT Society put away date setting for a time and switched to a different strategy. Since many of their teachings are easily refuted by key verses in the King James Bible, Knorr set out to publish a different Bible for Jehovah's Witnesses to use. The WT Society Bible, called the New World Translation (NWT), blatantly alters many verses that show the errors of Watchtower teaching. The single best example of this is John 1:1, which in the King James Version clearly declares Jesus' deity — "the Word was God." The WT Society denies the deity of Christ, so the NWT renders this phrase "the Word was a god."

Facts about the Jehovah’s Witnesses

In 1943, WT Vice President Frederick Franz, and President Nathan H. Knorr provided the following testimony under oath in a court of law that the content of The Watchtower comes directly from God. Cross-examination of Nathan Homer Knorr in the case of Olin Moyle v. WTB&TS, 1943, Section #4421, p. 1474.

Q. In fact, it [The Watchtower] is set forth directly as God's Word, isn't it?
A. Yes, as His word.

Q. Without any qualification whatsoever?
A. That is right.

Facts about the Jehovah’s Witnesses

a reply to: Murgatroid

I think you can create your own post if you want to diss someone or some religion.

Ignoring the OP and going off on tangents a few times really is against the TOS.

I don't really mind at all your opinions, and for you to have discussions about it. But can you please try to stay on the OP.

It's discussing the rising of the beast out of the abyss.

I really haven't seen you touch upon the OP once.

Really I don't mind your beliefs, or if you spread propaganda, and if you want to troll the JWs do it all you want. Just make another thread, or perhaps there is another thread out their you can go do it with already.

Anyway I wish a good day. And again, if you want to contribute to a conversation about the OP, I'm more than happy to do so with you.

To get the thread back on track.

The OP is discussing who the beast that ascends out of the abyss is.

According to my study and understanding, as mentioned in the OP, it is a political entity. This is because I have seen in prophecy that beasts many times refer to different nations and political entities.

For example, in Daniel 8 there is a vision of some fierce looking beasts given to him. And then it is later explained to him by the angel that those beasts represent different kingdoms:

The two-horned ram that you saw stands for the kings of Meʹdi·a and Persia. 21 The hairy male goat stands for the king of Greece; and the great horn that was between its eyes stands for the first king. 22 As for the horn that was broken, so that four stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from his nation that will stand up, but not with his power. - Daniel 8:20-22.

Now, this prophecy is interesting enough because of how accurate it was. It foretold the rise of the Medo-Persian Empire (Daniel lived during the reign of the Babylonian world power). Also the rise of Greece, and told us that the great horn in the goat that represented Greece was its first king (Alexander the Great).

Well, that just gives us a little indication that beasts in prophecy represent kingdoms.

And actually even the angel in Revelation tells us that the seven-headed wild beast does indeed represent different kingdoms, so this is not a blind assumption based off of misguided feelings. Rather, because of an interest in, and deep study of God's word. Here look:

The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. - Revelation 17:9-11.

So we see the seven heads of that beast are indeed different kings. Five had fallen. This as written in John's time, during the reign of the Roman Empire. The five world empires of Bible history before it would be: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece.

The one "that is" during his time was obviously Rome. And one more was to follow, that is the one we live in today, the Anglo-American duel world power.

And that beast that comes out of the abyss, that was but is not, it is also an eighth king. That king gets its power from the previous seven. And it is an image of the the wild beast.

That wild beast has 7 heads and ten horns. The ten horns represent all human rulership, since 10 in Revelation means something complete in an earthly respect.

Thusly we can ascertain that the United Nations is the wild beast that will turn upon and destroy the great harlot, as mentioned in the OP.

a reply to: Murgatroid

I reported your messages as trolling and also as off topic. But those who looked at my complaints, obviously did not want to remove them. Even though you are were very very obviously very off topic. All I said, was that you were off topic.

So, I will now get off topic and direct you to some of the governing body.

