America is NOT a Christian nation, but is a nation built on the teachings of Jesus Christ.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

We have Christian quotes on morals from nearly every founding father. So it should be obvious they were influenced by Jesus. You don't quote someone who was no influence on you.

Most of them also believed in the philosophy of Plato, who was likely as much an influence as Jesus on the creation of our current system.

A Christian, including those like Jefferson who denied his divinity but accepted his morality, can do nothing but be influenced by Jesus in everything they say and do.

To say our nations beginnings were not influenced by Christianity is being willfully nieve.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
We have Christian quotes on morals from nearly every founding father.

Who cares? The Constitution, the actual basis of what the country is built on has nothing to do with Jesus and the Founders made sure that fact was very, very clear.

A Christian, including those like Jefferson who denied his divinity but accepted his morality, can do nothing but be influenced by Jesus in everything they say and do.

You cannot be a Christian and deny the Divinity of Christ. Jefferson made it quite clear he was not a Christian.

To say our nations beginnings were not influenced by Christianity is being willfully nieve.

Who said that? I was asking posters to back up their statements that our laws are Christian. Can you do that?

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

A candidate is “brought to light.” “Let there be light” is the motto of the Craft. It is one of the key words of Masonry.

Freemasons are emphatically called the Sons of Light, because they are, or at least are entitled to be, in possession of the true meaning of the symbol; while the profane or uninitiated who have not received this knowledge are, by a parity of expression, said to be in darkness.

www.masonicdictionary.com...

If you don't understand the Light in Freemasonry represents Devine knowledge there is not much I can do to help you understand.

In Christianity, Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit and the source of that Light of Wisdom.

Belief in God is a requirement. If a Mason is a Christian it is accepted that Jesus is his prophet. If a Mason is a Muslim it is accepted that Mohammed is his prophet. If a man is Buddhist it is accepted that Buddha is his prophet.

This does not mean that all Masons accept Jesus as a prophet, but they all accept that Jesus is a prophet for some. The Masons are secular, and teach religious acceptance, wich is part of the reason we have freedom of religion.

If you don't understand the Spiritual journey found in the Light of Freemasonry I suggest you are the one in error.

I have been an atheist mason for over 20 years. I think you have created a very narrow view of what things are. You seem to like to over simplify everything with a silly little label.

The American constitution was not founded on any Christian values whatsoever. It was based on the highest moral standards at the time. None of the language in any of the founding documents even remotely sounds like anything from the bible. Even christianity was based on previous thoughts and concepts. Christianity has no ownership of morality.

You might also look up the Iroquois Confederacy.
Here

a reply to: TheNewRevolution
Actually, our republic, and it's underlying democratic principles, were based on the Iroquois confederacy. Christianity certainly had some influence, but constitutional concepts were based on Iroquois law and ordinance. Link

ETA: Ah, I see you beat me to it Skid Mark. Well done.

If America is built on Jesus' teachings then it is built on many people's teachings as well because Jesus was not the first nor the only one to teach the philosophy of loving others and forgiveness. Jesus does not own love, equality, or forgiveness.

a reply to: neo96

People really do need to wrap there heads around there is NO difference between the church and state today.

There really never has been if you think about it. Religion is based on the same exact philosophy as government, that of man and not God. They were taken from the same mould, only one is wrapped in supposedly divine wrapping paper. Organized Christianity is no different from organized government.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: infolurker
If your asking for direct "Old Testament" implementation of law, I don't think any nation has had that for at least 2,000 years.

The Old Testament is not Christian.

How about this, are there any laws that are based on Christianity?

I think E.T., the character in the movie, summed up the teachings of Jesus pretty succinctly in his last two words in the film.
"Be good."

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

I doubt Jesus was much on their mind as they all kept and maintained an institution of torturous slavery


They were secular rich land owners NOT doctrinaire Christians or having religion in mind at all


Sure they had a bit of Western Christian influence since they were raised in a Christian doctrinaire environment.


But they were more influenced by the French revolution and Masonic elitism and aristocracy

a reply to: TheNewRevolution

There are Christian influences on our nation. Many people identify as Christians, and most of the people who formed the government were Christian. They did however write rules and laws to keep faith (whatever your faith may be) out of government functions. Where things get tricky is in how you interpret those influences that do exist. Kasich expanded medicare, medicaid and SNAP believing Jesus would want him to help the poor while in another state they cut SNAP due to a bible quote that says those who don't work don't eat.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The basic laws. Stealing, killing, slander, ect ect. All based on the Christian moral principle and essentially on the golden rule of Christ. “All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.” All laws and morality, whether conscious or not, is based on such a principle.

As for the Mason comment, no. Modern Masonic teachings do not teach that but when you trace back the roots of the Masons and look deeper into the teachings and actually look at the rituals of each ascension for what they are symbolizing, then there is no doubt about it.

a reply to: Skid Mark

I said it was built on the morality of Christ, I never said that such morality was followed. It is a pick and choose thing in our government, there are the good among the bad, the shepherds among the wolves as there forever has been in history.

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution
The basic laws. Stealing, killing, slander, ect ect. All based on the Christian moral principle and essentially on the golden rule of Christ.

Really? They are? You are aware that English law draws from older laws, including Roman, where theft and homicide were illegal long before Jesus showed up.

As for the Mason comment, no. Modern Masonic teachings do not teach that but when you trace back the roots of the Masons and look deeper into the teachings and actually look at the rituals of each ascension for what they are symbolizing, then there is no doubt about it.

'Rituals of ascension'? What are you talking about? You made that up just like you made up the 'claimed the divinity and prophet-hood of Jesus and the Christ within all of us' comment.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I am well aware that the laws come from older laws. Where do you think Jesus got his information from the first place? Regardless of the origins, they were taught as a collective from Jesus who is the center figure of Christianity which dominated the early United States and continues to dominate today. Their origin is debate for another topic entirely.

You need only do a Google search on Masonic rituals to know that I'm not making anything up. But for now here is a nice little link that provides lots of information. Duncan's Masonic Rituals

Is this a modern tradition? Probably not as the original intent of Masonry seems to have been lost in the name of networking and giving charity to communities, but if you take a moment to research the history of Freemasonry all the way up until the 19th century, is very different than Masonry today.

a reply to: neo96

I don't pray to much government, and ask for miracles such as an illness to go away or my crops to grow. I don't put faith that worshiping the government will secure my eternal soul a place in heaven after I die. There isn't an "American" heaven, and Ronald Reagan wasn't a prophet who is waiting for me in the afterlife. There are some similarities, but there are also some fundamental differences between government and religion. This is probably due to the fact that governmental systems through history have co-opted religion to use as a tool of control, blending it in with their government.

originally posted by: TheNewRevolution
I am well aware that the laws come from older laws.

Then how can they be Christian when they predate Christianity by a large margin?

You need only do a Google search on Masonic rituals to know that I'm not making anything up. But for now here is a nice little link that provides lots of information. Duncan's Masonic Rituals

There is nothing about 'ascensions' in Duncan's or the 'claimed the divinity and prophet-hood of Jesus and the Christ within all of us'.

The Founding Fathers were not Christian, but Freemason.
America was not built on the teachings of Christ, but a much older belief system which calls its self "Christan" but is the cult of Babylon. The Freemasons, being initiated knew this well, but the common people did not.
The Native Americans were culled, marginalised and treated in a shocking way by the interlopers. Does this show the love of Christ?
Thought not.