Is it time we worked together yet on our "gun problem"?

a reply to: Asktheanimals

yes, they're supposed to provide us regular citizens 'protection' from violent-thug-criminals-haters but nowdays its the criminals or criminally-minded thugs that actually use them to 'off' people for their own perverted reasons

The reason that there can't be rational discussion any more:

For the last 80 years new laws have rolled out new restrictions on what people can and can't own, who can do it, and how they can do it, etc. Through all of these laws coming out, 2 things remain constant:

- each and every law promises a safer America
- each and every new law is predicated on the ever increasing danger in America because of guns.

It just doesn't make sense. On the one hand we give up rights to make the world safer, but then they turn around and tell us how unsafe everything is and how we need to give up more rights. Its like a money pit of gun rights.

the only ways to recocile this obvious disconnect:

- we are being lied to
- their approach is such a huge failure that each attempt to make things better actually makes them worse

I leave it to you to figure out which is which. But in the meantime want to point out: it doesn't matter of 90% of Americans want something. Our president seems to want to wield the Populist weapon of choice: Mob Rule. THAT is unAmerican.

a reply to: KawRider9

KawRider9 quote:

I disagree with his 90% claim, but I do agree that no reform or legislation will/can guarantee the elimination of violence. That's about as "common sense" as we can get. He also said...


Barry Obamas quote:
“You don’t see murder on this kind of scale, with this kind of frequency, in any other advanced nation on Earth,” Obama continued. “Every country has violent, hateful, or mentally unstable people. What’s different is not every country is awash with easily accessible guns.


I agree with you KawRider9 on the 90% BS.... politicians love throwing percentages without proof..what Barry should be addressing is that America has (probably) 90% of our children growing up on big Pharma drugs on 'this kind of scale' and that - that is what is causing the instability of our youth/young people.

Yes.

You need to get armed and follow the law because guess what:

www.law.cornell.edu...

You are in the militia whether you like it or not. According to the Constitution you must receive regulation (Webster: training) from the federal government and paid for by the federal government.

Well ok then. Take your chances that crime happens to other guy, and enjoy your no-gun life. You'll PROBABLY be ok and never know the difference. For the price of a gun and some ammo, I don't have to be concerned about what I see happen on the news. I assume from your profile you're an Aussie, which is a completely different country from ours. They took all your guns away, so now the Aussies kill each other with crossbows and swords. But I don't live there, I live in America. Things here are not as they are there, I assure you! I love it when foreigners think they know how life is here, and then tell us what to do, it's so comical!
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

a reply to: Parthin96

This year guns will kill more people than cars in your country but hey keep your guns and your right it is different there but I was in America in December and I can tell you a lot of people, a lot more than you think are getting tired of all the killing.I wont argue gun control or anything like that on an American website though Im not that stupid

originally posted by: Ultralight
a reply to: KawRider9

You may want to live in a country where your government takes your firearms and stomps all over the 2nd amendment, but I don't. And I have never owned or used a firearm. But I want to keep my right to own one.

More they take, the less you have. So give yours away freely. As for MY rights. I am keeping them, thank you.

Couldn't have said it better myself~!

This amd the main reason is to protevt us from tyranny of the Government~!

a reply to: khnum

You are so right about guns I mean just yesterday my wife and I were having lunch and 6 people including myself and my wife all were carrying our guns on our hips and take a guess how many people were shot?? none but guess what we seen a 2 car accident.

a reply to: thesaneone

Im not trying to be smart your country has 4.43 per cent of the worlds population and 42 per cent of all the worlds guns in civilian hands even Jesus Christ could not solve the gun violence in your country as I said in an earlier post if you find 29.7 per million killed by guns in your country unacceptable move to a country like Australia where its 1.4 per million because nothing is ever going to change.

a reply to: Komodo

Name one revolution in modern times where regime change was done by the civilian population,the civilians take to the streets without guns then the military or security forces side with the civilians in every case that is successful,what on earth are you going to do against a helicopter gunship or warthog with your ar15, if you think any revolution in America can occur without the military choosing a side you are deluded.