You ask me to go to some that know them. But I knew them and know them. I used to read to the President of the Watchtower Society, at night before he went to bed.


I know all of the people whom you slander, personally.

I did not say it before. I did not see the need.

But since those in charge will not remove the lies you have posted, simply because they are off topic, which they are. I will stand up.

Perhaps they will shut me down. It will not surprise me. Not at all. But since you want to know what some of them think and what it is like I will leave this:

What?

a reply to: JackReyes

originally posted by: JackReyes
I reported your messages as trolling and also as off topic.

Not only are those totally false accusations, you are accusing your opponents of what YOU are guilty of yourself.

Your above citation from a 'Watchtower Society' book without attribution is not only a blatant violation of the T&C's, it carries a mandatory 3 day ban on the first offense.

...if you post something that is not 100% your own writing or work you must use the QUOTE BOX TAG, post NO MORE THAN 15% of the original (or three paragraphs, whichever is least), and GIVE A LINK TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL.
If the work you are posting is not on the internet, from a book for example, you MUST give a credit for that Book ( the title), its Author and Publisher.

ALL MEMBERS READ - Posting work by others

a reply to: JackReyes

originally posted by: JackReyes
I know all of the people whom you slander, personally.

Jehovah's Witnesses are well known for accusing their critics of spreading slander and lies about their idolized organisation.

What are these lies specifically?

JW's never give specifics simply because that would expose who is actually telling the truth and who isn't.

One of the reasons that woke me up to the FACTs about JWs is that they print that its critics (apostates) spread false info about them . Yet they provide not one shred of evidence Zero.

Do Jehovah's Witnesses lie about their critics?

Isn't it interesting that Jehovah's Witnesses cannot explain WHY someone is wrong, or debate successfully without their Watchtower propaganda, without resorting to personal attacks, going after the character and motives of an individual whom they do not know and have never met? I see only one slanderer here. See how that works?

JWs: Are you allowed to read apostate Ray Franz's book, "Crisis of Conscience"?

JW’s won’t believe anything that conflicts with their own ideology. They have been programmed to ignore, minimize, disbelieve and demonize anything that conflicts with their world view. If they deem something to be a condemnation of their organization they will discount it out of hand as a lie, a con, a satanic conspiracy.

Well the fact that The Guardian newspaper released the story about the Watchtower’s UN NGO membership and were never sued by the Watchtower is pretty damning in my opinion. The fact that the Watchtower didn’t revoke their membership in the UN until just a few days after the article came out is also pretty damning.

Something as blatantly hypocritical as voluntary membership in the United Nations (The Wild Beast of Revelation) by Jehovah’s “earthly organization” is enough to throw any hardened JW into a tailspin so the Watchtower leaders soften the blow by spreading misinformation as to how this “mistake” happened. They spread lies about how some low level paper pusher at Watchtower headquarters was using the UN library for research and that somehow their NGO membership mistakenly got pushed through. Nothing is further from the truth.

The Watchtower leadership had to sign up for this and turn over their financials in order to gain membership in the UN. The documentation for such a task had to be signed and authorized at the highest level. There are quite a few hoops to jump through to become an NGO member of the UN and a lot of perks to an organization like the Watchtower, wishing to gain a foothold in foreign countries. As long as nobody knew of this “secret collaboration” things were quite rosy for the not so faithful or discreet slave. When the Guardian newspaper’s article hit the wire it was panic mode and damage control time for the FDS.

The Watchtower never came out publicly to explain their involvement in the United Nations. They never publicly confirmed or denied their membership. Instead they used their own private “channel” of misinformation to explain away, quietly, an act so hypocritical that even they couldn’t possibly explain it away publicly. People believe what they want to believe. There are none so blind as those who will not see. The clichés are too numerous to list. The fact is that unless a JW wants to see the hypocrisy of their own organization they won’t and no amount of documented proof will change that. Doug Shields

Are You Living A Lie?

originally posted by: JackReyes
But since those in charge will not remove the lies you have posted, simply because they are off topic, which they are.

