Pre-firearm weapon discussion

a reply to: Elysian

for me I think the ginunting, talibong or Itak are the most rounded and best swords for combat. dynamic, agile, exceedingly leathal.

it's the reason the .45 pistol round was invented. us soldiers were getting slaughtered by skinny Philippinos with short swords. the .38 they were using didn't do jack. had to invent the .45 to even hold their own against some locals with the equivalent of machetes. a guy attacking with a short sword is that deveststing. for close quarters combat the philippino special forces use a short sword not a dagger. i always thought that was interesting.

question for ya. what are you studying or researching to develop your blade technique?

for me its been a combination of kali (various) and Indonesian silat. the blades versitility is always surprising me when I figure out yet one more thing it can do.

mad respect to the kukri. I've used it like a hatchet on jobs that even industrial chainsaws were bogging down on. i.e. wood too dense. but the kukri hacked through it given enough time.

i prefere single handed swords to double handed because it triples the techniques you can use.

as for musashi. sweet you are a fan of his. musashi first kill was when he was 13. a samurai was going village to village to challenge the locals in duels. showed up at musashi village. nobody rose to the challenge. musashi then living in the woods outsude the village, estranged from his family, marched out and took the challenge. the samurai laughed at the 13 year old boy armed only with a tree branch. well according to witnesses musashi beat the samurai weilding a sword to death with the stick. he had no technique, just superior attitude. on lookers Saud he appeared psychotic and kept beating the samurai into a disfigured pulp.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Elysian

for me I think the ginunting, talibong or Itak are the most rounded and best swords for combat. dynamic, agile, exceedingly leathal.

it's the reason the .45 pistol round was invented. us soldiers were getting slaughtered by skinny Philippinos with short swords. the .38 they were using didn't do jack. had to invent the .45 to even hold their own against some locals with the equivalent of machetes. a guy attacking with a short sword is that deveststing. for close quarters combat the philippino special forces use a short sword not a dagger. i always thought that was interesting.

question for ya. what are you studying or researching to develop your blade technique?

for me its been a combination of kali (various) and Indonesian silat. the blades versitility is always surprising me when I figure out yet one more thing it can do.

mad respect to the kukri. I've used it like a hatchet on jobs that even industrial chainsaws were bogging down on. i.e. wood too dense. but the kukri hacked through it given enough time.

i prefere single handed swords to double handed because it triples the techniques you can use.

as for musashi. sweet you are a fan of his. musashi first kill was when he was 13. a samurai was going village to village to challenge the locals in duels. showed up at musashi village. nobody rose to the challenge. musashi then living in the woods outsude the village, estranged from his family, marched out and took the challenge. the samurai laughed at the 13 year old boy armed only with a tree branch. well according to witnesses musashi beat the samurai weilding a sword to death with the stick. he had no technique, just superior attitude. on lookers Saud he appeared psychotic and kept beating the samurai into a disfigured pulp.

You would probably lose all if any respect for me if i told you...

Im self taught since i was a child.
It just... clicks for me
I've defeated people who have had formal training, even people who have competed and won medals

On the other hand, im useless in standard life scenarios. I would never be able to handle a normal job, hell Home Depot was a nightmare for me, and im glad to be out of that place.

a reply to: Elysian

no respect lost. everyone has to spend much of their time working solo with the blade to get the basic techniques to conform to their individual requirements. physical fitness, psychology, intended usage etc. its important to make the art their own or it will never work when needed.

do you experiment with various grips. ie reverse sabre. modified sabre. standard sabre, hammer etc... preferences?

like any YouTube personalities that have pages dedicated to the art?

i have a bias towards south east asian ma but my recommendations are if you are interested in short sword only. research videos on people doing Kalis illustrisimo. for a wide variety of weapons from stick to Spanish sword to sword and dagger research doce pares videos or documentaries. for strictly dagger and a lot of combative machete work pekiti tirsia. empty hand close quarters inosanto/lacoste blend of kali. ted lucay, serrada, or any decent video on pangumut/panantukan. or any ww2 combatives stuff like applegate, fairbanks or styers works. just not modern mcmap. wanna learn the same stuff from an Indigenous perspective check out silek malayu or penjak silat sera.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: Elysian

no respect lost. everyone has to spend much of their time working solo with the blade to get the basic techniques to conform to their individual requirements. physical fitness, psychology, intended usage etc. its important to make the art their own or it will never work when needed.

