Biggest Gay Lobby Group in America Urges Schools to Ban Words ‘Boy’ and ‘Girl’

a reply to: KAOStheory

The point of showing you those two disorders was to show you that going JUST by what someone's chromosomes are to determine gender isn't a foolproof way to go about doing it. Science is finding tons of natural exceptions, and we are now adding transgenderism as a human exception. So the argument that we HAVE to call a transgendered woman a man JUST because they have a Y chromosome is flawed, because there are cases where people have NATURALLY been born with a Y chromosome and we still call them women.

originally posted by: KAOStheory

originally posted by: Annee


Transgenders are not required to have surgery to change their sexual organs. It is a personal CHOICE. And it's no one else's business if they do or don't.
Jenner is a male to female transgender who is attracted to women. He is not a gay man with boobs.

You are so right. That's why the term, instead of "Transexual," which is what Carlos is. But what part of him exactly is "male to female?"
Buying boobs makes you a woman now. SO female double-mastectomy patients are now men? Good lord your "logic" is - ugh...

More antiquated belief and terminologies.

It is a transgender or transexuals right to define themself ---- not yours.

Unlike transgender, transsexual is not an umbrella term. Many transgender people do not identify as transsexual and prefer the word transgender. It is best to ask which term an individual prefers. www.glaad.org...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: KAOStheory

originally posted by: Annee

More antiquated belief and terminologies.

It is a transgender or transexuals right to define themself ---- not yours.

Ok I'm a bird.
Don't argue, it's not up to you, science, parents, doctors, science, law, bathrooms, science, my penis, science...
From now on I will only speak in chirps so you better learn it.
It's best actually if you ask what i feel like i am, subject to change at any time. Actually, just did, i don't wanna be a bird anymore. Now i'm a cat. You better ask me.
DId you just say "it's best to ask" - as in, I am being forced to actually care about some strangers sexual identity?!

I mean get real.
You know that BRUCE is going to cry boo-hoo, there's no jail for me.
He'll go to some cushy condo they call jail for the rich and famous.
It was ALL to distract, and complicate, the manslaughter charges. OBVIOUSLY.

a reply to: Annee

You know Annie, people can define themselves all day long however they wish but certain problems exist when the minority rules over the majority with some kind of iron fist.

A person who disassociates with their gender is a human being the same as you or I - yes. But no one should be less than a human being either. They are less than 1% of the population. Should people be aware and sensitive to the needs of those people who disassociate their gender? Sure... but at the same time no one should loose their humanity in order to cater to that huge minority.

My daughter is a she, my son is a he.. they have girl and boy parts respectively, same for my grandchildren. They are humans, not purple dinosaurs or it's or anything else. If someone refers to my children by name this is fine, if in an informal setting they are referred to by their gender this is fine too. But in no way shape or form are they going to be told they are something less than human.

In this crazy world we live in there are more pedophiles and crazies and rapists and perverts than there are people who disassociate with their gender. In public situations if you have boy parts in order to keep others safe from very real predators you should stay out of a woman's restroom UNLESS that restroom is a one person single stall locked restroom.

Predators are a greater issue and a greater threat to us than any person who disassociates with their respective gender parts - and they must be sensitive of that where all of us, themselves included, are concerned.

If a boy or a girl comes up to one of us and says, "I am not what I appear to be, and my name is not the name on my drivers license", okay fine.. we will deal with that IF and when it comes up. We should be caring toward all people, as that is only right.. but they must be just as sensitive to the rest of us.

And god help them if they would rather be called a purple dinosaur or an it than to be called a human being! I can only imagine they would like to be human too!

originally posted by: Annee

More antiquated belief and terminologies.

It is a transgender or transexuals right to define themself ---- not yours.

Saying "antiquated belief and terminologies" may make you feel smart, but you sound ridiculous, young, and naive.
It's not their right to define themselves as something they just are not.
It is not anyone's "right" to simply decide they are the opposite sex - or another RACE.
That idea is pathetically disgusting, insulting, and could easily border on criminal misrepresentation.
If the elite, wealthy, powerful 1% are wrong for imposing their systems on the 99%, how is it ok for this 1%?
Oh, right. It's not.

a reply to: KAOStheory
Wendy was Walter until 29 years of age when Walter began living as Wendy. FOUR YEARS LATER in 1972, Wendy underwent sexual reassignment surgery (SRS) which had already been performed thousands of times in this country alone before then. Sure hope she didn't have to pee at your place during those four years.

From wikipedia:

Carlos became aware of her gender dysphoria from an early age; she told Playboy, "I was about five or six... I remember being convinced I was a little girl, much preferring long hair and girls' clothes, and not knowing why my parents didn't see it clearly"

Probably not someone too thrilled about being forced by a teacher to stand in line with the boys, ya think? I sure wasn't.

