Psychics -Is this proof they are genuine? or something more sinister?

I will be convinced that psychics exist when they actually pull something off constructive and definitive.
No hype or contests. No media until verification.

A good place to start is with all of the children that go missing every year.

Pick one, and find them. Prove where they are and what happened to them. Just one.

I suspect that because that has not happened, true psychics are a myth, and for others that agree, wouldn't we all love to be proven wrong?

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

No doubt it would be valuable information but aside from the skepticism, even if I did prove it I don't want to be recognized.

I'm not looking to be famous or anything like that, so you would never catch me trying to show people anything, it's simply a waste of my time.

a reply to: charlyv

It was suggested to me once by the mental health system that I do just that.

Here is the problem I have with that.

Over the course of time, I have experienced other peoples traumas, from a child having their ribcage shattered to being inside someone while their head is caved in, to standing where someone blew their head off and feeling the dizziness as they slipped out of their body, and other instances, and bottom line is IT FRIKKIN SUCKS.

There is no way around it, that stuff hurts physically & mentally and people don't take that into account..
They just want you to suffer so they can get answers, why should anyone put themselves through that when they know it is going to hurt?

People have no idea what some of these things are like. They think it is all fun and games,that it is a cool thing, but when you experience it, your tune changes.

I don't have the stomach for that kind of experience if I can avoid it.

Call me whatever, a coward...whatever you want to call me, but I will not willingly hurt myself to help someone else.
I give what I can when I can, but I have limits, I don't care how cold that sounds, and people need to think about that also when talking about solving crimes...

IT HURTS

More excuses from the "psychics".... Who woulda thunk it?

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Well that was constructive....



You've been poking at people in this thread and I am not sure why other than to rile the "psychics" up and be a half troll,
and not really contribute anything other than being cynical about it other than this quote:

Who said anything about "showing off"? If someone is actually "psychic", proving so would be incredibly valuable to science.

Which was semi-condescending but had a valid point,
mainly having to do with it being valuable to science.

But honestly, at this point, if you just believe it is all a bunch of BS,
why are you still poking for reactions?
Does it make you feel good?
Do you think others are out there reading it and lurking and agreeing with you?

It's a feel good thing isn't it...
You are entitled to your opinion,
but add something worth while instead of just poking and prodding people who are "psychic"....

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
More excuses from the "psychics".... Who woulda thunk it?

I think most of us don't really care. We have people who come to us for help and that's enough. Those people get the evidence they need and it is why they believe and keep returning. If you want a person to prove their abilities to you, seek out their services and see for yourself. You could ask Darkblade or ThreeEyes for a reading but I'm pretty sure I know what they'd tell you by now and I wouldn't blame them.

For realsies, though. Just go get a reading or have your next injury be treated by a Reiki practitioner or something. It will get you more answers than antagonizing people. Or better yet, delve into some divination yourself and give it a real go. You'd be surprised if you approached it authentically. I've never encountered a person who couldn't read with at least a little skill once they took the time to learn and practice.

a reply to: Darkblade71

I don't believe psychic abilities exist, but I don't entirely dismiss the idea either...

There are tens of thousands of people (if not more) who claim to have some sort of psychic ability (with varying specifics, of course). Any sort of scientific proof of such an ability would be quite profound, and could lead to huge advances in our understanding of the human brain and of consciousness.

Scientists have devised all sorts of clever means of testing these abilities (in all their various forms), yet none of these experiments have yielded results signifying the existence of such an ability. Most of the time, "psychics" come up with some excuse as to why they can't (or won't) be tested, and of those that do agree to participate in such tests, the results are always no better than they would be by chance.

So yes, when it comes to "psychics", I am quite cynical.

originally posted by: Darkblade71
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Well that was constructive....

You've been poking at people in this thread and I am not sure why other than to rile the "psychics" up and be a half troll,
and not really contribute anything other than being cynical about it other than this quote:

Who said anything about "showing off"? If someone is actually "psychic", proving so would be incredibly valuable to science.

Which was semi-condescending but had a valid point,
mainly having to do with it being valuable to science.

