Russia says will retaliate if U.S. weapons stationed on its borders

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Hi....thats alot of points to reply too.
I may make them in few seperate posts as I have to go out.
here goes:

"IWhat world are you living in...Russia has done this to Ukraine and it has been proven right along with active Russian troops being caught in Ukraine...so how is Russia not responsible?

So what do you not get? "

Firstly...there is no need to insult me.I have shown courtesey to your posts and no matter how strongly you feel there is no need for snide remarks.

perhaps you can tell me what exactly it is that you think Russia has done to the Ukraine to cause this situation?.....As far as I'm aware the following article which I will link to has caused the situation in the Ukraine:

www.bbc.co.uk...

Yes I agree Russian Troops have been caught in the Ukraine(Again I never said anywhere that they haven't)
doesn't mean it's an invasion though does it?
As far as I'm aware an invasion means(when talking about military context: a LARGE Military Force moving into another countrys territory to occupy it(eg.d-day etc)

definition of invasion:invasion
ɪnˈveɪʒ(ə)n/
noun
noun: invasion; plural noun: invasions

an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force.
"Napoleon's disastrous invasion of Russia in 1812"
synonyms: occupation, conquering, capture, seizure, annexation, annexing, takeover, appropriation, expropriation, arrogation; More
overrunning, overwhelming, storming;
attack, incursion, offensive, assailing, assault, onslaught;
foray, sortie, raid
"the invasion of the islands took place in April"
antonyms: withdrawal
an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
"there was a brief pitch invasion when Sunderland scored"
synonyms: influx, inundation, inrush, rush, flood, torrent, deluge, stream, avalanche
"every year the valley suffers an invasion of cars"
an unwelcome intrusion into another's domain.
"random drug testing of employees is an unwarranted invasion of privacy"
synonyms: violation, infringement, interruption, disturbance, disruption, breach, infraction; More



what I don't get when you say they don't want to become the next Ukraine is that this situation could have happened in any country....it wasn't Russia who caused the situation.(it's all in the BBC article)

"I'm sorry but when you have active troops in a sovereign country it is an occupation...and Russia does have active military troops on Ukrainian territory, so exactly how is it they aren't occupying Ukraine? "

I'm sorry but you are wrong ...there are US troops stationed in Germany etc...it doesn't mean the US occupy Germany.
The US did however occupy Iraq for example.
As far as I'm aware Russia isn't occupying Ukraine.
wiki :"Military occupation is effective provisional control of a certain ruling power over a territory which is not under the formal sovereignty of that entity, without the volition of the actual sovereign"
Russia does not have provinsional control over Ukraine(the seperatists have some control but are not occupying it as they have not got full control)...

"And Russia is the reason the protests started"
Russia is not the Reason the protests started...again the article I linked to snippet:" Days of deadly clashes between anti-government protesters and police have culminated in parliament voting to oust President Viktor Yanukovych."


"
Wrong, because since 91 when Ukraine became independent so did Crimea as it is and will be part of Ukraine...just because Russia thinks it's theirs it isn't.

The only reason Putin wanted Crimea was because he didn't want to pay for the lease he agreed on with Yanukovych. Had there not been a base there he wouldn't care about Crimea. "

"when I said the comment you refer too:Crimea has belonged to Russia in the past before it belonged to Ukraine"
en.wikipedia.org...

While We don't recognize it as apart of Russia yet Russia don't recognize it as a part of Ukraine:disputed

"he only reason Putin wanted Crimea was because he didn't want to pay for the lease he agreed on with Yanukovych. Had there not been a base there he wouldn't care about Crimea. "

So you are psychic and know why Vlad wants Crimea....Imo this is the reason for Russias annexation of Crimea:

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com...


"Well then who were these troops... "
They are Russian Troops inside Crimean Government buildings not Ukranian Government buildings.

"And how do you explain the fact that the same Russian soldiers that were seen in Crimea were also seen in the Eastern Ukraine theater as the problems moved East. Also it should be known that the separatists were being run by Russian GRU operative...you know one Igor (Girkin) Strelkov."

