At Age 3 — Transitioning From Jack To Jackie

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Annee
Still here

Just following now.

You've had popcorn and snacks, right?

Annee, what do you think about all this? There's a ton of reading and information in this thread but has any of it opened your eyes, shown you anything or helped you to form an opinion? Have you been bored to death? Have you gained insight into transsexual matters and people?

I think we're all a little bit awestruck about Jade and her inspirational family story. It's hard not to be. Anything else?

Well. I have more story, but don't want to derail the thread. I was 5 when my mom contracted polio my brothers and I were 6, 5, and 4 months. My gramma took care of us. My dad ran off with another woman. Prior to the disability act, people could treat the disabled any way they wanted. And they did.

The important part is I grew up in a Friendship Club of people with all kinds of physical challenges. I learned early "People Are Their Heart". From there it was easy for me to accept "differences" and to educate my personal knowledge.

I greatly appreciate first hand knowledge and those who offer it.

I also like a Happy Ending ---- even if it really is a beginning

originally posted by: babybunnies
Sorry, but at THREE, you don't have an original thought.

This is totally parent driven, not parent approved.

So did you have to be told you were a girl or a boy before you knew you were?

originally posted by: EKron
a reply to: TamaraAndBrian

Thank you both for your interesting and informative answers to my questions. It should be a helpful road map for someone that might be in a similar situation. I was just curious to know if you had looked into any of this when Jade was younger and were somewhat prepared for it but see you indeed started from scratch.

With all that was done, you've really gone above and beyond the call to give your daughter the best in life. I'm not the only one here that thinks you and your family deserve the highest praise. Jade thinks I did something brave and pioneering back in the day but to me, you all are my heroes.

(Brian here, Jade's dad)

That's our hope, the only way to really understand this stuff is through education. From what we've noticed when people get to know our family a lot of the criticism melts away. A lot of that is due to Jade to be honest. We've provided the support she needed and she has done brilliantly.

I don't want to toot my own horn but I bought her her first telescope and we used to go out on hot summer nights like we've had recently and just look at the sky and marvel at it. She could name all the northern constellations by the time she was 10 or 11. Now she's well on her way to becoming a professional astronomer.

If you or anyone else have any questions feel free to ask. Tamara and I just finished dinner.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TamaraAndBrian

Thanks to both of you, Tamara and Brian.

JadeStar is a wonderful girl. I have told her that, too.
Well done, both of you!!!

(This is Tamara, Jade's Mom)

Thank YOU! We are very proud of her!

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Annee
Still here

Just following now.

You've had popcorn and snacks, right?

Annee, what do you think about all this? There's a ton of reading and information in this thread but has any of it opened your eyes, shown you anything or helped you to form an opinion? Have you been bored to death? Have you gained insight into transsexual matters and people?

I think we're all a little bit awestruck about Jade and her inspirational family story. It's hard not to be. Anything else?

Well. I have more story, but don't want to derail the thread. I was 5 when my mom contracted polio my brothers and I were 6, 5, and 4 months. My gramma took care of us. My dad ran off with another woman. Prior to the disability act, people could treat the disabled any way they wanted. And they did.

The important part is I grew up in a Friendship Club of people with all kinds of physical challenges. I learned early "People Are Their Heart". From there it was easy for me to accept "differences" and to educate my personal knowledge.

I greatly appreciate first hand knowledge and those who offer it.

I also like a Happy Ending ---- even if it really is a beginning

(This is Tamara)

Like I always say and tell all of my children, life challenges us. We don't always get to choose the challenge but we always grow through them and their good for the soul!

Jade's childhood challenges are behind her, and now she will have a whole new set of challenges. But those challenges probably won't have much to do with her past but with her future. Now that she is happy, healthy and full of light, kindness and love I know that she is going to be fine.

originally posted by: TamaraAndBrian

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Annee
Still here

Just following now.

You've had popcorn and snacks, right?

Annee, what do you think about all this? There's a ton of reading and information in this thread but has any of it opened your eyes, shown you anything or helped you to form an opinion? Have you been bored to death? Have you gained insight into transsexual matters and people?

I think we're all a little bit awestruck about Jade and her inspirational family story. It's hard not to be. Anything else?

Well. I have more story, but don't want to derail the thread. I was 5 when my mom contracted polio my brothers and I were 6, 5, and 4 months. My gramma took care of us. My dad ran off with another woman. Prior to the disability act, people could treat the disabled any way they wanted. And they did.

The important part is I grew up in a Friendship Club of people with all kinds of physical challenges. I learned early "People Are Their Heart". From there it was easy for me to accept "differences" and to educate my personal knowledge.

I greatly appreciate first hand knowledge and those who offer it.

I also like a Happy Ending ---- even if it really is a beginning

(This is Tamara)

Like I always say and tell all of my children, life challenges us. We don't always get to choose the challenge but we always grow through them and their good for the soul!

Jade's childhood challenges are behind her, and now she will have a whole new set of challenges. But those challenges probably won't have much to do with her past but with her future. Now that she is happy, healthy and full of light, kindness and love I know that she is going to be fine.