Are you serious with that question? Are you a "milleneal?" Is that why you think this has been an issue like, forever, when really, it hasn't and is simply the result of a growing, ridiculous sense of personal deserving of special treatment by everyone, not just the "transgendered?"

Well, this has been an issue "forever". Carlos was born in 1939. Two days earlier and I would have been born in 1954 and I also well knew I wasn't supposed to be a boy by age five. In high school, I was neither a boy or a girl by most people's perception and after graduation, began living and working as a young woman. When I was finally able to obtain funding, which incidentally was reimbursed by insurance as a medical necessity, in 1977 at age 22, I had the "full surgery" as you call it. I don't know how old you are but I'm guessing this was probably before you were even born?

So yeah, I think that gives me a little cred to comment on this issue, long before the Internet, anybody to really talk to or before your "growing ridiculous sense of personal deserving of special treatment" had come about.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

Why would anyone do any of those things?

That seems really nutty and extremist.

(And ludicrously exaggerated, nonsensical and absurd, but I think that would be obvious.)

I can't help it, that is my reaction to the suggestion of trying to 'structure classrooms' as you put it.

Did you read the OP article? That is the actual article at HRC?

These are suggestions available to teachers and/or parents who want to structure classrooms along more inclusive lines.

Here, again, is the actual article at HRC: Four Ways to Make a Classroom Gender-Inclusive.

I just don't believe it'll work. The LGBT community should focus on themselves and teach eachother how to deal with their misery or maybe think about taking medications if that'll make their lives better. If they would work on themselves instead of others, people might actually become convinced in a more natural way as opposed to this forcing to 'structure' groups of people.

Either people will get fed up with their demands as they get more insane and difficult to respect or people will just get more openly divided such as schools where they take a more old fashioned approach next to 'LGBT correct' schools. And there might be a majority of people in the future that will choose this (non-lgbt movement), all the hard work of LGBTers will be undone. Public opinion has been on the side of LGBT for decades now but it's not like that can never change, everyone has a line.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Annee

You know Annie, people can define themselves all day long however they wish but certain problems exist when the minority rules over the majority with some kind of iron fist.

Got news for you. That 1% is part of the 100%. They make the whole.

You're talking to one who was 5 years old when her mom became disabled with polio. What percent is her worth?

The disability act was not signed until 1990. That's 30+ years with no protection or equality.

Equal treatment is 100% --- includes everyone.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I am not sure how different the education system is where you are, but they already have non gender specific ways to divide kids up. Do you not have the sports 'houses' in your schools? We had them - I was green house, there was also yellow, blue and red houses too. They were used to divide us up for sports days and anything competitive.

However, asking to never divide kids up by gender is insanity. How are you going to run fair sports days if you get the girls to compete against the boys in the same event i,e, shotput, sprinting, tennis etc etc. Girls are great sports people but their physical abilities are defined by their gender so to make it fair they need to compete among themselves in order to have a fair shot at winning. This is not being sexist, it is just pointing a truth that not dividing kids by gender will challenge then ultimately prove.

Then there are things like vaccinations - in our school there were some for females only, like rubella. How are we going to divide the girls off for that?

I am not kow-towing to any particular political leaning here, I am just trying to be practical. I've already said I love and support my transgender brethren, but we need to be practical about this too. I'm 100% on board with making sure that these children are looked after and included. Inclusiveness and education that not all of us identify our gender with the genitalia we were born with when a trans child is part of the school is the way forward.

a reply to: Annee

I am not against equality, I am against opening doors for predators to walk into and for the 99% to be forced to deny our own humanity! ALL of us are human beings, and I wont deny my humanity nor the humanity of my family to please ANYONE!

And I daresay they should not deny their humanity either!

Why is it that the ones who always bang on about people being offended often come across as the ones who feel offended?


Might be something to do with writing style but it does appear prevalent.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Annee

I am not against equality, I am against opening doors for predators to walk into and for the 99% to be forced to deny our own humanity! ALL of us are human beings, and I wont deny my humanity nor the humanity of my family to please ANYONE!

And I daresay they should not deny their humanity either!

Predators? What predators?

What are you talking about?

originally posted by: markosity1973
However, asking to never divide kids up by gender is insanity. How are you going to run fair sports days if you get the girls to compete against the boys in the same event i,e, shotput, sprinting, tennis etc etc. Girls are great sports people but their physical abilities are defined by their gender so to make it fair they need to compete among themselves in order to have a fair shot at winning. This is not being sexist, it is just pointing a truth that not dividing kids by gender will challenge.

You're talking about a division by anatomical sex, not gender. I agree, this is unavoidable in situations like you mentioned.

I don't have a suggestion or solution for that. In my own case since nobody could figure out what to do with me exactly, I got a medical exemption from all sports activities including the dreaded locker room & shower part of the whole thing. I spent 7th and 8th grade P.E. class in the coach's office folding towels. I don't have a better idea on what to do about kids like I was but do know this only further alienated me from other students.

