Adam & Eve... The Moral Of The Forbidden Fruit.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

you cannot achieve divine righteousness without knowing about good and evil plus the consequences. you cannot earn a degree unless you attend the necessary classes an exams. i'm all for knowledge and progress. hiding knowledge from the man is a crime and advocating it would justify a given opponent of religions who'd claim that religions are tools used to oppress the masses.

there's no salvation but man's salvation through progress. man's salvation is the cure for cancer and other ailments. man's salvation is ftl and colonization of new worlds. man's salvation is, in a nutshell, knowledge and wisdom. man is his own jesus or devil.

a reply to: [post=19541484]jamsession
Just as Adam was unable to produce works of the Knowledge of Good and Evil until eating the fruit, man cannot attain Divine Righteousness via progression of works. Divine Righteousness must be given to us by God through Christ.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

In other words, the ends don't justify the means?

The tree is a metaphor for our body senses that travel up and down our spine. We were allowed to eat all fruits (senses) except the apple (sexual energy) which caused us to degrade back into animal birth and death sequence. Thus its pleasure, not knowledge the Torah tells, led to man's downfall.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Pretty much Krazy, I've always been long winded though.

What if there wasnt any moral to the story. Or maybe the moral was pick the winning side even if they keep you in the dark.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
Ever hear the expression you either die the hero or live to see yourself become the villain.

The knowledge of good and evil is like that. The curtain drops but the world spins on, and none of it matters at all.

The knowledge of good and evil is the language of con-fusion.

Maybe God didn't want man to gain knowledge of good and evil because man would eventually realize God is not a good god at all.

God, in the Catholic/Christian religion is omnipotent. Knows all, past, present, and future. You know, he "has a plan". It's "gods will". All that good stuff.

So, if this is true then God was well aware that the fruit would be eaten, before Adam and Eve were even created. Contemplate that for a minute. Let that sink in. What are the implications of this?

Either a) God is a sadistic evil god who purposely created man knowing that he would disobey, or more accurately, purposely created man to fail. Then punished man for behaving exactly how he was created to behave.

Or B) God is not omnipotent and genuinely didn't know what the outcome would be, thus diminishing the greatness of god and his alleged perfection.

Please don't try and move the goalposts around with the free will argument. Either he is omnipotent or he isn't. There is no middle ground.

We are told that man was created in his (Gods) image. We are like God, yet not quite gods. What was the one thing we were forbidden, and more importantly, WHY was god so adamant about us not gaining this knowledge? Could it be we would become too close to becoming gods ourselves? Was it simply Gods jealousy and selfishness at play here?

We know from the old testament that God was a jealous god. Jealous, vengeful, spiteful, murderous. All sins according to God. What is it God did not want us to realize?

a reply to: Primordial
lol! Were do you get this stuff?

Maybe God didn't want man to gain knowledge of good and evil because man would eventually realize God is not a good god at all.

In reality there is no good and evil, all of that was invented and is part of the language of confusion. So yes God is not good, nobody is, nor will they ever be. All of that is a base interpretations of things.

God, in the Catholic/Christian religion is omnipotent. Knows all, past, present, and future. You know, he "has a plan". It's "gods will". All that good stuff.

All religions are man made. So yes, totally dude god is like all knowing. And the ninja turtles always come out on top of shredder, and everything is all honky dorry. Its all just created, in some cases, literally out of thin air.

So, if this is true then God was well aware that the fruit would be eaten, before Adam and Eve were even created. Contemplate that for a minute. Let that sink in. What are the implications of this?

Well ya! Duh! Everybody and there grandmother, and the great spaghetti monster in the next universe knew that the fruit would be eaten, the last to know would generally be the one who did the deed. But for the most part its all a metaphor.

Either a) God is a sadistic evil god who purposely created man knowing that he would disobey, or more accurately, purposely created man to fail. Then punished man for behaving exactly how he was created to behave.

Or he created man, then went on to create billions of other things on far away galaxies or universes. And well etc etc. Does the gardener or farmer cry that one of his plants on his 10 acre plant does is not like he wanted it to be. Nope you rip it out and plant a new one in the spot. Good and evil does not enter into the picture as it does not matter to god, or the gods.