But honestly, at this point, if you just believe it is all a bunch of BS,
why are you still poking for reactions?
Does it make you feel good?
Do you think others are out there reading it and lurking and agreeing with you?

It's a feel good thing isn't it...
You are entitled to your opinion,
but add something worth while instead of just poking and prodding people who are "psychic"....

Its a bit like "Show us a miracle Jesus" When something really psychic happens their are no" ifs or butts." Its self evident and very heads up. If someone has never experienced it, their frame of reference could never comprehend that such things can happen until it happens to them and then becomes subjective to their frame of reference. First you have to accept that such things are possible, if you don't they will never happen to you, because it might shake your comfort zone and cause you to revaluate your concept of reality, and not many want to handle that sort of shake up.

Everything can be denied or accepted, we are already living in a paranormal reality, where the speed of light is absolute, and time varies depending upon the speed of the observer. Where the quantum particle can be in two places at once . It's already weird, so I don't blame someone for trying to deny, they cant handle the truth.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

A lot of these people claim it because we all have it,
or so I believe.
Don't ask me why science has not figured it out yet if the common person can figure it out somewhat on their own.
I never understood that myself.

I don't blame people for not believing it, if they have never experienced it.
But a lot of people HAVE experienced it for themselves in one way or another.

When a person is cynical though, it does not help either cause, for science, or for psychic.

a reply to: VoidHawk

I don't believe 100% anything that is put on television - Psychic Detectives (and other shows similar), are usually scripted, and while they might be based on "true events", the events were more than likely skewed so that it looked better on camera. IE: Psychic in real life says a month prior to finding a kid: "Go check this house, you will find him". On an episode dealing with this case, they make the psychic struggle to find the location of the kid within two days of their disappearance (because what good is a TV show without drama and plot twists?).

What causes me to believe is what I have experienced on my own - I can't tell you how many times I would have a realistic dream, write it down as I recalled it upon awakening, only to have it play out weeks, months, (or in the case of my last incident, 2-3 years after the date). I can't tell you why I was able to see ghosts, and sense them; I just can. And astral projection is a forte of mine.

Now, why don't I do the Randi challenge, if I'm so confident in my own abilities? Quite simply, I don't have enough data myself to even identify the "ideal" test conditions (apart from the whole "I could care less about the 1 million dollars" mentality). Although some people claim it's impossible, you can actually be psychic and yet, still follow the scientific method to try to reproduce your results.

For example, when I attempt a conscious projection, I try to keep a record of the following:
1. State of mind (meaning, were any thoughts on my mind at the time)
2. State of physical body (am I relaxed? Tense? Sick? Any discomfort?).
3. What time of day was the attempt made?
4. Temperature of room (when I can remember to).
5. Any form of noise to concentrate on? (Fan, music, white noise?)
6. What did I eat.
7. What method did I use?

With the above, I can actually map out when I am most likely to succeed in a conscious attempt. I can check to see if the foods I've eaten play a role into the chances that I will be able to project. So, there you have it: Proof by my own experimentation (On the side - I found in my own studies of night-time projection attempts that listening to soft music had a positive effect on my conscious projection attempts. I also found that after doing the same method for more than two weeks, the amount of conscious projection attempts dropped, indicating my mind started processing the music as "background noise", and I stopped focusing on it).

-foss

PS: For those of you saying "oh, it's simple to do the Randi challenge" - remember, part of the challenge is agreeing to the terms both parties set (regardless of who is doing it - most people claiming to be psychic have never been in a lab environment - just like anything else, you need to be focused, which is hard to do when you aren't in your element). Also, I run into the same problem Randi does with his experiments at my own place of work: In my case, if a client is able to reproduce an issue to no end, it never fails that when I get on the call, they are unable to reproduce it when I am present. I always assume it means that the client did something different while I was on the call, or it never happened. A true scientist would check to make sure that said "client" (psychic) is doing all the steps they did to reproduce the first time, not just "assume" that because they failed, it means that the powers don't exist.

