ATS Debate: Round 1: Abraham Virtue vs. Gryffen

ATS Great Debate
Round One

Abraham Virtue vs. Gryffen

Topic: Global government (typically referred to as the NWO) will actually be the best thing to happen to society.

Abraham Virtue will take the affirmative position, agreeing with the statement and will have first opening statement.

Gryffen will take the contrary position, and will have first closing statement.

Editing of your posts is strictly prohibited! For obvious reasons. Editing your post results in immediate forfeiture.

1- Competitors assigned the affirmative position go first with an opening statement, and have right of passing their opening statement post to their contrary position competitor. Opening statements cannot contain links.

2- Each competitor in turn contributes six posts to support their side of the topic. (For a total of seven posts) These are the only posts within the debate that may contain links to articles, or embedded pictures/graphics. (one link or graphic per post). No more than 18 hours between posts or you forfeit your turn.

3- The competitor representing the contrary position has first right of closing statement. As with the opening statement, they have an opportunity to pass to their competitor representing the affirmative position. Closing statements cannot contain links.

4- Each competitor can submit one rebuttal to their competitors closing statement, but cannot exceed 200 words. Rebuttals are not required.

This is a total of 18 posts, the debate is closed, and voting begins. Forum members will vote on the merits of your capabilities arguing your side of the position, not their opinion of the position.

The debate begins at 23:00 GMT today. Opening statement from the affirmative side is due by 17:00 tomorrow, or the opening statement is passed to the contrary side.

Good luck, and have fun.

Many people have heard of something that they call the "New World Order". The New World Order is usually conceived as being a one world government entity. Now many people often equate this one world entity as something sinister and oppressive.

To do so is to simply jump to unwarranted conclusions. Many people want to demonize this one world government without having proper cause for doing so. To label this unseen and unknown entity as demonic or spiteful is just not fair, especially when we consider that this New World Order hasn't been given a chance.

Let us observe what this New World Order is meant to be. The best way to do that is to pick apart that term we so often use, the "New World Order"

The word "New" represents something foreign or not yet known. So we can gather from this conclusion that this perceived order is new, or foreign to our nature as of yet.

Now, the word "World" simply means that in which we live, or our domain. So that would imply the wholeness of the entity and the fact that it is within our territorial presence.

The word "Order" is usually equated with civility and structure all manifested as one. Or in other words that which is fundamentally stable and just.

Therefore we get the term "New World Order". Meaning an entity born into service of civil order in the civilized world that we know.

Therefore the New World Order must be right and must be just. For what is not right and just about Worldly order???

How wouldn't want that???

The only people I know that wouldn't want order would be those that are corrupted or likely to corrupt. Therefore any opposition to this order would be deemed as an uncivilized and as unjust undertakings. REMEMBER NOW, that is if we were to say that the New World Order is just and civil. How it isn't is beyond me.

Let us examine civility.

Civility is that which is benefitial to the civilian. What would be benefitial to the civilian???

Well that is more complex. Civilians make the civilizations that they live and breed in. Without citizens you can have no civilization. Without a civil entity one cannot have a civilized world or any sensible civilization. That is what a civilization is.

A civilization is a soceity that is sensibly stable and just. Before civilization the world was full of clans, tribes and chaos. We have seen how little clans and tribes benefit peace and order. The best way to achieve civil order is to have united citizens working for order and stability.

The more and more we wait to make use of this united order the longer we wait for utopian peace. For without this sense of worldly order we can have no chance for a utopian world. The New World Order is the first step to a utopian world.

Is that not what the world really wants in the end???

Utopia.

Isn't that the ideals of God and his world???

To live as one.

Or did I confuse this need for utopia with some dream of my own???

My opening statement

The "New World Order", what is it?

Well to be perfectly honest i don't know that much about it! But what i have heard or read about is that they are a group of people who want everyone to be as they are. To be under the same rules, to follow everything in the law that they have written; in another sense....to lose your individuality!