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: markosity1973
However, asking to never divide kids up by gender is insanity. How are you going to run fair sports days if you get the girls to compete against the boys in the same event i,e, shotput, sprinting, tennis etc etc. Girls are great sports people but their physical abilities are defined by their gender so to make it fair they need to compete among themselves in order to have a fair shot at winning. This is not being sexist, it is just pointing a truth that not dividing kids by gender will challenge.

You're talking about a division by anatomical sex, not gender. I agree, this is unavoidable in situations like you mentioned.

I don't have a suggestion or solution for that. In my own case since nobody could figure out what to do with me exactly, I got a medical exemption from all sports activities including the dreaded locker room & shower part of the whole thing. I spent 7th and 8th grade P.E. class in the coach's office folding towels. I don't have a better idea on what to do about kids like I was but do know this only further alienated me from other students.

The OP HRC article seems to be addressing, mostly, elementary school.

From previous discussions ---- girls/boys are pretty equal in all ways up to about age 12.

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: markosity1973
However, asking to never divide kids up by gender is insanity. How are you going to run fair sports days if you get the girls to compete against the boys in the same event i,e, shotput, sprinting, tennis etc etc. Girls are great sports people but their physical abilities are defined by their gender so to make it fair they need to compete among themselves in order to have a fair shot at winning. This is not being sexist, it is just pointing a truth that not dividing kids by gender will challenge.

You're talking about a division by anatomical sex, not gender. I agree, this is unavoidable in situations like you mentioned.

I don't have a suggestion or solution for that. In my own case since nobody could figure out what to do with me exactly, I got a medical exemption from all sports activities including the dreaded locker room & shower part of the whole thing. I spent 7th and 8th grade P.E. class in the coach's office folding towels. I don't have a better idea on what to do about kids like I was but do know this only further alienated me from other students.

And that is the conundrum. We need to find a way to fit children like you were in without causing the issues I have raised.

At my school we had mixed gender team sports like hockey and even soccer. We thought it was cool that girls would play too and a trans kid would have been welcomed as well.

As for the locker room thing, I'm sure that there would be a way to overcome it. Maybe using a room of your own?

Or just do what kids like I did who dreaded them too - hide in the corner with all the other kids who felt the same way lol. Yes, the locker room can be uncomfortable for a lot of kids, you are far from unique in that one.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

RIght. So there's nothing in the subject matter we're discussing that is suggesting that we call children "its."

As I thought.

originally posted by: Annee
From previous discussions ---- girls/boys are pretty equal in all ways up to about age 12.

Yeah, 12 is when SHTF big time for me and my issues really started causing problems. That's also how old I was when the school told my parents I couldn't come back without cutting my hair which was another battle I somehow managed to win thanks to my folks going to bat for me.

Kids these days that are as troubled with all this stuff as much I was then are usually allowed to transition and be who they want to be. That wasn't happening in 1967 but for the rest of junior high and high school, I pushed the boundaries as much as I could get away with.

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

Your reaction is ridiculous and extreme then and unrelated to anything said here. You might as well be making stuff up.

The source articles referred to "structuring classrooms." I see you didn't bother to read what you're expounding on.

The LGBT community should "deal with their misery" eh? LOL. Thanks for letting the bigot flag fly freely.

Nothing is being "forced" on anyone. Nothing is being "shoved down your throat."

"People" will get fed up with our demands? Wow. Dude, we're people too, probably about 5 to 10% of the population if not more.

HRC is an activist group that is responding to requests not legislating regulations. Are you really that intimidated?

I'm sure in your fantasies, we can all be pushed back into the closet so you don't have to be reminded of anything unpleasant, but without a complete change in the way we do things in America, i.e. under the Constitution of the United States, you aren't going to get your wish.

Public opinion is more "on the side of" LGBT PEOPLE than ever. The days you long for are gone.

Get ready for an Equal Rights Amendment for both sexual orientation and gender identity.

Every American gets to be who they are now.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Probably related to the reason that there is such a strong, passionate, over-the-top reaction to anything "gay" on the part of some.

Probably the same reason that symbolic language like "shoved down our throats" and "forced to comply" becomes so prevalent.

Repression often manifests in sado-masochistic imagry.

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Annee
From previous discussions ---- girls/boys are pretty equal in all ways up to about age 12.

Yeah, 12 is when SHTF big time for me and my issues really started causing problems. That's also how old I was when the school told my parents I couldn't come back without cutting my hair which was another battle I somehow managed to win thanks to my folks going to bat for me.

Kids these days that are as troubled with all this stuff as much I was then are usually allowed to transition and be who they want to be. That wasn't happening in 1967 but for the rest of junior high and high school, I pushed the boundaries as much as I could get away with.

Oh yeah, I can imagine.

I graduated high school in 1964. Suff was just starting to happen, to open up, Free to Be and all that.