5th Planned Parenthood Video Released

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

Planned Parenthood says affiliates in fewer than five states participate in fetal tissue donation, though it will not say which ones, citing security issues. [Source]

"Security" issues?

Gotta love that one.

a reply to: JackReyes

So even God himself recognizes that the human life, which he formed, and caused to come into existence, begins at conception.

Nonsense. Biblically speaking, God recognizes a person upon first breath.

Then the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man's nostrils, and the man became a living person.

Also, the biblical god was quite okay with abortion.

Numbers 5
He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memoriale offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

29“ ‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife.

a reply to: windword

Sounds to me like a "Christian abortion".

When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

Planned Parenthood says affiliates in fewer than five states participate in fetal tissue donation, though it will not say which ones, citing security issues. [Source]

"Security" issues?

Gotta love that one.

Why is that? And why do we "gotta love that one?"

What do you believe they mean by "security?"

a reply to: introvert

The herb Silphium was well-known to the ancient world as an abortifacient: Silphium

I would guess that the Hebrew Priests were knowledgeable about this drug and covered it up with all the religious hocus-pocus.

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Indigo5

Can you give a specific example?

These videos are not "evidence" ...they are full on baiting propaganda...and that differentiation has nothing to do with opinion, politics, ideology etc. It is just the facts surrounding the videos, editing and presentation.

And once given can you demonstrate to everyone just how the response's were forced, coerced or done under duress.

Short of that spouting off a bunch of words is easy and I see stars were even given for a complete lack of content.

Facts, really???????

What were the questions? the first video STARTS with 20 seconds of telling us what we are going to see, then doesn't include the question asked or anything and just jumps to the woman ANSWERING some unknown question mid conversation with "...if we alter our process and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers [BAD EDIT/SPLICE] ..it's all just a matter of line items."

And that is just the first 30 seconds???

We have no idea what the question was, how it was phrased etc. What we do know is that what she said was heavily edited and spliced together to look like something other than what it was.

again...that has nothing to do with Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice...It has everything to do with the creators of the video proving they prioritize there message over honesty and accuracy...aka..edit and BS..aka propaganda..

IF the full unedited video showed what they are trying to claim, then why did they have to edit and splice a small 10 second clip of the woman talking?

I also see the CMD filmer (during lunch) talking about financial benefits etc.

Where does the Planned Parenthood woman talk about all the "profits' they will make?

Planned Parenthood donates fetal tissue for research.

That tissue originates with women who volunteer to donate that tissue for scientific research and treatments.

Planned Parenthood is allowed to charge for any additional expenses that obtaining or shipping that tissue costs, but not at a profit. It seems reasonable to accommodate clinics that are already being defunded so that donating to science doesn't incur additional expenses.

WHERE is your smoking gun that PP is receiving profit from their donations?

a reply to: ~Lucidity

as in:

a lot of good "security" did with the videos.

a reply to: windword

Really? Just because he made the first man a full-grown adult? According to that verse you misquoted, no human is a human in God's eyes until they're full-grown adults.

If you are going to use the logic of a three-year-old there is no point in trying to reason with you.

originally posted by: JackReyes
a reply to: windword

Really? Just because he made the first man a full-grown adult? According to that verse you misquoted, no human is a human in God's eyes until they're full-grown adults.

I think your issue is with the bible, not WinWord. You, yourself was the one that introduced the bible as the authority on the matter...all he did was quote it.

originally posted by: JackReyes
a reply to: windword

Really? Just because he made the first man a full-grown adult? According to that verse you misquoted, no human is a human in God's eyes until they're full-grown adults.

If you are going to use the logic of a three-year-old there is no point in trying to reason with you.

With even just a little bit of research you could have shielded your ignorance:

Judaism 101: Birth and the Beginning of Human Life

In Jewish law, although the human soul exists before birth, human life begins at birth, that is, at the time when the child is more than halfway emerged from the mother's body.

Further (and I know, what do the Jews know about God, eh?)

Abortion

Jewish law not only permits, but in some circumstances requires abortion. Where the mother's life is in jeopardy because of the unborn child, abortion is mandatory.

An unborn child has the status of "potential human life" until the majority of the body has emerged from the mother. Potential human life is valuable, and may not be terminated casually, but it does not have as much value as a life in existence. The Talmud makes no bones about this: it says quite bluntly that if the fetus threatens the life of the mother, you cut it up within her body and remove it limb by limb if necessary, because its life is not as valuable as hers. But once the greater part of the body has emerged, you cannot take its life to save the mother's, because you cannot choose between one human life and another.

Again, Judaism 101

Maybe I'm asking my questions and stating my positions in a way PP supporters just cannot understand regarding the CMP videos - granted!

A very high majority of PP supporters claim the videos were done with baiting, editing, false representations and fraud because it was done under auspices of a made up organization wanting to trade in tissue and remains of aborted babies have the idea that all information should be disregarded.

Hopefully that covers the supporters positions but I may have missed a few here and there that are more partisan and political in nature.

The gist I get is supporters feel the videos themselves are unfair

So here's my question or proposition,

If you were a videographer who had information that Planned Parenthood was dealing in body parts, organs and full cadavers for possible profit how would you go about fairly investigating that organization in a way that had them freely discuss what it is they do exactly?

Now I have to say that's a really fair question based on posts I've seen because fairness seems to be the common complaint.

So how would you fairly do it and have any possibility of getting accurate information?

Abortion in Israel

a reply to: Phoenix

Who pass along that information to the authorities who have the ability to get in to their inner working and perform operations that will uncover, or disprove, any wrongdoing.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: Phoenix
a reply to: Indigo5

Can you give a specific example?