Most advanced countries do not have the 3rd world localities located in every one of their major cities. These mass killings are often committed by young disturbed individuals who are on psychoactive drugs. Psychiatrist and family are to blame for not watching out for these peoples mental state.

And whoever said automatic ownership, it is very hard to get and expensive to own an automatic. Honestly an automatic offers little advantage except suppressive fire anyways.
If you want to find a real reason for violence just compare fatherless children to fathered children . the difference in life outcomes is quite astounding.

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: ausername

Using that logic American and United airlines should be held responsible for 9/11.

How many laws do you need before you realize some people just want to kill some people?

Did you see the wink at the end of that post?

I was in a sarcastic way, attempting to predict the future. At least in how they could approach New gun laws, etc.

It's not a gun problem, it's a crime problem and a mental health problem.

There are 310,000,000 privately-owned firearms in the U.S. and a very tiny fraction of a percentage of those firearms are involved in crimes. I'd say our "problem" is quite under control.

a reply to: Answer

Why IS IT the "left" who call the "right" violent ,haven't figured out WHY they still exist?

a reply to: Answer

I think there is more than just the crime and mental health issues in many cases.

I happen to believe, and I have good reason to, that anyone that meets specific criteria can be programmed to kill. ANYONE!

Sure, there are people that Inexplicably snap, and kill. There are people that would kill indiscriminately just because they are evil, and/or completely insane...

Not all of these cases are that easily explained...

Psychological conditioning, and programming are an untraceable factor, more often than I think some would assume.

Impossible to prove by design.

What is more frightening than the easily available weapons for mass murders, is how people can be targeted, and manipulated over time this way...

imo

I have written at great length on this subject. And it is time for people to work together.

The problem is that many people are scared into thinking the only way to solve the problem is to eliminate guns. OK. Lets say that is correct. How do you plan to do it? We have so many laws regarding owning and using firearms I don't think anyone even has an accurate count anymore. Every single time a crime is committed using a firearm numerous felonies and misdemeanors are actually committed. For ease of discussion lets say ten laws are broken when someone uses a gun to commit a crime. Ten different laws making that act illegal, and yet it still happens. So the popular solution is to pass another law. "Its only illegal ten different ways - we cant do anything. Now if it was illegal eleven different ways, well then we could solve the problem."

The thing is, that is what the anti-gun lobby said when it was illegal five different ways. And six. And seven. And so on. Einstein said the definition of insanity is repeating the same act expecting different results. Insanity is not going to solve this problem.

You can pass a hundred laws today making it illegal to own, use, carry, discharge, or even talk about, any kind of gun you want and tomorrow there will be just as many illegal weapons on the streets as there are today. Why? Because criminals break the law. That is why we call them criminals. By definition, the only people who will obey those laws are - the law abiding citizens. Those are not the ones on the streets committing armed robberies, drive-bys, or shooting up the neighborhood because someone wore the wrong color baseball cap. Those are the criminals.

So, if you genuinely want to solve this problem, the question becomes, "How do we take guns away from criminals without taking away law abiding citizens right and ability to protect themselves?" In my experience I have found that the more accurately you can ask a question, the more likely it is to answer itself. So lets be more specific. "How do we take guns away from repeat offenders who use weapons to target citizens and businesses for personal gain or to cause harm?"

Repeat offenders. We know who they are. It is already illegal for them to own firearms so there is no need for additional legislation. So, the answer is not in more laws.

Now the problem becomes how to enforce the laws we already have and how to make criminals fear that enforcement. And the answer is starting to reveal itself. Every conviction involving firearms should carry a mandatory lifetime probation that consists of present probation conditions with the addition of spot checks for compliance to firearms legislation. In other words - none. Failure to comply is immediate incarceration. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Existing probation terms and conditions would still exist, only with the inclusion of spot checks for the rest of your life to ensure you are free of firearms. And you only get one chance. You blew the others when you committed the first crime.

