Greece debt audit committee deems debt "illegal, illegitimate and odious"

a reply to: Drest

That's really funny...

I visit Greece often... usually during summer
Half of the Greeks I've met are really nice honest and hard working people,
Too much corruption in this country, but not all people are like that
There are many decent honest people that pay the damage that others made

As for the ''not paying taxes'' thing is a big lie, Anyone who doesn't end up in prison... simple as that

originally posted by: DupontDeux
I'll define it for you: Pay taxes like on the Cyamans, enjoy socialist benefits like in Scandinavia - work like a Spaniard on siesta.

They would wish to have even 1/100 socialist benefits like in Scandinavia!

I was unfortunate enough to end up in a public hospital there, and it was like a third world country,
Also the Doctors are also so corupt that even though their paycheck comes from the goverment (public sector) you have to bride them with extra money to treat you with decency! tragic really

Also the educational system of Scandinavia is the best in the world , In Greece it's the worst
As you also say, teachers (public sector) simply don't do their job, and people have to pay extra for afternoon private schooling if they want their kids to learn anything and make it to universities...

So yes most people in the public sector are being paid without actually working, and they are living parasitically to society but that's hardly 15% -20%
The others work hard pay huge taxes for education, healthcare, roads etc and they have none of those in reality.

It's always easy to talk from the outside media propaganda,
but I've seen first hand reality, and fortunately I can actually separate facts from bullsh!t.

Haim Rakovsky interrogation of the NKVD : I even say that Hitler was a lucky man. He did not have gold, so he had no evil attempts to create a gold reserve. And because of the security of paper money in his possession was only the great scientific and operational capacity of its people, that is the head and hands, he picked up and put them in the provision of its paper money. It was so ... counterrevolutionary because he magically overnight again eliminate unemployment of seven million people.
 K. - Through upgrading.
 R. - What's your re really gives? Hitler achieved it is in peacetime, despite the opposition of all the bourgeois economists who surrounded him, and he used his own system, and it is primarily for non-military production.
 Can you imagine what would happen if the system adopted to more and other countries? For example, Britain? Then you will realize that it is the counter-revolution.
 And the danger is not yet over.
 Thank God, Hitler used his system not from the previous theory, empirically, and so he did not have time to formulate it scientifically as a formula to follow. This means that he is not thinking about its economic system, does not apply to her deduction, induction, he has not formulated a complete economic theory of its economic system to the other. However, there is always the risk that someone can do it for him. And this is very serious. Because such a theory may appear at any time. We have therefore deliberately not criticize the economic system of Hitler, it has not turned so that the theoretical discussion will encourage the formulation and systematization of the effectiveness of economic doctrines

a reply to: mangust69

Hitler spent money that didn't exist like crazy. Government demand drove employment. It was not sustainable; he had to siphon much of the labor force into the military. As he invaded his neighbors, he ransacked their treasuries. Brilliant economist you say?

a reply to: liteonit6969

I believe Greece should pay their debt, after all this debt came from their own choices, own political system errors and ther EU nations have sacrificed a lot so far in order to help them out paying it.

The main source of the debt lies in failed political/social system. Avoiding taxes is a culture in Greece, while the social system is enormous. The retirement age is lower than in other nations, while their pension is one of the highest in Europe and the population is ageing. Now with the high youth unemployment there is even less money coming in Considering in the other parts of social security system (like health care system), it was simply unsustainable. Everybody uses the benefits provided by the system, yet there are not enough people to pay the taxes, which leads to debt.

Additionally the public sector was too large providing several assistants to every politicians and generally having too many public adiministrative emplyees, who were offered very generous pension packages.

As everybody were happy using the government-services for free, the corruption at higher ranks was not noticed, as the government contracts provided for private companies were extremely overpriced, as the rich avoided tax-paying as well.

The whole system was a failure, that is why the debt happened. In order to run strong social system, everybody has to put in and taxes need to be enforced and people need to be more politically aware/active, as it is in Nordic nations, which have some of the lowest government debts among OECD nations, despite the strong safety nets.

The back and forth in this thread boils down to a confidence vs no confidence in the monetary system. If you think it makes sense, then you can look internally to that system and call out what is wrong with Greece's use of that system. Your points seem valid if you don't question the system as a whole.

If you bother to look at this systemically, you can see the supposed wrong of the people of Greece is perhaps an adjustment/adaptation to a malevolent system as a whole. Judgement can be quite different in this light.

Some people just can't bare to look outside the current system in place, and are blinded by their own beliefs within it. There's no reasoning with them.