If you enjoy that kind of stuff, Void (that's kinda a stupid way for me to begin..."if you enjoy that kind of stuff?" Derrrrrrrrrrrrfff...you created a whole discussion thread stemming from your interest in it so lemme restart...)

Hey Void, SINCE you get a kick out of these tales I just thought I'd share my favorite one. And since several folks are complaining because "it's television," or "that's all exaggerated," I'm happy to say that my favorite story along these lines happened as is and comes from police records which I am sure are readily available somewhere so if you are one of the people who don't trust what's on TV any more than you trust FEMA, this is an incident that doesn't come from some sensationalistic TV show. Furthermore, I believe it is cited in some of the experiments that everyone was doing in the late 90s early 00s dealing with twins, remember that research fad? It's supposedly evidence of the link twins share throughout life, distance unimportant. Many twins claim to feel when the other is sad, feel physical pain if the other is hurt, and to have the ability to communicate complex thoughts without speaking.

The actual story goes like this...a woman comes home to the apartment she shares with a roommate. There has been a break in and her roomie is nowhere to be found. I think there was a series of rapes and murders in the area or something and this is why upon seeing the place, police immediately treated the absence of the roommate as a time-sensitive abduction. I could be all wrong about the expository info but I think I remember it correctly, anyway it is trivial and has nothing to do with the rest of the story. Anyway when the roomie's twin sister is telephoned across the country to be informed of the crime, she jumps on a plane and goes straight to the city where her sister is missing from. Its a city whenever been to and doesn't know her way around at all. She suddenly tells police to get in the car and drive as she starts naming street intersections, landmarks, and businesses. According to her, she is seeing in her mind exactly what her sister is seeing. After the police figure out with certainty that they're on the right path and indeed have matched her description with a known location, they finish following her directions which go on for some time. As she gives her last commands in an unknown town based solely on her visions, the police spot the girls stolen car in a driveway and for sure, the sister is inside. She is bound and gagged and shocked to see them but acknowledges that while in the car, she just looked out the window and concentrated on her surroundings. Fortunately, her deep concentration somehow triggered- a link the scientists I mentioned above theorize after their experiments, does exist in twins and the phenomenon has many other amazing manifestations.

Now that I've written the story I remember down, I admit I remember it but not as clearly as I thought. If it weren't 1:30am I'd have the patience to try and find it online by searching different combinations of keywords but I guarantee that my recollection is close enough to assure you all it neither adds nor detracts from the truth.

PS Void, I dunno if the program you're talking about is the one I saw but just last month maybe I saw two episodes of a cable show that reenact psychics helping police to recreate a murder live at the crime scene...one was a girl stabbed at a truck stop who waddles to a truck driver, collapses, and dies in his arms as he holds her and tells her, "Its ok, you can let go, I'm here," or something. She thanks him for not letting her be alone as she dies, then dies. The psychic just goes to the stop and concentrates and she sees the whole scene unfold in her mind complete with a view of the suspect, his car, and a partial license plate. And the show is all based on real life cases. Is this the show you're talking about? If you don't know this episode, is the format the same where it could be? If so I can say I saw two episodes that had me glued to the screen like I haven't been in ages. But after they ended and another episode began, I turned it off and told myself I'd had enough and would never watch it again, engaging as it is, and I still feel that way. Having sat through the psychic TWO TIMES already as she takes you through each step of the murder and with each step a detailed explanation of the emotions the victim goes through which I understand doesn't sound like anything important but it is. No other show has done the psychological part and I'm pretty cast-iron-stomached with gore but I tell you what, it is one thing to get through blood and guts but it was so much more difficult to cope with sitting through the psychic giving the point of view of the victim and I could barely cope with the two I saw, I couldn't do it again. It was too disturbing. Hearing about (in these episodes at least) a teenage child fighting for her life, making possible escape plans, realizing she's been brought to the final location, giving one last burst of all she has with her mom and dad as motivation, then realizing she failed, realizing what that means- that this is the moment of her death, acceptance of fate, then as things get sadistic and violent to the maximum degree her pleading with God inside to let her die or go unconscious...it may sound like..."ok, so?!?"...but this added emotional analysis (which unlike my little example above is detailed and unique for each case, not just general emotions all the victims probably go through like I mentioned) added to the normal dramatization of the facts was overwhelming for me and it forced me to visit that place you don't let yourself go when you hear about murder...the place where you picture just how horrific the torture of another human being must be...especially with children as victims of violent torture and murder, my heart and soul aren't strong enough to accept that this happens...instead of losing myself to disenchantment and the insanity of why I just hum with fingers in my ears and this show reminded me why. Whatever though, this whole last paragraph of mine is so nonsensical and hard to follow and it's because I'm remembering just how disturbing these stories were and fumbling to find words to express something unexpressable lol.

