Huntsville police say public didn't help officer in need

a reply to: lifecitizen

Its irresponsible to expect a civilian to put themselves in potential danger.

It is irresponsible of the citizen to not stand up and do what is needed in the face of potential danger. The police can only do so much. Our constitution and our laws are designed to give the average citizen the right and ability to stand up for what is just and right.

I wish more people were willing and able to defend themselves and step-in when the need arises.

originally posted by: RickyD
To be quite honest I would take the charge and walk away as soon as I saw the struggle. My thought process would say a) don't be a witness and b) don't get involved for all those bad reasons in the OP. So I'm gonna pretend I didn't see or hear a thing and walk on with a quick pace even. I mean if the officer shows up on the news dead I would describe what I did see, but stop or interfere no way.

Wow. I would be ashamed to admit that. No thought of 'good citizenship' or any that?
________________

Of course I would help if I could. Seeing an officer struggling with a criminal-- coming out on the losing end, and there was something I could do? I wouldn't hesitate to assist. I'm not the bravest person in the world, but I'm no coward either.

It is human psychological nature to not help, in an inverse proportion to the size of the crowd.

Making basic human behavior illegal is more reprehensible than what is happening in the OP. Its like trying to outlaw hugs, or the satisfaction gained from hand to mouth behaviors....its human nature. its what we do from a hard wiring perspective.

a reply to: introvert

That's the thing, civilians aren't trained to deal with potential dangerous situations like LE is.
Not everyone can defend themselves let alone defend someone else.

If a person did feel they could be of help and stepped up, that's great but I really don't think it should be the law to do so.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Agreed, you should help the officer if you feel that you can.

But to make it illegal not to is scary.

a reply to: FraggleRock

"But wait...Haven't the courts made it clear that police have no legal obligation to protect and/or offer services to any individual? I know there is a moral argument that could be made but simply sticking to the legal argument this appears to be one sided, as usual. "

The way I see the situation, county sheriffs are the only Constitutionally legal policing authorities and all others are nothing more than corporate security guards that are hired to protect corporate interests. Every state, every county, every city and even the federal government are corporate entities and the people they hire are "CORPORATE EMPLOYEES"........ That have no interest in protecting YOU.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan



As far as the bystander effect, like they say, 'a person is smart' but 'people are stupid'.

It's monkey see monkey do. Waiting for someone else to step up, or not, as the case may be.

eta: I changed my post because it is not claimed the officer actually asked anyone for assistance. I should have the actual source before commenting.

More from the source of the topic:

Bill Davis with the Fraternal Order of Police said unless it appears to be a dangerous situation, even if you're not legally obligated to help, you should be morally obligated to help.

“I wouldn't ask anybody in the public sector to get involved in a shootout or anything like that, if a police officer is involved in a shootout, get out of the way," Davis said. “He's not going to ask you to get involved in it, and I wouldn't suggest it so if it's just an altercation where someone is wrestling with the officer and it looks like they're getting the best of the officer, yes you need to help."

a reply to: lifecitizen

If a person did feel they could be of help and stepped up, that's great but I really don't think it should be the law to do so.

I can agree with that.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Bill Davis with the Fraternal Order of Police said unless it appears to be a dangerous situation, even if you're not legally obligated to help, you should be morally obligated to help.

“I wouldn't ask anybody in the public sector to get involved in a shootout or anything like that, if a police officer is involved in a shootout, get out of the way," Davis said. “He's not going to ask you to get involved in it, and I wouldn't suggest it so if it's just an altercation where someone is wrestling with the officer and it looks like they're getting the best of the officer, yes you need to help."

To me that whole statement reads like double speak....."unless it appears to be a dangerous situation "...Are we to assume that a criminal in a fight with an officer is not a dangerous situation ?..especially considering the officer must be losing the fight therefor the need for joe public to intervene ......

And then goes on to say if it not a fire fight then yes you need to help....WTF....

a reply to: Rikku

also protect, serve and often risk their lives everyday.

I believe that people should have tried to help the cop.
But I have a problem with the 'protect and serve' thing.
Cops spend most of their time collecting revenue for the jurisdiction that they work for. They are reactive when it comes to crime. Not blaming them, it is just how it is. Crimes happen, then the police are called.
Then there is that thing about risking their lives. We fall for the propaganda because it is force fed to us every time a cop is injured or killed on the job. Facts don't lie though, and there are a list of everyday jobs that are more dangerous than being a cop.
Don't think there is any propaganda? When did you see a news report about a logger getting killed on the job? Did he get a parade with a long string of govt employees driving govt vehicles burning govt fuel?

a reply to: FraggleRock

The legal crux of this particular issue, is quite straightforward.

The cop has to 'specifically' request aid from bystanders...if he did not, there's no legal requirement for citizens to aid the cop.

The Citizen is only legally responsible to aid the cop after being requested to help, and ONLY if the arrest being effected is LAWFUL.

If the bystander is asked for help, and the arrest being effected is deemed lawful in the opinion of the bystander, the bystander has to also make the determination that the situation is reasonable.

LOTS of ways to not get prosecuted for not helping the cop.

He didn't ask.

In the bystanders view, the arrest was not lawful.

The situation wasn't reasonable to intervene (not safe, would lead to more crime etc).

Simply saying they didn't help and so should be prosecuted isn't anywhere near enough.

a reply to: FraggleRock
Law or no law ...........I would help, wouldn't even think twice...........because I'm the on who has to live with me. There is also the good Samaritan law, works for a lot of different situations.