Existentialism, Capitalism, Socialism, Democracy, Eugenics & Faith - Enough room for everyone.

Their are only 2 roads for the Existentialist, Genetics or Ideology. If it is genetics then you must accept Eugenics. If it is Ideology shouldn't it be Love?

Whether you believe that Love is devine or not, Love is a better Ideology then any form of Forced Ideology. In the spiritual texts forced conversions to one's law is forbidden. The religious texts are non-totalitarian.

If some want test tube babies, that is a matter of the flesh, the majority can decide if we allow science to intervene. If 51% want test tube babies why would we stand in the way? This should be voted on. But even if only one couple remains that wish to procreate by natural means, this should remain protected.

For the existentialist, even if mankind moves towards Eugenics we should not infringe upon the rights of a couple to leave procreation as a matter of faith. You would no more want their religious views imposed on you then they want your exestentialist views imposed on them.

In order to satisfy the different personalities I think we need a new form of Government.

"Freemarket Social Democracy" The market will be separated into Capital Commodities and Social Commodities.

1. Capital Commodities

They will be run by Controlled Capitalism, regulated by a min wage, a maximum wage, maximum total individual monetary wealth, and corporate monetary assets not to exceed X% of Gross. All other non environmental aspects will be left to free trade.

2. Social Commodities

These will be run by, "Social Capitalism". Human rights to basic food, shelter and medical services. Social programs will be run in the same way Capital programs are run. They will be for profit entities. However they are social programs so they will be run by elected experts, not politicians. Some elected positions should come with prerequisites of having served in the industry. Just like in the regular job market.

They will run exactly like a for profit organization, however their pay will be regulated by the people, and the profits returned to us. And we will demand our elected leaders to cut the costs and labor associated until our scientists are satisfied we have reached our current technological limits.

Specialty food items, free standing single homes with land, and non essential medical procedures will remain in a wage regulated Free Market Social Democracy.

I am tired of hearing we can't build Utopia. We haven't even tried. How can the existentialist not build Utopia and How can the faithful not believe in it?

Anyone who says we can't build Utopia is faithless. No faith in yourself and certainly no faith in God. We can build Utopia because we have freewill & God is on our side.

We don't have to fight for Utopia, we need to vote for it. Then we will build what the majority call Utopia.

If we need to protect the Faithful from Eugenics, and protect the Existentialist from the Faithful, then we will do that also.

It is ok to have different opinions, it makes us stronger and wiser. The Ideology of Love and Reason will unite us without forced conversions. Love will allow for the democratic process, because Love agrees to dissagee for the sake of peace. And peace is a better ideology then judgment.

Some say we are destined for destruction, I say we have freewill!

A prayer of Peace to all mankind on this independence day. May freewill, logic and reason prevail over insanity.

a reply to: Isurrender73

Although I may not agree with a lot of what you say or understand it I like that your a least trying to problem solve rather than just give in and we can't do it.

In order to achieve total utopian society we need to unilaterally live a somewhat Christlike existence.

What I mean by that is we must all live the life of a servant and put others needs above our own.

The idea of profit will have to die in said scenario.

This is just a synopsis.

a reply to: onequestion

We can't truly build Utopia because not all have the same motivation. This is a compromise that gets us close and incentives that encourage the builders to keep building.

I like competition and incentives for hard work. And I want to make more then the person below me in the chain of command. I love Capitalism, it is a fun game until greed sets in, then it becomes insanity. If we control the greed we control the insanity.

Competition and Cooperation can work together. We don't need to be one or the other. We can be both and live harmoniously.

a reply to: Isurrender73

I can define utopia in 4 words: The End of Evolution. A society becomes utopian when it decides to beat the evolutionary game, when it decides it has arrived and its reached a state of completion, where things are good enough and we don't have to change. Peace, happiness, all this are the end of change. Change is pain, evolution is change, and therefore evolution is pain.

We humans are the product of a 3 billion year old evolutionary algorithm here on earth, who's mechanisms have reached far beyond genetics let alone eugenics. The include epigenetics, and most importantly, they include intelligence, where we can even do things like genetic engineering... But we must never think we have this game beat, that we have it figured and can engineer things without disaster. The last collective attempt to engineer humanity in Nazi times would have sent Einstein to a concentration camp, due his intellectual inferiority, and almost did. We are not smarter than this 4 billion year old algorithm.

Advancement of the human race therefore must come through this natural algorithm, and that will include population surges, disasters, die offs, with only the fittest surviving all of it and passing on their ways. That's how its gone down for billions of years, and that's how it goes on now, and its always vast suffering that fuels the machine. When the suffering stops the machine stops, and we (or post-humans) get to utopia, it will be the end of change on earth.

My two cents.

Competition is blood lust. Plain and simple. It what makes us unintelligent animals.

Cooperation on the other hand is loving. Its what makes us intelligent and divine human beings.


So long as there is corruption democracy is rigged... How are we going to be able to vote for utopia in a corrupt democracy? Its a nice idea but it hasn't worked.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: onequestion

We can't truly build Utopia because not all have the same motivation. This is a compromise that gets us close and incentives that encourage the builders to keep building.