Again Im not disputing the fact that some Russian Troops have been in Ukraine(some is not an invasion)

"No they are getting all their heavy weapons and ammo from Russia...as nobody else is helping them."

So they have no outside funding other than Russia....I'm sure they are also getting weapons from fellow Ukrainians and robbing Ukraniain Military Weapons"

"You really should look up the definition of invasion and tell me Russia never invaded Ukraine, because you would see that they in fact invaded. "

I did look up the definition and a few Russian troops allegedly operating in Ukranian territory hardly mounts to an invasion.

"in·va·sion (ĭn-vā′zhən)
n.
1. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer.
2. The entry into bodily tissue and subsequent proliferation of an injurious entity, such as a pathogen or tumor.
3. An intrusion or encroachment: Your reading her diary was an invasion of her privacy."

Again 1.According to Russia there are no troops stationed in Ukraine....and a handful of Alleged Russian troops helping Ukranian Paramilitary is hardly what I would call trying to conquer Ukraine.

2 and 3 don't apply as they are not in Military context.

"And just so you know the separatists have even admitted to the use of Russian troops and heavy weapons to help them... "
Again not what I'm disputing

"So now feel free to refute what those who are on the ground fighting are saying...because they just showed you are wrong.
Again not what I'm disputing.
Ukraine has not been invaded by Russia.
There are also two sides to every story aren't there?

a reply to: Shamrock6

Every Government has done this including the US.

en.wikipedia.org...

We can hardly compare Russia to say China or Iran Or NK though can we?
There are also many instances in the US Government of clamping down on US citizens and political activists aswell are there not?

a reply to: the2ofusr1

This is actually funny if you think for a moment .

If you think war, death and destruction is funny, you have a sick sense of humor.

We have been told numerous times that Russia is being aggressive and have even invaded the Ukraine .

Correct. Russia had its troops occupy Crimea, which the entire world recognizes as Ukrainian territory.

So the US/NATO to the rescue .

Sadly, no. Other than providing some training for the Ukrainian army which the Russians had deliberately kept underdeveloped, the United States and NATO have done nothing to help Ukraine. The economic sanctions are hurting the Russian people, but they are not really helping Ukraine.

The US is going to store it's weapons in a neighboring country as a response to this Russian aggression ?? Is that really a response ?

No. Please read the article; the United States was already storing heavy weaponry in the area; they have simply increased the amount in response to the fears of the host nations.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Firstly I was replying to an other poster but I'll answer anyway:

"Ah yes comparing the situation in Ukraine to the middle east...why does that sound so familiar? "
The reason it sounds familiar is because it is familiar isn't it?
As would be comparing the cuba missile crisis to US putting an ABM shield in Russia s backyard.

"Where does it state that battalions of troops need to be used for an invasion to happen? "

Again if you read the definition of invasion.....a handful of troops is not an invasion is it?
If 12 terrorists came to America to conquer it...it would hardly be called an invasion.

"Ukraine Acting President Says Russia Has Invaded Ukraine, As 2000 Russian Troops, Military Jets Arrive"

Yes and Ukranian politicians along with NATO generals have also said on a number of times in the past that Russia has invaded.....I'm still waiting on it happening though.

"Are you kidding?

This all started because Putin is bitching about Ukraine wanting to join the EU and NATO...where have you been for the last year or so?"

No I'm not kidding.
No this is not how it started,like I said this started as people protested their Government and coup of president amongst other things like the political corruption in the country aswell as the Economy.
And not all Ukranians want to join NATO or the EU which is also part of the cause for the split in the country.
"where have you been for the last year or so?"
grow up....and please stop with the childish insults.

a reply to: defcon25

How is that remotely germane, comrade? You said "...in fact I don't think Russians are too frightened to speak out against their Government either(I don't think they send them to Siberia anymore)." What does the U.S. have to do with that?

You claimed that Russians aren't afraid to speak out because nobody gets sent to Siberia anymore. Which I suppose is technically true. They just get arrested, tried, jailed, killed, etc.

