Nikki Haley To Call For Confederate Flag To Be Removed From South Carolina Capitol: Reports

a reply to: Drest

You must have skipped history class or something. Because if you'd actually studied that war, you would know that for the first two years the South actually had the U.S. on the run.... they had them scared sh*tless for a while. The CSA generals were pretty much superior in every way. The only thing the North had was industry, but their leadership was tactically incompetent for the most part.

And you must have stopped reading after you learned that. Because (spoiler alert) in the end the South lost the war. Badly.

In war, it doesn't matter who wins the first battle. What matters is who wins the last one.

The South lost the war. Rinse and repeat until it sinks in.

The Battle Flag of the Northern Army of Virginia does not belong anywhere except in a museum. It is a symbol of traitors. It doesn't belong on t-shirts, on t-towels, on license plates, and it especially doesn't belong on the capitol building of a State that has absolutely no 'heritage' relationship to it unless (I repeat sarcastically) South Carolina thinks it has been under Military Occupation by Army of Virgina since 1865 or something.

a reply to: Seamrog

I love the ignoratti who poo poo all over the stars and bars for their own edification.

Just for YOUR edification, the flag in question is NOT the Stars and Bars.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: seasoul

Slavery/racism is only one small problem with the flag. The flag also represents a time when the Southern states refused to compromise with the Northern states and decided to settle their differences with bullets instead of words.

One small correction here: The South did not decide to settle anything with bullets. The South CEDED from the Union, and the North refused to recognize their secession. It was in fact the NORTH who went to war against the south. So while the North never acknowledged it, the CSA were a separate country for a time and traded with many nations as such.

Makes you wonder if the current USA birth date should be 1776 or 1865... hmm.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

What about the slave owners who are depicted on US currency? Isnt anyone offended by that?

originally posted by: Urantia1111
What about the slave owners who are depicted on US currency? Isnt anyone offended by that?

They don't represent a war fought to continue slavery and oppress a race to me. They represent the founding and governing of our country. So, no, they don't offend me. Maybe someone is offended by them, I don't know. But owning a slave when it was legal and commonly accepted is understandable. Refusing to progress and fighting against equal treatment of all human beings is not acceptable to me.

The people depicted on US currency were human beings, with flaws just like you and me. But they worked hard to make this the great country it once was, and could be again.

She's just having it taken down for brownie points, not because she's suddenly "offended" by it. It'd still be flying if the shooting didn't happen...

a reply to: Seamrog

Republican or democrat, the people making the decisions during that time were conservatives. I hear this argument all the time, and its disingenuous. Yes licoln was republican as were most blacks back then, but the people who wanted to preserve the southern way were conservatives. Different title, same priciples, nice try though

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here is my problem with the Heritage vs. Hate argument...AKA the Flag represents South Carolina's heritage..

The Confederate Flag on the State capitol grounds?

Ya know when it was put there? It hasn't been flying for 150 years..

The Confederate flag was hoisted above the State House in 1961 by a bunch of old white southerners opposed to segregation and looking to give the middle finger to the Federal Government and let the African Americans in South Carolina know how their state government felt about it.

And whilst after this tragedy...both the State Flag and the American flag at the State House fly at half-mast...The Confederate flag does not, because of a state law that was passed forbidding it to ever be flown at half-mast.

That flag was raised in the spirit of intolerance and needs to come down. As always in America, everyone has a right to assign their own value and meaning to a flag, and they can continue to do so on their own private property.

BTW - I was travelling through South Carolina the week before Charleston with my family. Road tripping.

We passed more than one billboard with the Confederate Flag and the text "Never Forget". We passed more than one car or pick-up truck on the highway with the Confederate flag either painted on it, in the window or a bumper sticker etc. usually full of young men trying to look angry and tough and yes, some of them had shaved heads and tattoos. Me and the wife commented how beautiful SC was, but how we could never raise our kids there. SC has a ton of great people, kind hearts and good humor...but they also have a dark streak of the other kind and it's taken root in the young kids, not something that is dying out with the older generation.

There is no shortage of free-expression and the Confederate flag in SC, but that flag at the state capitol was raised in ignorance and hate and in opposition to segregation at the state capitol and is a symbol of the same. It needs to come down.

originally posted by: doclec
a reply to: Seamrog

Republican or democrat, the people making the decisions during that time were conservatives. I hear this argument all the time, and its disingenuous. Yes licoln was republican as were most blacks back then, but the people who wanted to preserve the southern way were conservatives. Different title, same priciples, nice try though

Dixie Democrat..