These videos are not "evidence" ...they are full on baiting propaganda...and that differentiation has nothing to do with opinion, politics, ideology etc. It is just the facts surrounding the videos, editing and presentation.


And once given can you demonstrate to everyone just how the response's were forced, coerced or done under duress.

Short of that spouting off a bunch of words is easy and I see stars were even given for a complete lack of content.

Facts, really???????

What were the questions? the first video STARTS with 20 seconds of telling us what we are going to see, then doesn't include the question asked or anything and just jumps to the woman ANSWERING some unknown question mid conversation with "...if we alter our process and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers [BAD EDIT/SPLICE] ..it's all just a matter of line items."

And that is just the first 30 seconds???

We have no idea what the question was, how it was phrased etc. What we do know is that what she said was heavily edited and spliced together to look like something other than what it was.

again...that has nothing to do with Pro-Life vs. Pro-Choice...It has everything to do with the creators of the video proving they prioritize there message over honesty and accuracy...aka..edit and BS..aka propaganda..

IF the full unedited video showed what they are trying to claim, then why did they have to edit and splice a small 10 second clip of the woman talking?

Ok, what if I said in the video, "Look we want livers, brains and kidneys tell me how much and I don't care about procedures, that's you're problem or we walk" and edited that out of the video the PP person still had choice and made the wrong one regarding federal law.

I also see the CMD filmer (during lunch) talking about financial benefits etc.

Where does the Planned Parenthood woman talk about all the "profits' they will make?

Planned Parenthood donates fetal tissue for research.

That tissue originates with women who volunteer to donate that tissue for scientific research and treatments.

Planned Parenthood is allowed to charge for any additional expenses that obtaining or shipping that tissue costs, but not at a profit. It seems reasonable to accommodate clinics that are already being defunded so that donating to science doesn't incur additional expenses.

Fair question, my former spouse, dead of cancer, was a medical director at a large non-profit hospital located in the SE U.S. and I can tell you any and I mean any accounting question can be made up to fit a situation if one knows the question beforehand, they always knew the question beforehand - the charges, billings and treatment codes were manipulated in infinite ways to meet any and all challenges that came forth - I have better than ten years of inside knowledge on how this crap is manipulated to either appear to be making money or appear to be operating at a loss. I have no doubt whatsoever PP is using same techniques common in that industry.

WHERE is your smoking gun that PP is receiving profit from their donations?

From prior experience and knowledge of healthcare bookkeeping - easy peasy to invent whatever is needed for public consumption.

edit on 5-8-2015 by Phoenix because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: xuenchen
Abortion in Israel

You prefer that the State have control over the abortion process?

Why am i not surprised?

Right-wingers and Right-to-Lifers both favor government overreach as long as it suits their desires.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Phoenix

Who pass along that information to the authorities who have the ability to get in to their inner working and perform operations that will uncover, or disprove, any wrongdoing.

Ok, so you're up for a private investigation by governmental authority rather than public exposure - right?

originally posted by: Phoenix
Maybe I'm asking my questions and stating my positions in a way PP supporters just cannot understand regarding the CMP videos - granted!

originally posted by: Phoenix
A very high majority of PP supporters claim the videos were done with baiting, editing, false representations and fraud because it was done under auspices of a made up organization wanting to trade in tissue and remains of aborted babies have the idea that all information should be disregarded.

Hmm..No..."A very high majority of PP supporters claim the videos were done with baiting, editing, false representations and fraud "
...because..."the videos were done with baiting, editing, false representations and fraud "

Not because.."it was done under auspices of a made up organization wanting to trade in tissue "

originally posted by: Phoenix
Hopefully that covers the supporters positions but I may have missed a few here and there that are more partisan and political in nature.

It doesn't cover supporters positions at all. You are inferring that supporters are upset that about the way the footage was obtained vs. the way the footage was dishonestly edited and propagandized.

originally posted by: Phoenix
The gist I get is supporters feel the videos themselves are unfair

How would anyone know if the videos are unfair? We haven't seen the full videos. Just the edited propaganda.

originally posted by: Phoenix
If you were a videographer who had information that Planned Parenthood was dealing in body parts, organs and full cadavers for possible profit

Are you asserting that the videographer had that information? Where is it? Cuz I have not seen it, before or after these videos.

how would you go about fairly investigating that organization in a way that had them freely discuss what it is they do exactly?

Copy and turn over your alleged evidence to the legal authorities? Which they didn't do before...cuz you claim they had information before the videos...and they didn't do after their films...all they have released is youtube propaganda pieces that most teenagers could have done a better job editing.

Have they turned over the full unedited footage to any legal authorities??

Read the question again...then ask why not..

Anyone with two brain cells can watch the edited BS and realize quickly that they opted for a Propaganda campaign via youtube vs. the scrutiny that would be applied to presenting the evidence in full to any actual law enforcement.

Propaganda's value is in propaganda...not legitimate scrutiny or examination of the evidence.

originally posted by: Phoenix

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Phoenix

Who pass along that information to the authorities who have the ability to get in to their inner working and perform operations that will uncover, or disprove, any wrongdoing.

Ok, so you're up for a private investigation by governmental authority rather than public exposure - right?

I'm in favor of an investigation that reveals once and for all that PP is guilty or innocent. It's been done before, we can do it again.

If PP is found guilty, take appropriate steps to deal with it.

If they are found innocent, will everyone shut up and move on?

a reply to: Indigo5

You failed to answer the question fairly put - "how would you do it" in a way that satisfies your concerns, that is the question, rather you continue the attacks on the messenger.