At one point me and my wife were having issues because of financial situations and job losses, for some reason my wife decided to go to some psychic's and palm readers, I guess she was hoping they could tell her the future. It was strange because my wife has always been incredibly bright and no one's fool so going to these people was just odd, but go she did and she told me a little later what they had said and it was all utterly general and nonsense except when it came to me, she mentioned me and the woman jumped back in horror and told her "I was the devil", not a devil, THE devil...

I've been called many things by many people but this was a first for me, needless to say apart from making me laugh a lot I am not this mythical person, I'm just a kind old rather too tubby husband and father of a lovely daughter.

The point being that these phonies get to tell desperate people things that are made up nonsense which in some cases will be totally believed and acted upon. They destroy already extremely hurt lives, I once saw a supposed psychic on American TV tell a relative that the child (I think) was dead and had died in water, the relative was destroyed but the child later turned up alive.......(thankfully)

The brain does do some amazing stuff but I've never seen anyone actually prove psychic abilities point blank, maybe if we ever evolve in to a higher state of mind and ability it might happen but to us at present, I don't think so, it all looks great on TV programs but put to the test in real life then suddenly it never happens..

a reply to: Mclaneinc

I fully understand peoples skepticism, and I fully understand how TV works,
I don't fully understand how ESP works though.

I am no great psychic, but I do kind of keep track of what I am doing because it happens a lot within my life, and maybe I will figure it all out someday, but at the age of 44, I still don't have it figured out, and certainly not well enough to take a James Randi challenge or something along those lines, but I have learned enough to know it is real, and can be workable as a person learns and observes. There is a lot more that comes with these experiences than just someone making predictions or giving people readings, at least for myself, that is not what it is about, for me it is about just living my life and co existing with everyone else. I enjoy the extra weirdness, it makes life interesting for me.

People have a lot of misconceptions about the whole experience of being "psychic".
It doesn't always mean a person can tell the future, will know when someone is lying, etc..
Although people who have experienced it a lot, can, if they work with trying to figure it out.

The more in tune a person gets with that side of themselves, the better they become, but it takes a lot of mental work and things like meditation, just lots of mental tinkering and testing, something I don't have time for.
I just prefer to enjoy the experiences when they come, and try to learn from them when it happens.

The brain is an amazing tool, but what is proof, point blank?

I remember someone on ATS asking me once where the next big news event was going to be,
That was the question, so I answered them, just them, everyone else wanted personal information, which annoys the hell out of me, as I don't really like to give people readings anymore, I got burnt out on it many years ago,
anyways, I answered pretty clear on where something was about to occur that would hit world wide news,
and they never answered back...

Do you know how frustrating it is when you do produce something for someone and then they don't respond? Especially when this website can get as heated as it does over these types of threads?

I will never do it again, well, maybe I will if the timing is right, and the question triggers something, but those moments are rare, and like I said, I don't actively practice and just kind of let things happen although once and a while I might spit out something relevant, but it is just a hobby for me, (The interest in it) and I don't take it all that serious anymore.
Is it real, yeah, it is, no matter what anyone says, I know it is, but can anyone prove it to you?
It depends on how deeply embedded you are in your own comfort zone really.
What I have discovered over the years is that the more cynical a skeptical person is, the less likely that they will accept anything as proof, so when an elusive ability such as the many MANY forms of ESP, works, they disregard it anyways.

