Can a TV Show Go Too Far?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Entreri06

They have lol. Martin has daid repeatedly that the church of the seven is Catholicism and not real.

I meant in the show or the books. Nothing has been implicitly conveyed in either.

Lol that's because Jesus nor Christianity exist in westeros!! How could they be mentioned specifically without a deadpool style breaking of the fourth wall??


The church of the seven is an obvious reference to Christianity, with the high sparrow OBVIOUSLY being Jesus.


The high sparrow has turned over the tables and chased out the money lenders. It's the dominant religion of the country with zero proof any of it is actually real. It's an obvious reference to Christianity. Which GRRM is extremely critical of.




The funny part is Christianity is it's ability to be 100% rational about every other religion or crazy claim, but unable to look at Christianity with the same sceptisism. The fact that millions of Christians are hooked on a show that is largely a FU to their religion and not even notice is hilarious.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
It was burn her at the stake or let his entire army(and Shireen) die from exposure and lack of supplies.

A king has to make hard choices. He made the right one.

Wow there are some messed up people on ATS...

Not really it's easy to make that call when it's someone else's kid. If it were their child they would, to quote him butchers Dresden files, " let the world burn while me and the kid roast marshmallows!"



That and I doubt a kidless person would have the same emotional reaction as a parent. I'm a father of a 12 year old daughter, so it hit me to the core!!!


Tho if it truely was her or 7000 people ANd her. Logically it's an easy choice.

a reply to: okrian

Two things

Firstly I did say that i do believe we are in a golden age of TV and there have been some amazing shows I was just ranting about some of the decisions that the networks and production companies are making in trying to cater to younger audiences.

For example I am immensely pissed of that shows like the vampire diary's pulls in millions of viewers but people get scared of shows like Banshee.

Second thing, I don't think i ever said i had any kind of problem with homosexuality on TV.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: okrian

Two things

Firstly I did say that i do believe we are in a golden age of TV and there have been some amazing shows I was just ranting about some of the decisions that the networks and production companies are making in trying to cater to younger audiences.

For example I am immensely pissed of that shows like the vampire diary's pulls in millions of viewers but people get scared of shows like Banshee.

Second thing, I don't think i ever said i had any kind of problem with homosexuality on TV.

There were other posts earlier about homosexuality on TV where we kinda went off topic. I think he was replying to those in his post. Not to you specifically.



I understand making a lot of stuff kid friendly. It's just a larger market, espeacially if a toy line is on the table. However where it blows my mind (and I think probubally drops profitability) is where they take an adult source material and then make it PG 13. Like if they had chosen to do a PG13 deadpool.

In those cases i doubt it ever works out. Your core audience is adults who won't like it if it strays completely from the source materials tone.

a reply to: Entreri06

While Martin loosely based he fictional religions on real ones they have only limited connections and I cannot find anything in Martin's words comparing the High Sparrow to Jesus. They are, to me, not even remotely related in both the book and television versions.

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: The religions are made up religions, in that sense, imaginative religions. I based them on real world religions just tweaking it or expanding it a little. The faith of the Seven is of course based on medieval Catholic church and their central doctrine that there is one god who has seven aspects is partly based on the Catholic belief that there is one God but he has three aspects: Father, Son, Holy Ghost. With the Seven, instead, you have The Father, The Mother, The Maiden, The Crone, The Smith, The Warrior, and a Strangers, who's the death figure. Source

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Entreri06

While Martin loosely based he fictional religions on real ones they have only limited connections and I cannot find anything in Martin's words comparing the High Sparrow to Jesus. They are, to me, not even remotely related in both the book and television versions.

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: The religions are made up religions, in that sense, imaginative religions. I based them on real world religions just tweaking it or expanding it a little. The faith of the Seven is of course based on medieval Catholic church and their central doctrine that there is one god who has seven aspects is partly based on the Catholic belief that there is one God but he has three aspects: Father, Son, Holy Ghost. With the Seven, instead, you have The Father, The Mother, The Maiden, The Crone, The Smith, The Warrior, and a Strangers, who's the death figure. Source

Like I said Christians are horrible at looking critically or logically at their religion. Your quote IMHO backs up what I posted, about the seven.