do you experiment with various grips. ie reverse sabre. modified sabre. standard sabre, hammer etc... preferences?

like any YouTube personalities that have pages dedicated to the art?

i have a bias towards south east asian ma but my recommendations are if you are interested in short sword only. research videos on people doing Kalis illustrisimo. for a wide variety of weapons from stick to Spanish sword to sword and dagger research doce pares videos or documentaries. for strictly dagger and a lot of combative machete work pekiti tirsia. empty hand close quarters inosanto/lacoste blend of kali. ted lucay, serrada, or any decent video on pangumut/panantukan. or any ww2 combatives stuff like applegate, fairbanks or styers works. just not modern mcmap. wanna learn the same stuff from an Indigenous perspective check out silek malayu or penjak silat sera.

Not interested in any partile channels on youtube but this is one of my favorite videos of a very large sword being used one handed

www.youtube.com...

My favorite sword is the liu ye dao which is the chinese willow leaf saber
and i enjoy it because of its curved hilt, which feels really good in the hand

a reply to: Elysian

ah the bagua sword. pretty familar with it. heres a pretty cool demo in my neighborhood from a few years back of the bagua dao. (im also somewhere in the background in this video participating in the demo they were doing that day. heres a hint im short )

m.youtube.com...

a reply to: Elysian

as for the liu ye dao its handle gives great control of the tip of the sword due to the curve and angle. forces your hand into a proper sabre grip allowing for maximum wrist articulation.

a reply to: Elysian

Also the video you posted really is an excellent demonstration of the da dao. He does this really sneaky move about a minut half into his routine that I really like.

for having good taste in your video selection.

Well the obvious question about a weapon is what you intend to do with it- that makes a big difference as to what weapon you want and how it will work for you.

In the pure weapon vs weapon sense, I think a short to medium length light flexible sword with a slight curve of just about any kind from katana to Mamaluke sword to scimitar is the most fool-proof way for a non-expert to keep somebody else from getting close enough to do harm. Only an expert is going to have a sword fight that last beyond two or three strokes- for most of us who don't live and die by the sword but would keep one just in case, it's best that your weapon be light enough and versatile enough to counter attack faster than other common melee weapons.

But in practice where am I ever going to be able to carry a sword for defense, and when will there ever not be people with guns around, who are the only ones who will ever mess with me while I am obviously carrying a sword?

So in a real world sense, I think that subtlety (both concealment and dual use that might make it excusable to carry), and flexibility of use are pretty key.

Personally I carry a my USMC ka-bar in situations where I think I might need a weapon. If I ever have to let the police hold it during a conversation we end up talking about my military service, and it is easily excused as a camping tool and emergency barter good that I keep in my truck at all times, but in reality there are a couple of places I can conceal it and still be able to draw and slash in one move, which gives me half a chance at close range if I see you go for a gun. I can also draw it and use it from inside of my sleeping bag easily, so if a bear is eating me alive at least I can encourage him to get it over with.

(I once had a cop roust me from camping and completely miss the knife- when I eventually remembered that it was something he'd want to know about I volunteered to let him hold it, and the look on his face when I took it out was pretty priceless. Obviously up until that point he felt that in any difference of opinion he could simply grab me while he was standing and I was sitting up in a bag and realized he would have lost if he had tried then. Never the less it continued to be a friendly interaction and it turned out we were on camp Pendleton around the same time in 2004.)