Or B) God is not omnipotent and genuinely didn't know what the outcome would be, thus diminishing the greatness of god and his alleged perfection.

Or C: Does not give a #.

We are told that man was created in his (Gods) image. We are like God, yet not quite gods. What was the one thing we were forbidden, and more importantly, WHY was god so adamant about us not gaining this knowledge? Could it be we would become too close to becoming gods ourselves? Was it simply Gods jealousy and selfishness at play here?

No all of that is a story you all have created. If there was a god, its more like the Gardner scenario were god plants the seeds of life then moves on. The rest is all you.

We know from the old testament that God was a jealous god. Jealous, vengeful, spiteful, murderous. All sins according to God. What is it God did not want us to realize?

So your saying that god is a hypocritical lying compulsive psychopath incapable of seeing anything but his own reflections...Hmm. Reminds me of something...The human race. As they say the apple does not fall far from the tree.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs
The forbidden fruit is not called "knowledge", but "knowledge of good and evil".
I think this is a Hebraism for "knowing which is which, knowing the boundary line between them".
In other words, they were deciding for themselves what was the right or wrong thing to do, instead of accepting God's judgement.
The act of picking the fruit s a very apt symbol of that. God said "It is bad, you must not eat." They said "It is good, we will eat it". Making their own choice. The medium is the message.
I've done a thread on this; "The tree of what knowledge?"

Let us stop pretending that God wanted to be listened too.

And that everything is not unfolding as was planned.

And that GOD does not exist in any of the forms people think...and admit the fact that it is irrelevant to follow it, or not too follow it.

Such a waste of time believing any of this leads to any truth or closure for ANYTHING.

In the beginning, man was like any animal. This was "eden", the primordial state of being, unburdened by knowledge or doubt or hope or tradition etc, etc.

Then he "ate from the tree of knowledge." Or knowledge of good and evil, if you want to be a stickler. This represents the cognitive revolution, becoming self aware. It's an ongoing process really, culminating in this post-modern era of alienation. This is the fall.

But, it's no use going back, just take another bite and let the march of progress continue. We can't unlearn what we know now. And I don't think we should either. The most important thing is to always keep moving forward. And maybe then we can eat from that second tree as well and truly be like gods.

That's how I like to interpret the story.

a reply to: ParasuvO
If it is not relevant to discuss this, why are you discussing it?
You do what you like, and we will do the same.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
Ever notice how good deeds are often used to accomplish evil and evil is used to accomplish good? This is because the knowledge of good and evil is a relativity paradigm, just like a two party political system. God was trying teach Adam divine righteousness, which supersedes the good-evil paradigm.

God is the author or Divine Righteousness. Satan is the author of the Knowledge of Good an Evil.

YOU, actually gave me something to think about aswell as the OP.


Im very interested in this divive righteousness bit. Because so far, the knowledge of good and evil has doomed us all.

a reply to: SoulSurfer

Glad to provide food for thought. Adam was created in a state of neutrality: no Divine Righteousness, and no Knowledge of Good and Evil. This was done purposely so that he could choose one or the other...eternal life or dying death.

This is why Chriatians believe that Jesus died as payment for our sins. When we express faith in Him, our fallen nature of Good and Evil dies with Him and we are placed in union with His resurrection. So His Divine Righteousness is shared with those who believe in His work on the cross, resulting in eternal life.

In physical life, we still struggle between the two natures: good-evil and Divine Righteousness. But when the believer dies, he is left only with the Divine Righteousness.

Its like a spiritual transplantation of natures. Union with Christ is the grafting of Divine Righteousness...like a skin graft or stem cell transplant.

The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is not literal.The nature of man is religious(to believe through faith is to perceive through observation).The amalgamation of ALL of a persons experiences forms their belief through faith of “their” Belief System religion.

That belief through faith is the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.It is mans “perception” of life by their Belief System religion by which they “judge” their existence.That judgement by perception of observation is death because they live in the material realm (the physical universe made of matter) which is the valley of the shadows of death.Everything in the material universe was born to die.