Some argue that this plan would be costly to implement. Yes and no. Initially it might be costly but in the long run it will pay for itself when the real threats to society are locked up as they should be. The law is designed to eliminate the need for itself if it works properly. At some point even the most stupid offenders will realize that it means life in prison for just having a firearm. Not another slap on the wrist or three months with good behavior. Life. Period.

originally posted by: Parthin96
Well ok then. Take your chances that crime happens to other guy, and enjoy your no-gun life. You'll PROBABLY be ok and never know the difference. For the price of a gun and some ammo, I don't have to be concerned about what I see happen on the news. I assume from your profile you're an Aussie, which is a completely different country from ours. They took all your guns away, so now the Aussies kill each other with crossbows and swords. But I don't live there, I live in America. Things here are not as they are there, I assure you! I love it when foreigners think they know how life is here, and then tell us what to do, it's so comical!
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Well, life is about taking chances isn't it? I could also choke to death on a peanut or fall and crack my head open in the shower. Mate, I could drive to the shops one night to get milk and be taken out by a drunk driver, I mean people are always going to drive drunk, right? So going by some peoples logic here, we should not even bother having drink driving laws at all, because it infringes on the rights of people who can handle there liquor.

The anti-gun regulation people are always claiming the Australian government took all our firearms, but this is simply not true, we have a huge hunting culture here. All they did was enact nation wide laws on ensuring only responsible people can own firearms.

-All gun owners must apply to there state police to obtain a license, which needs to be renewed every few years
-All firearms must be individually registered to the owner
-All firearms must be securely stored in a safe when not in use
-Semi-automatic long barreled firearms and magazines that exceed a 10 bullet capacity are outright banned
-Being in possession of an illegal firearm or giving or selling a firearm to a person who is unlicensed is considered an extremely serious offence.

Enacting these simple measures has been proven to be very effective in 'preventing' (though obviously not eliminating) gun crime in general, well still allowing responsible & stable individuals to posses firearms . It has also effectively eliminated mass shootings in our society.

The thing is, its completely ineffective to enact laws on a local or state level. To be effective these regulations need to be enacted across the board on a federal level, they also need to be strictly enforced.

btw, to anyone that says I'm just an Aussie and that US politics is none of my concern. Well to bad, these mass shootings are flashed all over my tv as much as yours. If I have to constantly hear about these devastating events, then I'm obviously going to have strong opinions on it and have a right to speak my mind about it. Like it or not, American culture has a huge influence all over the world (particularly developed nations), so all eyes are on you guys. All our favourite movies, tv shows, music, clothes brands and even junk food are usually American.

So don't be so defensive when we stick our noses into your domestic politics. Its the price you pay for being the leaders of the 'free world', as well as (arguably) the most entertaining country on earth as well.

a reply to: Skid Mark

Thanks. Makes my blood boil. Gawd, here I go again...

They want to give others rights away. If you don't want firearms for yourself, FINE, this is America, and no one forces gun ownership on you. But THIS IS America, and you will ONLY take my 2nd Amendment right to bear arms when I draw my LAST breath!

So, OP, when the real disclosure happens, and I ain't talking E.T., and you are standing alone against your assailants, plural, you gonna wound them with statistics...?

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

I know it's hard for other countries to comprehend that America is much much different in almost every way. What works for other countries cannot work for America.

We are not a homogenous society. Did you know that we have people from every country in the world living here, except one I think.

The UK has about 55 million people.
Canada has about 34 million.
Australia has about 22 million.
American has about 350 million.

We have cultures and sub-cultures of all kinds.

We have huge problems with illegal immigration that includes criminals of all kinds pouring into our country from the southern border. We have a president that turns a blind eye to it and actually encourages it by his weak policies.

Four in particular cities are nothing but cesspools of gang violence, drug culture, and crime. If they didn't exist, America would be near the bottom in gun violence.

And although billions of tax dollars have gone into programs in these cesspools, nothing works. Why? Well, we can't really get real about it without being accused of all kinds of things. So, we just keep saying all the politically correct things and putting $$$ into the pockets of the politicians that run these towns.

And yet.....more and more and more people want to come here, bring their entire families, and strive for the "American Dream"! Go figure.

a reply to: KawRider9

Apologies to the OP for climbing up on my high horse. I sorry.
If it's any consolation the horse bucked me into next week...varmit...ouch!