a reply to: BASSPLYR
Hey there Bassplyr,
Had no idea you were into the blades, and would you be phillipino?
I am 1/4 illocano.
As a teenager i taught myself the tennets of Go Rin No Sho, by reading it and by watching Japanese soap operas. A local channel had Japanese soaps on Sat mornings from 6am to noon. One was the life's story of Miyamoto Musashi, the actor who portrayed him was supposed to be one of the top practitioners of the style, at the time.
But, I realized it wasn't a style per se, but a cutting philosophy, all that matters is cutting your opponent.
The 'Musashi" grip has actually carried over into my motorcycle racing, I hold the handle bars with only the pinky and ring fingers, while index is on brake/clutch and middle floats.
I joined the SCA when I was 15 and used the replica of a 15th century Japanes suit of armor I made in metal shop.
They thought I was to aggressive, and asked me to leave the group, I was beating up on 30 year olds.
When I worked as a wild land fire fighter I was lead brush hook, so I used that as cutting practice, I could cut a 3" diameter pine in one swing.
So years later I took up competitive fencing, at first I was a sabre guy, my coach was a two time Olympic silver medalist. But then I discovered epee, OMG,
my training partner was a multi time national champion, and I have embraced rapier/epee fencing.
My go to weapon now , would be as 17th cent. Rapier or a sharpened epee.

For bladed weapons, a nice balanced tomahawk is every bit as effective as 500 years ago with plenty of force transferred on target. Two would be ideal for obvious reasons. for ranged, a slingshot.

The Aztec Atlatl spear throwing device is a lot of fun. I love to Tomahawk throw against wooden stump targets. I sometimes survey work with a machete or brush hook --- My machete has the blood of a thousand meadows on it. I bow hunt with a bow or crossbow. When I nature walk in the woods...I carry a wooden or nylon samurai katana training sword, so I can slash at vines, spider webs, gnats and mosquitos; without fear of cutting myself or others.

I do like slingshots. For any Medieval playtime...a wooden pike, halberd, glaive or a voulge comes too mind.

If I had my druthers...I would want a ULFBERHT Viking sword.
Link:
www.pbs.org...

Or a fine Samurai sword

Link:

www.pbs.org...

One word....

Apokatana

www.zombietools.net...

Flexible spear, two short swords and a shield
covers all ranges and space.

The medieval pole axe was a fantastic piece of kit for dealing with the armoured knights of old. They would be used by unarmoured troops. The large hooked blade was used to pull the legs from under the knight. The flat hammer on the back of the blade was used to smash the helmet, stunning or even killing the wearer. The spike was driven through the joints and visor to inflict injury. The long pole allowed the user to keep his distance. The flat blade was used to attack the horses of armoured soldiers.

Admittedly not too useful today but a good example of how weapons were designed to meet specific threats.

a reply to: punkinworks10

geeze sorry pumkinworks,

dont know how I missed your post. totally sorry.

I'm not a philippino. just got into their arts as a teenager and kept coming back to it. it's really the most complete system out there and its undiluted and still centered around combatives and not "art" even their sayaws like San Miguel May look flashy but it's still all 100 percent applicable combative and functional. basically it's a preeminent system because it works and has been demonstrated as such since basically forever. so i gravitated naturally towards panantukan/pangumut/suntukan and kali-silat /escrima.

but let's talk about the ehpay /eepe. sweet!!!!

I'm super interested in footwork in general, but don't know too much about fencing footwork. is it all linear or are there angles too. i really would love you to give me a conversational schooling on the eepe footwork. any lessons or general's you coukd share. I'd be really interested to hear more about Iit and would find the discussion fascinating. to me its exciting that your into the eepe, have so much experience with it, and that I get to talk to you about it. please share more! !!!

also, i like your description of the musashi grip. at one pont i was learning okinawa te and akido. the teacher also taught iado and kendo on Saturdays and I'd take the classes occasionally. he taught us to grip a kendo sword handle the same way. saud think of it like you are holding a raw egg. grip it gently so you don't crush it but firmly so you don't drop it. plus having your strong hand semi loose allows you to articulate the blade angle
so that it cleaves on impact and doesn't buckle and bounce off due to blade miss alignment. most of the striking power came from the rear weak hands stroke/row and the hips.

also aikido footwork and deflection is based off of the samurai sword technique. most people don't know that. I've heard the dumbest stuff when it comes to aikidos origins Including that it came from bagua. although I heard that crap from bagua proponents.