This is why people who practice think it is a waste of time with some people.

originally posted by: ProfessorChaos
a reply to: VoidHawk

Yes, money and even the most short-lived fame are major motivators. I'd like to be clear that I'm not saying that there is no evidence of psychic ability, or that there aren't some pretty amazing hauntings; just that what we're discussing is a television show, and should be treated as such.

***ETA***
As far as psychics go, most of those used on investigations prove to be little more than fanciful flakes looking for attention.

There is only one show currently on that I feel is legit. That show is The Dead Files, with the ex-New York cop and the girl Psychic.

originally posted by: AlexandrosTheGreat

Hi AlexandrosTheGreat.

First of all

Since you get a kick out of this show

I should explain a little. I don't normally watch tv, I don't even own one, but now and again I dog sit for a friend and while at his place I dig through his little black box that he records tv onto. I noticed a long list of the Psychic police episodes and decided to watch one. At the end of the show the policeman told just how accurate the psychic had been. If the policeman had not made that comment at the end of the show I wouldn't have bothered watching another, however, his statement intrigued me so I let the box continue to the next episode, and again I saw a psychic being very accurate, and again the show came to an end with another policeman explaining how accurate the psychic had been. I ended up watching all of them!

I didn't watch because "I got a kick out of them", I watched because I am suspicious of what they use the tv for!
If you don't watch television for a long time, it loses it spell on you, and then when you do watch it again, you can't help but notice the way it plants thoughts and ideas in to the viewers mind. With the psychic episodes I started out wanting to know what they were pushing.

As it turned out I couldn't find anything being pushed, other than the idea that (some) psychics are genuine. That idea was re-enforced by the appearance of senior policeman at the end of each show telling the viewer how accurate the psychic had been.

As I mentioned in the op, I'm on the fence when it concerns psychics. I'm prepared to be open minded about it, but when I see a person hold their hand over a picture in a newspaper and claim they are getting messages from the picture I can't help but think BS. Why? Because a newspaper picture isn't really even a picture, its just a series of ink dots, it has no connection to a person whatsoever!
Swinging pendulums and newspaper pictures just don't convince me.

However!
When a lady walks into a police station and tells them she's just had visions of a girl being murdered, and tells the police where they can find the body, and they don't believe her so she goes and looks and finds the body, and the police arrest her on suspicion of murder!!! Well, that gets my attention, and so does a whole bunch of senior policeman putting their careers on the line by going on tv to say they believe in psychics!

I suppose thats really why I posted the thread, I wanted to know what other people thought, especially considering so many policeman were holding their hands up and saying its real!
Either the tv was up to its old tricks and trying to push something, or maybe some of these people are genuine.

PS Void, I dunno if the program you're talking about is the one I saw

It sounds very similar, but thankfully without all the horrific detail.

Read up on Paramahansa Yogananda.
A Saint Guru but I'm sure there is plenty you could learn about psychic perception by reading books by him.
For psychic just substitute sensitive.
Plenty of fakes, plenty real ones who have been studied by science.
Everyone has intuitions so who would deny the fact of their own experience?
If you read generally and eliminate any bias I think your understanding would progress.
However, I am against quasi science as well and healthy scepticism is fine if not an end to itself.
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

a reply to: VoidHawk I cannot speak for anyone else but myself, I can honestly say that I am genuine.

I am a Psychic Medium with 37 years in the field and 90% accuracy.

I have helped crack several major cases in the recent past.
I was never recognized for what I did to assist, but I don't really care about that.
I did my job.

My Abilities are Genetically given.

I cannot say anything more beyond this.

Believe as you will, but this is my truth.

a reply to: hellobruce

Why do people think it is real? Because they saw it on tv, so it must be true!

Funny how none of the fake "psychics" are able to win the One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge - which they could easily win if they were really psychics!

Real psychics in real world would never do such a thing and consequently end up several hundred feet in a secret undeground base as a lab rat for the rest of their life. Remember, they are psychics, they know their possible outcomes. They rather play lottery and win several hundred dollars each time in different locations and go unnoticed.

That said, I think what you see on tv is for entertainment purpose ONLY.