Abraham Virtue has given you all the good points about the NWO, but to be honest, they are biased as they clearly show his williness to join up if they came to power. But what about the down side? What will they ask of the people in return for all the peace and prosperity they have promised?

My main questions during these next few days will be:

Who the NWO really are?

Would they share equal goverment with the people of this planet, or would they become dictators?

But more inportantly....why they believe that they should be the ones in control, when the world doesn't work in that way?

First question:

"But what about the down side?"

Well that is a great question. The downside of the New World Order would have to be the fact that some people are too nationalist to accept world unity. I can't say positively that this New World Order will be free of problems. We can't possibly expect it to be perfect. Nothing is perfect. The only thing I would consider or expect to be perfect is God. We cannot compete with God, and his essence will always prevail over ours'. The New World Order is no different. Therefore the New World Order will face troubles just as any other civilized entity has in the past.

Because of that the New World Order will see it's cause undermined by those it benefits. Now we must stop here and analyze this proposal:

Who would benefit from the New Wolrd Order's demise???

Well if you ask me, those that would see that this world unity as an enemy of their' own, would be those that hate peace and order. Only those that want power for themselves, and for themselves ONLY would see to it that the world was free from this entity. I can't see why any peace loving person would oppose a nexus of worldly order and civility among the people held within in that nexus. If you can prove me wrong on this point please by all means, do so.

Next question:

"What will they ask of the people in return for all the peace and prosperity they have promised?"

Well this one is simple. JFK once said, "Don't ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country."

That is the ideal of the New World Order I would expect to see. The New World Order would expect all people who value freedom and unity to contribute to it in any ways they are capable. Now what is so bad about that???

That in my opinion is what will make the New World Order great. The New World Order, unlike all other civil entities will be dependant on it's people. Many governments of the world are absolute rulers of their' doctrines, policies and ideals. Do you really think that in today's, world especially in America today, that we the people have a say in these matters???

I don't.

Did the bulk of America want a war in Vietnam???

No.

Did the people desire to see a draft???

No.

Will the New World Order expect this from us???

Maybe.

Can the New World Order enforce something of this magnitude???

Not if you ask me, no.

The world is much too vast. Not to mention why would we even need a war???

The world is as one under the New World Order. The only wars we would see under the NWO would be those of resistance and rebellion. Rebellion against what???

Peace and order. Hence the first question. Only those that want power for themselves and for themselves ONLY would see to it that the NWO lost it's strength. Am I right or am I wrong???

Let us move on to Gryffen's next question:

"Who the NWO really are?"

Well that has already been answered by the last question. The New World Order would be all those that contribute to it. That is to say if the New World Order wasn't formed by corruptors and power hungry oppressors. We argue all we want about who will form this order but we can't really say for sure until it happens. Otherwise we would just be jumping to more unwarrented suggestions. That we cannot do if we are going to debate this sensibly. You can take us that direction if you want but I wouldn't expect us to get very far in this discussion if one were to do so. If you can prove me wrong, please by all means go ahead.

Another question:


"Would they share equal goverment with the people of this planet, or would they become dictators?"

Sorry but I think I already answered this question.

Last question:

"But more inportantly....why they believe that they should be the ones in control, when the world doesn't work in that way?"

This is where I find problems with the ideals of Gryffen's analysis. Who exactly is this "They" she keeps speaking of???

Would not "They" be us???

Would not "They" be we the people???

Like I said earlier we cannot jump to conclusions here. Otherwise this debate will become a quagmire. We can assume all we want but we can never be for sure what will happen. We cannot assume that those that want this World Order will be so power hungry. To do so would only upset this conversation by coming to once again more unwarrented conclusions. Am I right or am I wrong???

I hope these were all viable answers to your questions Gryffen. Got any more???

PEACE AND FREEDOM ABOUND

Gryffen, you must respond within 12 hours of this post or you will default.

Gryffne has been too busy to participate and has thus defaulted.