The civil rights bill and the movement in general flipped the political map. Southern Democrats became republicans in opposition to civil rights. Lincoln was a Republican, but the Republican party back then was pro-emancipation and partnered with the abolishment movement. The map flipped in the 1960's.

a reply to: Indigo5

Actually the ALABAMA BATTLE FLAG Not the true CONFEDERATE FLAG cant be adjusted without a 2/3rds majority in both houses so even if they wanted to fly it half mast it would a took so long that it would had been weeks later. Also its padlocked into place as well.

Nikki haley just killed her re election chances in South carolina with this though. The Skinheads and NAzis will just use the american flag next as their new symbol after this ones gone. Same with the KKK. Eventually they will scream for the US flag to be removed too because of feel good polotics.

Atwater and Strom Thurmond...both from SC...this offers a historical glimpse of the politics at the time that led to the Confederate Flag being raised at the State House. Listen to the excerpt of Sen. Thurmond's speech.

"The South is the only part of the United States ever defeated and thoroughly humiliated in a war"

a reply to: Krazysh0t

its a flag, a design, a piece of cloth. ya it meant something at one point in time but really?
why get all worked up about it? its just a thing its not going to kill anyone or invade your country or home.
i have more important things to think about

originally posted by: doclec
a reply to: Seamrog

Republican or democrat, the people making the decisions during that time were conservatives. I hear this argument all the time, and its disingenuous. Yes licoln was republican as were most blacks back then, but the people who wanted to preserve the southern way were conservatives. Different title, same priciples, nice try though

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Indigo5

Actually the ALABAMA BATTLE FLAG Not the true CONFEDERATE FLAG cant be adjusted without a 2/3rds majority in both houses so even if they wanted to fly it half mast it would a took so long that it would had been weeks later. Also its padlocked into place as well..

No offense...but educating yourself before calling BS is good policy.

two flags atop the statehouse in Columbia, South Carolina, were lowered to half-staff on Thursday. They will stay there for nine days in honor of each victim.

But in a bewildering display, a Confederate flag on statehouse grounds is still flying high. It wasn't an oversight. It's because of state law.

www.nbcnews.com...

A ton of other sources are available. I heard a SC State rep discuss how a law forbids them from flying the Confederate flag at half-mast yesterday.

a reply to: Indigo5


I love revisionist history.


Which party perpetuates racial divide? Even encourages it?

Which party panders to minorities?

Which party damns minorities to government dependance?

Which party shackles children to the failure of public / government education?

Which party celebrates the murder of minority babies, and triumphantly proclaims it to be "health care?"

Which party gave birth to the welfare state, and which party cultured and grew it to the modern terror it is now?

What party was FDR? What party was Fritzy Hollings?



I'll give you a hint...it's not those hateful racist Republicans (that apparently were formerly Democrats until it became cool to covert to Republicans to further their racist agenda).

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Indigo5

Actually the ALABAMA BATTLE FLAG Not the true CONFEDERATE FLAG cant be adjusted without a 2/3rds majority in both houses so even if they wanted to fly it half mast it would a took so long that it would had been weeks later. Also its padlocked into place as well..

No offense...but educating yourself before calling BS is good policy.

two flags atop the statehouse in Columbia, South Carolina, were lowered to half-staff on Thursday. They will stay there for nine days in honor of each victim.

But in a bewildering display, a Confederate flag on statehouse grounds is still flying high. It wasn't an oversight. It's because of state law.

www.nbcnews.com...

A ton of other sources are available. I heard a SC State rep discuss how a law forbids them from flying the Confederate flag at half-mast yesterday.

I AM right. read the REASON WHY. The LAW in SC STATES you HAVE TO HAVE A TWO THIRDS MAJORITY VOTE OF BOTH HOUSES TO MOVE THE FLAG PERIOD. Also its PADLOCKED into place because Someone stole it one time.

Also THE FLAG FLYING AT THE WAR MEMORIAL IS NOT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG. Look it up. the coNfed flag has a field of WHITE with the Alabama Flag in the top left.

originally posted by: rnaa
a reply to: seasoul

For a moment take slavery out of the equation, for in fact only a small percentage of wealthy Northerners and Southerners actually promoted and/or profited from this unjust institution.

Bull Feces. Slavery was the SOLE driver of the Southern Economy - the cotton and tobacco industries ran by the sweat of slavery. And northern industries craved those commodities produced by southern slaves.

Your assertion that slavery didn't mean much to anyone is revolting and insulting the intelligence of anyone who calls themselves a member of the human race.

Every one of the States that seceded, every single one of them, cited as the reason of their secession the issue of slavery - look it up - the statements they produced to justify their traitorous rebellion are online - Google is your friend.