In other words the story of Adam and Eve (and the tree) is a statement of allegorical facts of the life of mankind not a literal story.There was not literal “tree” growing in a literal garden of Eden.There was no literal serpent tempting them.Adam did not “chose” eternal life or dying.That is proposterous what sane person would chose eternal death over life.

All of mankind has eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil(their Belief System religion)….which result is Hades (the realm of death and imperception of truth).It is all a part of a much larger process of life like a conception.
Mans life in the material realm/universe is “like” a spermatozoon cell that’s purpose is to “mate”(marry) an egg to form a zygote.When it is consummated the zygote grows by multiplying cells to grow to an embryo then a fetus then when it is fully formed inside the womb it is born(delivered/saved) to LIFE.It is a process that involes zero choice.None chose to become a human and be concieved in the womb of their mother and neither is anyone choosing the conception they are in now.It is happening to them not by them.

All life is formed through a universal process depending on the type of life it is.Some life is very simple (monads)Others grow into complex life forms because of the fullness of the process.It all starts from seed(fruit).

The narrative of Adam(man) and Eve(the mother of all life) is about the beginning of that process of life.It is not about the fallen character of man (Adam) because he performed an act of obedience that doomed all of mankind to pay a “punishment” of eternal death.That is a myth created by the religious carnal mind to justify their religious choice.

It is a simple metaphoric statement of this “unknowable journey” mankind is on inside the womb/matrix of the physical realm.The fact is nothing man perceives by observation can be qualified as “true reality”.It is a delusional illusion seen through the eyes of death.There is no way to truly know what “life” is when someone is dead.That is all of mankinds dilemma.

There are many that are completely deluded because they believe they have been “born again” in newness of life yet they are even more dead.The truth is the true reality of LIFE is metaphysical..beyond the physical realms perception.Physicist have been trying to unravel the mystery of life IN the physical universe and have come a long way from where they were in understanding but are still far,far,far short of truth …and they “know” this.It is the proverbial tail chasing itself.

The only way to know the true reality LIFE is to experience it which means to die to the life man is living in the physical realm and be born into LIFE.It is the spiral circle of life.All efforts to circumvent this process through “religion” are futile and foolish because being religious is part of the process.The death man dies in the physical realm will be to shed the mortal coil and the death of their religions Belief System.

This is the crux of what Yahoshua proclaimed..the coming of the kingdom of the creator God.It is not “somewhere out there” nor is it here “in” you (like Alien) it is IN your midst and beyond your grasp because the religious carnal mind can’t perceive it through observation (your Belief System religion) it can only be “known” through experience that is void of any religion.
That is the kingdom of the (your) heavens…when your mind is freed from the bondage(the definition of forgiveness) of religion.Yahoshua called this forgiveness entering the wide gate of destruction where your religion is destroyed then you can enter the narrow gate(know truth) that leads to LIFE.

In essence man is being tormented(which is the word translated from basanizo which means a touch stone which is the test of the quality of metals).The Good news is everyone will pass the test but differently.Some will be made of gold(those who died to their religion) others of tin(those who’s life in the physical realm was made of their religion).Being born anew is the formation of a persons character through a new nature not born of religion(sin…falling short of the mark of maturity).

The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is mans food they eat of to grow their religion.That is why Yahoshua said eat of his body and drink his blood (the creator God’s deliverance /salvation) it wasn’t literal.It was the new LIFE of the new nature.The Good news is ALL of mankind will eat of this food not just the self righteous, self chosen few that believe they already have eaten of it but haven’t.They are just eating the corrupt fruit of their tree of the knowledge of good and evil….death…their religion.Yahoshua spoke of this :

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.”

The allegory of the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve has various levels of meaning.


The highest is the description of the metaphysical elements that created the matrix we live and suffer in and how and why they got corrupted

Being an allegory means that the terms are highly suggestive and symbolic of the literal psychic elements of our inner being

i wonder if eve was hot?

a reply to: Primordial

You don't even know what god is the fact that you see god as separate from you shows your ignorance there is no evil or good in God's eyes everything just is.

a reply to: Artbellfan

Eve was most likely a very hairy African women one of the earliest hominids. Check this out the women we get all our mitochondrial DNA from aka eve en.m.wikipedia.org...