What lies are you referring to specifically?

Is it not possible that these 'lies' are still standing because they might in fact actually be true?

Few JWs will never tell you what they really believe concerning Jesus Christ, because they know it will turn away many people from following them. JWs believe that Jesus Christ was Michael, the archangel, incarnate! That's right! JWs believe that Jesus was only an angel in the flesh, a god; but, not Almighty God. Thus, JWs deny that Jesus is come in the flesh, which makes them LIARS and ANTICHRISTS according to 1st John 2:22: "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

But you say, wait a minute, JWs do believe that Jesus came and died on the cross for our sins. No, JWs believe that Michael came and died on the cross, as a means of opening the door of salvation to all men. In fact, JWs believe and teach that Lucifer (the Devil) and Jesus (Michael) are brothers. Such demonic teachings are not found in the Word of God. Jesus came to this world as God Almighty in the flesh, the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16; 1st Timothy 3:16).

As PROOF that Jehovah's Witnesses are LIARS, the New World Translation (NWT) of the Bible, which the Jehovah's Witnesses use, ADDS the article "a" before the word "God" in John 1:1. So the NWT reads, "...and the Word was a God." Why, out of all the other religions and Bibles on earth, do only the Jehovah's Witnesses pervert this particular Scripture by adding the article "a"? The answer is because they are a false religion!!!

By the way, the JWs and Charles Taze Russell (JW founder) were sued for corrupting the Bible. Russell was also sued in New York city, back in the early 20th century, for selling magic seeds which were supposed to produce much more yield than ordinary seeds. The Department of Agriculture sued him and won. Charles T. Russell was a crackpot fraud, who founded the JW organization.

Jehovah's Witnesses LIE!

a reply to: Murgatroid

Check your inbox.

originally posted by: JackReyes
To get the thread back on track.

The OP is discussing who the beast that ascends out of the abyss is.

According to my study and understanding, as mentioned in the OP, it is a political entity. This is because I have seen in prophecy that beasts many times refer to different nations and political entities.

For example, in Daniel 8 there is a vision of some fierce looking beasts given to him. And then it is later explained to him by the angel that those beasts represent different kingdoms:

The two-horned ram that you saw stands for the kings of Meʹdi·a and Persia. 21 The hairy male goat stands for the king of Greece; and the great horn that was between its eyes stands for the first king. 22 As for the horn that was broken, so that four stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from his nation that will stand up, but not with his power. - Daniel 8:20-22.

Now, this prophecy is interesting enough because of how accurate it was. It foretold the rise of the Medo-Persian Empire (Daniel lived during the reign of the Babylonian world power). Also the rise of Greece, and told us that the great horn in the goat that represented Greece was its first king (Alexander the Great).

Well, that just gives us a little indication that beasts in prophecy represent kingdoms.

And actually even the angel in Revelation tells us that the seven-headed wild beast does indeed represent different kingdoms, so this is not a blind assumption based off of misguided feelings. Rather, because of an interest in, and deep study of God's word. Here look:

The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. - Revelation 17:9-11.

So we see the seven heads of that beast are indeed different kings. Five had fallen. This as written in John's time, during the reign of the Roman Empire. The five world empires of Bible history before it would be: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece.

The one "that is" during his time was obviously Rome. And one more was to follow, that is the one we live in today, the Anglo-American duel world power.

And that beast that comes out of the abyss, that was but is not, it is also an eighth king. That king gets its power from the previous seven. And it is an image of the the wild beast.

That wild beast has 7 heads and ten horns. The ten horns represent all human rulership, since 10 in Revelation means something complete in an earthly respect.

Thusly we can ascertain that the United Nations is the wild beast that will turn upon and destroy the great harlot, as mentioned in the OP.

Quoted to try and keep the thread on topic.