I never claimed that ANY country hasn't, or had, done anything. YOU claimed Russia is a beacon of free speech. "I know you are but what am I" is a monumentally weak response.

a reply to: DJW001

Seems that NATO has become a protection racket where the convince countries to be afraid , be very afraid and so the US tax payers will pick up the tab to supply NATO's protection racket while greasing the wheels of the military industrial racket . Welcome to cold war 2.0 and another round of the Rothschild money racket .

All while China ,Russia and friends build a alternative to it .Most new the end to the western system was going to fail but it seems that instead of being a gigantic crash it will be a death of a 1000 cuts and slow bleed out . I guess we can thank China for that .

a reply to: tsurfer2000h


"So how threatening is a tank with nobody to run it...because all that is being sent there, equipment...not troops. "
I'm sure their are ex-Ukranian military persons in this region of the Ukraine.

"It is okay to let Russia run rough shot over it's sovereign neighbors and when asked for help by those neighbors we should just say oh well we don't want to upset Putin, so enjoy the invasion."
Again Russia hasn't invaded the Ukraine....Ukraine is not a NATO ally.
I don't think NATO are really concerned with upsetting Putin.
Russia isn't exactly running rough shot or invading any NATO countries.

"Oh you mean like Cuba?"
I would think thats what he means.

SO American money is being used to destabilize Ukraine...care to provide anything that backs that claim?

heres just one of many : www.politifact.com...

"Seems you have no problem with Russia destabilizing Ukraine...why? "
I don't know about him but no I don't have a problem because the US are also destablizing the Ukraine aswell but unlike Russia the US have destabilized nearly the whole middle east.

"And so you know those countries have asked for those missiles the US isn't making them take them, but feel free to provide the evidence the US is pushing the missile shield without those countries requesting them? "

Some European countries are opposed to this...one of the largest with most European influence is Germany.

"Same goes for NATO...those countries want to know they don't have to worry about being the next Ukraine."
I don't think they are worried about becoming the next Ukraine I believe they fear Russian Invasion.

a reply to: defcon25

I don't think they are worried about becoming the next Ukraine I believe they fear Russian Invasion.

Well then your finally seeing the reason they want US military there to keep this from happening.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Seems that NATO has become a protection racket where the convince countries to be afraid

Except that countries go to NATO...NATO doesn't come to them.

a reply to: Shamrock6
Hi,I'll just reply to some of your comments.
"how is that remotely germane, comrade? You said "...in fact I don't think Russians are too frightened to speak out against their Government either(I don't think they send them to Siberia anymore)." What does the U.S. have to do with that? "
Nothing....he was implying that the Crimean people are silenced by the big bad Russians and I was disputing this as Russia is as Democratic as the US or any other Democracy.

"You claimed that Russians aren't afraid to speak out because nobody gets sent to Siberia anymore. Which I suppose is technically true. They just get arrested, tried, jailed, killed, etc. "
Sounds like North Korea according to you....As far as I'm aware this can happen in the US too.

"I never claimed that ANY country hasn't, or had, done anything. YOU claimed Russia is a beacon of free speech. "I know you are but what am I" is a monumentally weak response. "

Neither did I.
And can you show me where I claimed Russia is the bastion of free speech?
They have about as much free speech as any other Democracy maybe even more so than the US now.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Seems that NATO has become a protection racket where the convince countries to be afraid , be very afraid and so the US tax payers will pick up the tab to supply NATO's protection racket while greasing the wheels of the military industrial racket . Welcome to cold war 2.0 and another round of the Rothschild money racket .

You have no idea how NATO actually works, do you? NATO members have their own militaries and usually purchase weapons manufactured in their own countries. It is a mutual self defense treaty. As for the military industrial complex's impact on the economy, the facts speak for themselves. Although it's true that the United States arms exports are larger overall, Russia comes in second. Arms exports account for only 0.0464% of America's GDP, whereas arms exports account for 0.44% of Russia's... fully ten times more.

Source

No wonder Russia keeps trying to scare other countries into thinking the United States is out to get them.

a reply to: defcon25

I just did show you. I quoted you directly. Russians aren't afraid to speak out.

Doesn't seem to be the case according to like...Russians that speak out.