I like competition and incentives for hard work. And I want to make more then the person below me in the chain of command. I love Capitalism, it is a fun game until greed sets in, then it becomes insanity. If we control the greed we control the insanity.

Competition and Cooperation can work together. We don't need to be one or the other. We can be both and live harmoniously.

Very wise words.

Because people have differences on ideals, motivations, and beliefs will always prevent this "impossible Utopia".

That can only be accomplished through Tyranny and Genocide and that was tried often in the 20th century and I fear will come around again when those who want this grand Utopia (there Utopia and beliefs and rules that is) will begin the same old persecution, tyranny, and genocide we seen far too often in recent history.

a reply to: infolurker

It can only be accomplished through self sacrifice.

a reply to: infolurker

But we can build a democratically voted on semi-Utopia.

Maybe once people start to realize we CAN build a democratic Utopia people will be more likely to compromise.

I know compromise is asking a lot of humanity, but that is where my faith kicks in. You can't be told yes if you don't at least ask the question.

Your "controlled capitalism" is unworkable. We have those "social commodoties" already. You seem to not understand exactly what eugentics is, or was. I seriously doubt involuntary eugentics will ever be practiced in America again. We're going to move gradually into genetically-engineered babies.
a reply to: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Parthin96
Your "controlled capitalism" is unworkable. We have those "social commodoties" already. You seem to not understand exactly what eugentics is, or was. I seriously doubt involuntary eugentics will ever be practiced in America again. We're going to move gradually into genetically-engineered babies.
a reply to: Isurrender73

Eugenics

The idea that one can improve the human race by careful selection of those who mate and produce offspring.

I compared Eugenics to test tube babies, what have I misunderstood?

Basic food and housing is run by a capitalist system, not a socialist sysrem. There are 80,000 homeless in LA alone because we haven't socialized even basic housing.

Utopia can exist amongst man, as long as another man doesn't interfere with it linky

I wish people would stop using the word utopia, first because it has become a weapon to ridicule any will of change, and also because the definition of the word itself means "no place".

Utopia can never be attained, it can only be something that we strive for, a star in the sky that we follow without ever touching it. We will never solve ALL problems, we will never get rid of ALL injustices. Perfection is an ideal and nothing else.

a reply to: gosseyn

Especially if you keep bitching about a single word. Utopia is only imaginary because man made it impossible.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: infolurker

It can only be accomplished through self sacrifice.

LOL, usually that "self-sacrifice" is done by those who disagree with the Utopian vision.

Usually the people saying that are not speaking about themselves sacrificing a damned thing but making others pay the ultimate sacrifice.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
Their are only 2 roads for the Existentialist, Genetics or Ideology. If it is genetics then you must accept Eugenics. If it is Ideology shouldn't it be Love?

Whether you believe that Love is devine or not, Love is a better Ideology then any form of Forced Ideology. In the spiritual texts forced conversions to one's law is forbidden. The religious texts are non-totalitarian.

If some want test tube babies, that is a matter of the flesh, the majority can decide if we allow science to intervene. If 51% want test tube babies why would we stand in the way? This should be voted on. But even if only one couple remains that wish to procreate by natural means, this should remain protected.

For the existentialist, even if mankind moves towards Eugenics we should not infringe upon the rights of a couple to leave procreation as a matter of faith. You would no more want their religious views imposed on you then they want your exestentialist views imposed on them.

In order to satisfy the different personalities I think we need a new form of Government.

"Freemarket Social Democracy" The market will be separated into Capital Commodities and Social Commodities.

1. Capital Commodities

They will be run by Controlled Capitalism, regulated by a min wage, a maximum wage, maximum total individual monetary wealth, and corporate monetary assets not to exceed X% of Gross. All other non environmental aspects will be left to free trade.

2. Social Commodities

These will be run by, "Social Capitalism". Human rights to basic food, shelter and medical services. Social programs will be run in the same way Capital programs are run. They will be for profit entities. However they are social programs so they will be run by elected experts, not politicians. Some elected positions should come with prerequisites of having served in the industry. Just like in the regular job market.

They will run exactly like a for profit organization, however their pay will be regulated by the people, and the profits returned to us. And we will demand our elected leaders to cut the costs and labor associated until our scientists are satisfied we have reached our current technological limits.

Specialty food items, free standing single homes with land, and non essential medical procedures will remain in a wage regulated Free Market Social Democracy.

I am tired of hearing we can't build Utopia. We haven't even tried. How can the existentialist not build Utopia and How can the faithful not believe in it?

Anyone who says we can't build Utopia is faithless. No faith in yourself and certainly no faith in God. We can build Utopia because we have freewill & God is on our side.

We don't have to fight for Utopia, we need to vote for it. Then we will build what the majority call Utopia.

If we need to protect the Faithful from Eugenics, and protect the Existentialist from the Faithful, then we will do that also.

It is ok to have different opinions, it makes us stronger and wiser. The Ideology of Love and Reason will unite us without forced conversions. Love will allow for the democratic process, because Love agrees to dissagee for the sake of peace. And peace is a better ideology then judgment.

Some say we are destined for destruction, I say we have freewill!

A prayer of Peace to all mankind on this independence day. May freewill, logic and reason prevail over insanity.

Hugh?