Thanks Mom!!!

a reply to: MoreBeer

I couldn't have said that better myself

a reply to: TamaraAndBrian
Hello,
I understand that you wanted to speak with me. I do have a question for you. As a devout Christian, how do you justify supporting you're son's pursuit self feminization?

originally posted by: JadeStar
Yeah, yeah. Rub it in why don't ya!

----

Sorry. I wasn't trying to. I was just expressing how happy I was about those crucial decisions. I can certainly understand your envy and I will be more reserved with talking about that with you in the future. Please accept my sincerest apology. I probably should have known better as another older lady of a similar background as yourself expressed similar envious feelings regarding the decision to postpone puberty.

Whoa there! I think I said that wrong or you took it wrong? I think you are the luckiest girl in the world! Hell yes, I'm nine shades of green 'til Tuesday but I certainly don't feel bad or need an apology or for you to ever feel you have to be reserved in what you say to me. Please!

It was pretty terrible but it did not completely destroy my body and for all the negatives and things I wished didn't happen, there was one and only one that did which turned out to be something life changing for the positive and of incalculable value measuring my overall satisfaction, happiness and quality of the life I've had. It was an inexplicable fluke but it wins over any downside or hassles or personal inconvenience dealing with the rest of it and I probably wouldn't still be around if not for it.

I know! And in that way you are so lucky! I hope someday to have children too. But that's a long way off.

You know, I've avoided going there just because it's so damn confusing to people but probably not half as much as it is confusing to me. Doesn't quite fit the narrative somehow and I can't quite say I understand it either but in the way you can't imagine your life without hormone blockers, I can't imagine my life without my babies.

Knowing what I know now if I could go back in time and be given the choice to take hormone blockers or never have the chance to raise my own wonderful daughter even if I had to make sacrifices, it wouldn't be a tough decision for me. Nothing in my life has meant as much or been as important. It's been a blessing and a miracle and humbling and fulfilling and made my life complete and rich beyond wealth. I didn't have the advantage of puberty blockers but the consolation prize has been equally as awesome.

So now that we've gone there and the last bit of ain't no body's business has been breached (by me), I have a beautiful loving daughter of my own, just about to turn 41 and a kickass grandson that's 18 that just graduated high school. My daughter learned of the biological nature of our relationship when she was around 8 and my grandson when he was 14 who just said "that's weird" then went back to playing Xbox. Without this love in my life that has kept me grounded and filled in some of the empty spots in my heart and smoothed over some pain of growing up, I don't even know if I'd be here at all?

So like I figured, "if she could be a beautiful actress and did science on the side, then I can be a beautiful scientist right?"

You can be anything, kiddo, and anybody with half a brain can see that you're going to go far! I told you a while back you'd have my vote when you run for president but as I've gotten to know you a little more, that job might be a little beneath you?

nor are all women of transsexual history that did have to go through male puberty "men in a dress with a deep voice and five o'clock shadow". Ouch! ----

Oh. Um, sorry, I didn't mean that they did. I was using an extreme which often gets thrown at transsexual women regardless of whether it's true or not. It's like a stereotype which we all get stuck with once people know our history but perhaps haven't met us face to face, you know what i mean?

And I didn't take it personally at all, so no worries. Just trying to be PC for all those men out there that are in a dress!

So when I realized oh wow, not only have blended in but now I'm sticking out because I'm pretty

We should all have such problems!

I agree it's what's inside that matters most. I think people like us, who had to have some extra help with the outside might understand that more than a lot of people who sometimes can be very judgmental based on how someone looks. I've always hung out with people regardless of how they looked because I was more concerned with how they were as people

^ This

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: TamaraAndBrian
Hello,
I understand that you wanted to speak with me. I do have a question for you. As a devout Christian, how do you justify supporting you're son's pursuit self feminization?

I think you must have the wrong thread? They don't have a son.

You are obviously confused. (very)

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: babybunnies
Sorry, but at THREE, you don't have an original thought.

This is totally parent driven, not parent approved.

So did you have to be told you were a girl or a boy before you knew you were?

I've been honest and have made you aware that I am tailing this thread for creative insight, and getting it in shed loads, thank you all...this point here though, from my perspective, is the money shot (as it were). No one ever had to tell me I was a "girl", equally, no one had to tell me I was attracted to "boys", I was born with both those perspectives fixed. I have never had sufficient reason to doubt my sexuality, let alone my gender, numerous other things but never those two. If we consider that our existence is defined by a system of relational dynamics and that the sense of self is gained by interaction with a series of "others" that help us to build a frame of reference from which to navigate physical and emotional space, then I agree (all things being equal), that a three year old child would be sufficiently self-aware to know that their sense of self was incompatible with the configuration of the interface system they had been born with.

Thanks again.

originally posted by: Anaana
... sense of self was incompatible with the configuration of the interface system they had been born with.