Still sticking with the "I am rubber" defense. Nice.

a reply to: DJW001

Some NATO members pay the 2% GDP premium while others pay less and I think if I am not mistaken that some don't pay . In those cases I think the US tax payers pick up the tab . There seems to be a general confusion as to the workings of NATO not just me but others as well . Take for instance there duty to set up a no fly zone over Libya . I haven't heard of how many planes that were shot down and it would really be hard to just how many bombs were dropped but it did wreak the country's infrastructure . Schools , Hospitals ,water ,power , that kind of stuff along with homes . So yea I have no clue how NATO works .

originally posted by: Kromlech
Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0?

Well if like during the Cold War when the Russian's responded to the Jupiter nuclear missiles in Italy and Turkey by placing nuclear missiles in Cuba, IF they decide to respond in kind to American military hardware being positioned near(or closer then has been so far) to their borders, then yes, it will be a Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0 of sorts.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Take for instance there duty to set up a no fly zone over Libya .

You do know that the UN security council were the ones who established the no fly zone not NATO.

www.un.org...

All they did was enforce it...there is a difference.

So yea I have no clue how NATO works .

Well at least you admit it.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: defcon25

I just did show you. I quoted you directly. Russians aren't afraid to speak out.

Doesn't seem to be the case according to like...Russians that speak out.

Still sticking with the "I am rubber" defense. Nice.

It's the only way you can defend Putin's policies try to convince others that what the US does is worse making it ok foe Russia to act that way. Sadly there information is always distorted with propaganda and quotes from anti amarican websites. This is part of Russian propaganda take people unhappy with the US government and position Purin as some defender of the faith.

You see this in the fact russians dint realize they are not a democracy. And democratic principles were never in play in Russia. Yet they try to convince the world they are.

a reply to: Shamrock6

"Russians aren't afraid too speak out" is not the same as CLAIMING I STATED Russia is the bastion of free speech?
"Doesn't seem to be the case according to like...Russians that speak out."The same can be said of Americans who speak out and btw I haven't heard any Russian saying they will be killed if they say bad things about the Government.
"Still sticking with the "I am rubber" defense. Nice. "
I'm just replying to each comment you make individually....I thought thats how it was done here?

a reply to: dragonridr

The US is not a Democracy either friend and hasn't been one for many years now.
And it is getting worse each day.
Btw there is also lots of US propoganda and British propoganda out there aswell.

originally posted by: defcon25
a reply to: dragonridr

The US is not a Democracy either friend and hasn't been one for many years now.
And it is getting worse each day.
Btw there is also lots of US propoganda and British propoganda out there aswell.

More anti amarican BS truth is elections are held ,problem becomes do to right and left battling in the US independents sway the elections meaning there is alot of unhappy people. Means presidents win my a narrow margin and the op is it ion does everyrhing they can to destroy their cridibilty. This means that there is a huge anti government sentiment countries like Russia can play towards much like your doing now. It's called propaganda and funny amaricans haven't figured out they are allowing countries to manipulate their hatred but they will.

Russian elections on the other hand are a formality. The winner is chosen before it even starts. Think about this the Soviet Union collapses in a revolution tanks rolling into red square. Yet the same people that were running the Soviet Union are still in charge . The KGB literally took over renamed themselves and now run the government. Putin became rich with money he literally took from the old Soviet Union. He then put his friends in charge stile businesses to five it to his friends. All who owe him for their massive wealth. The last thing Putin wants is a real revolution where people get a real choice. This was the true threat of Ukraine for him. Ukraine got tired of corruption and Russian business as usual and started looking into a new direction. This is why Russia wants their sphere of influence it's a Buffer area so Russian don't learn what democracy is. And Putin can't afford for Ukraine to become a working democracy many Russians have ties their and would want the same thing.

This is what it's truly about protection of Putin's administration. As long as people don't realize he's become fascist he van stay in power.

a reply to: defcon25

Deflect deflect deflect.

Make claims about how innocent and sweet Russia is and when the evidence starts flowing against that notion, start talking about the U.S. and everybody but Russia.

Weak.