And they took this treasonous route in spite of decades long and absolute control of Congress by Southern delegations hell bent on protecting slavery to the point of essentially declaring the entire Bill of Rights null and void ( freedom of speech, of assembly, of religion - all were banned) and a captive Supreme Court didn't blink an eye.

The following essay represents a perspective that many people in the world today who are struggling against tyranny can respect about the Confederate Battle Flag and the Americans who died defending it.

I repeat. Bull Feces.

Very few people died defending that flag. It is the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The only people who did defending it were members of that Army. Period.

Displaying that flag at the South Carolina Capitol Building is explicit acknowledgment that the Army of Northern Virginia is in military occupation of the State of South Carolina. Why aren't the South Carolinian 'states rights' shouters up in arms about that? All you 'sov-cits' muttering inchoherently about a decoritive fringe on the US flag - why aren't you screaming about this very real symbol of Virginia's military agression against South Carolina, and indeed all of its Southern neighbors?

Name one other failed rebellion in the history of mankind that ever got to keep the symbols of their treason to rub in to the faces of the victors. Yes, Virginians died defending their battle flag. South Carolinians died defending theirs, Tennesseans died defending theirs. And they were traitors in open rebellion against their country - and they LOST.

Northerners died too. Scott Walker should note that Wisconsin's sons died putting down the rebellion that that ugly flag has come to represent. Michiganders. Men from New Jersey and New York. Vermont. Maine. Pennsylvania. Ohio. They died putting down a rebellion by traitors.

That is the heritage that 'some' people want to celebrate - a heritage of rebellion and treason, inhumanity and opposition to civilized well being. The heritage that you are defending.

You have no shame sir. The diseased ideology that divided the nation 150 years ago still divides the nation today thanks to wretched losers like you. It is time that you accept the fact that the war was lost by you 150 years ago because the winners will not abandon the field of battle to the losers 150 years after 'our' predecessors died to defeat that diseased ideology.

I reject your immoral "celebration" of Treason. The flag must come down.

You say "civilized well being".... are you joking right now? Your "civilized" nation nearly wiped out the Native Americans, they commited genocide quite simply. I spit on your flag, I spit on the Union, and I spit on your pathetic notion of moral high ground. The same Union officers who put down the south were the ones who went out west and killed off/drove out the last of the Indians from their lands.

I spit on your "Union", it represents the most sickly form of hypocrisy anyone's ever seen. What are you going to do about it?

a reply to: Drest

Ya know john wilkes booth should be a hero. Just imagine all the government over reach he stopped by knocking off lincoln.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Bill Clinton came from Arkansas and Gore came from Tennessee. The Dem strategy at the time was the Jimmy Carter Strategy...dems from the pseudo-south in hopes of carrying enough Southern votes by virtue of where they came from in order to win the white house. Obama was the exception coming from a northern state. Anyways, seeing a confederate flag..or more accurately here a Dixie Democrat symbol associated with their campaign is unsurprising given the strategy. It says nothing about how the Confederate flag is viewed in the south.

originally posted by: chuck258

originally posted by: alphastrike101
a reply to: Drest

Although the south had great tactical officers they were strategically beat. Thus they still got their asses beat. Why? Because ultimately all those dead was entirely for NOTHING. The entire southern struggle was totally futile.
I suppose it depends on your definition of "getting your ass kicked." One could say that Sherman's March to the Sea (let alone being able to do it virtually unopposed*) is proof enough that the Confederates, by late 1864-1865, were getting their asses kicked quite thoroughly. Other people might consider the Reconstruction period to be demonstrative of the level of ass-kicking delivered.

The whole campaign in the West was an almost unbroken string of Confederate disasters.

Just a recap
1 in 5 southern military men dead. Southern rebuilding taking nearly half a century post war.

While the north seen economic gains as well as little to no reconstruction being needed.

If nothing else to the victors go the spoils.. and bragging rights.

We won, you lost badly, get over it.

Maybe you missed the part where the Union took over 150,000 more dead thanthew Confederacy despite almost twice the military strength.

The view that Sherman's March is equivalent to showing that the Confederacy got its ass kicked follows this line of thought: Sherman marched mostly unopposed; Sherman was able to absolutely ruin whatver he wanted to; the Confederacy *could not* stop him, even in the few places it did try to fight.

Following that line of thought, and disregarding anything else, the notion that the South, by that time, had had its ass kicked is a sincerely believable notion.

If, when the Confederacy wins, it still loses an amount of men that significantly hurts it and fails to win a decisive strategic victory, the Confederacy can be shown to be losing. When you add in the economic devastation that it suffered in addition to the losses it took militarily, as above, the notion that it got its ass kicked becomes very believable.