Ooo! I like that line. I'm going to have to steal and use it one of these days! Seems a fair trade for the shed loads of creative insight you're getting, right?

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Anaana
... sense of self was incompatible with the configuration of the interface system they had been born with.

Ooo! I like that line. I'm going to have to steal and use it one of these days! Seems a fair trade for the shed loads of creative insight you're getting, right?

Have you or anyone else watched Sense8 on Netflix yet?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: TamaraAndBrian
Hello,
I understand that you wanted to speak with me. I do have a question for you. As a devout Christian, how do you justify supporting you're son's pursuit self feminization?

Excuse me?

originally posted by: Anaana

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: babybunnies
Sorry, but at THREE, you don't have an original thought.

This is totally parent driven, not parent approved.

So did you have to be told you were a girl or a boy before you knew you were?

I've been honest and have made you aware that I am tailing this thread for creative insight, and getting it in shed loads, thank you all...this point here though, from my perspective, is the money shot (as it were).

Thanks! I am glad I could help. Um as to the rest of your inquiry from a few pages back. Maybe we can talk about it on the collaborative writing forum or short story forum?

No one ever had to tell me I was a "girl", equally, no one had to tell me I was attracted to "boys", I was born with both those perspectives fixed. I have never had sufficient reason to doubt my sexuality, let alone my gender, numerous other things but never those two.

Exactly. And the only time that people seem to question this is cases like the one in the OP or when I was little.

If we consider that our existence is defined by a system of relational dynamics and that the sense of self is gained by interaction with a series of "others" that help us to build a frame of reference from which to navigate physical and emotional space, then I agree (all things being equal), that a three year old child would be sufficiently self-aware to know that their sense of self was incompatible with the configuration of the interface system they had been born with.

Very well said indeed! Hang around please?

Thanks again.

You're welcome. My parents will be on here again around 6pm Pacific.

originally posted by: Anaana
...and that the sense of self is gained by interaction with a series of "others" that help us to build a frame of reference from which to navigate physical and emotional space

I got to thinking about this and began to question. Are you saying one's sense of self is only determined by their interaction with a series of "others" and that we're born as a blank slate? This tends to indicate you feel this "sense of self" is entirely experiential and environmental? Are you discounting innate biological factors or characteristics contribute to the composition of one's sense of self or are they inclusive with your use of "others"? Do we need to have a nature vs. nurture discussion?

Elaborate.

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Anaana
...and that the sense of self is gained by interaction with a series of "others" that help us to build a frame of reference from which to navigate physical and emotional space

I got to thinking about this and began to question. Are you saying one's sense of self is only determined by their interaction with a series of "others" and that we're born as a blank slate? This tends to indicate you feel this "sense of self" is entirely experiential and environmental? Are you discounting innate biological factors or characteristics contribute to the composition of one's sense of self or are they inclusive with your use of "others"? Do we need to have a nature vs. nurture discussion?

Elaborate.

So like, my parents tried to nurture me to be a boy but I always knew I was a girl. That would seem to nullify a nurture hypothesis, at least in my case, wouldn't it?

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Anaana
... sense of self was incompatible with the configuration of the interface system they had been born with.

Ooo! I like that line. I'm going to have to steal and use it one of these days! Seems a fair trade for the shed loads of creative insight you're getting, right?

Have you or anyone else watched Sense8 on Netflix yet?

Marathon watcher here. What an amazing show.

When do we get next season?

originally posted by: JadeStar
So like, my parents tried to nurture me to be a boy but I always knew I was a girl. That would seem to nullify a nurture hypothesis, at least in my case, wouldn't it?

I completely agree. I was just trying to sus out Anaana's comments to see where she was coming from.

Like you, I am not of the belief that anyone or anything made me this way and that I'm not a product of my environment or social conditioning. Although I was given much programming and encouragement to be and act like a boy, there's no doubt and I won't deny I had a lot of contradictory nurture as well so one on must ask, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Who I was inside, and still am BTW, didn't match up so well with the outside but I know my mother and grandmother at least sensed part of the inside me, maybe even on a subconscious level, or I would never have been able to do some of the things I did or was exposed to that most boys weren't. All the signals I got were never mixed and loudly clear - be and act like a boy but at the same time, more often than not I was treated and allowed to do things more to my true my inner self and nature.

Ultimately, as I did not grow up to be a man, my exposure or nurture if you will, to things traditionally reserved for girls worked out pretty well. Did it make me this way? No. It was the other way around. Whatever nurture I did get was because of my nature in spite of the outside package.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Anaana
... sense of self was incompatible with the configuration of the interface system they had been born with.

Ooo! I like that line. I'm going to have to steal and use it one of these days! Seems a fair trade for the shed loads of creative insight you're getting, right?

Have you or anyone else watched Sense8 on Netflix yet?

Marathon watcher here. What an amazing show.

When do we get next season?

Oooooh i wish i knew!! i can't wait.



Also though a completely different genre, I think some people in this thread might want to check out the show called: The Fosters. They've dealt with gender identity several times.