About the high sparrow, tho it's an easy comparison. He came into a corrupt gluttonous church and totally cleaned house. Threw off the yoke of wealth and began using all of the churches wealth to take care of the poor and infirm. In the books the high sparrow is even more "Christlike", and not in a bad way. He came from obscurity to unite a group of believers tired of the blatant corruption, exactly like Jesus. There was no war against gays for one. Nor has he imprisoned anyone whithout a real crime being commited. Cersi is imprisoned for murder and treason. Margery for treason, cheating on the king and possibly putting a bastard with no blood relation to the royal family is treason in any monachy.


In the books and movies the high sparrow is portrayed as a pretty great human being. I wasn't taking a shot at Jesus thru the comparison. The seven might not be real but the high sparrow IS the real McCoy!

originally posted by: Entreri06

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Entreri06

While Martin loosely based he fictional religions on real ones they have only limited connections and I cannot find anything in Martin's words comparing the High Sparrow to Jesus. They are, to me, not even remotely related in both the book and television versions.

GEORGE R.R. MARTIN: The religions are made up religions, in that sense, imaginative religions. I based them on real world religions just tweaking it or expanding it a little. The faith of the Seven is of course based on medieval Catholic church and their central doctrine that there is one god who has seven aspects is partly based on the Catholic belief that there is one God but he has three aspects: Father, Son, Holy Ghost. With the Seven, instead, you have The Father, The Mother, The Maiden, The Crone, The Smith, The Warrior, and a Strangers, who's the death figure. Source

/



Like I said Christians are horrible at looking critically or logically at their religion. Your quote IMHO backs up what I posted, about the seven.

About the high sparrow, tho it's an easy comparison. He came into a corrupt gluttonous church and totally cleaned house. Threw off the yoke of wealth and began using all of the churches wealth to take care of the poor and infirm. In the books the high sparrow is even more "Christlike", and not in a bad way. He came from obscurity to unite a group of believers tired of the blatant corruption, exactly like Jesus. There was no war against gays for one. Nor has he imprisoned anyone whithout a real crime being commited. Cersi is imprisoned for murder and treason. Margery for treason, cheating on the king and possibly putting a bastard with no blood relation to the royal family is treason in any monachy.


In the books and movies the high sparrow is portrayed as a pretty great human being. I wasn't taking a shot at Jesus thru the comparison. The seven might not be real but the high sparrow IS the real McCoy!

originally posted by: Entreri06

Like I said Christians are horrible at looking critically or logically at their religion. Your quote IMHO backs up what I posted, about the seven.

How so? I am not a Christian.

About the high sparrow, tho it's an easy comparison. He came into a corrupt gluttonous church and totally cleaned house. Threw off the yoke of wealth and began using all of the churches wealth to take care of the poor and infirm. In the books the high sparrow is even more "Christlike", and not in a bad way. He came from obscurity to unite a group of believers tired of the blatant corruption, exactly like Jesus. There was no war against gays for one. Nor has he imprisoned anyone whithout a real crime being commited. Cersi is imprisoned for murder and treason. Margery for treason, cheating on the king and possibly putting a bastard with no blood relation to the royal family is treason in any monachy.

I still do not see the comparison. Jesus, using Biblical accounts, was prophesized and was attended at his birth by nobles, not exactly an obscure person. Christ's mission was to absolve man from original sin and guarantee their entry into heaven through salvation. I see no parallel with the High Sparrow here either.

In the books and movies the high sparrow is portrayed as a pretty great human being. I wasn't taking a shot at Jesus thru the comparison. The seven might not be real but the high sparrow IS the real McCoy!

In the television series he is the leader of a group of homophobic, prohibitionist thugs. There is not nearly as much nuance to the character as there is in the books.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Everyone must die.

Valar morghulis.

Btw, for those interested. Shireen Baratheon was reading a book called The Dance of Dragons in the show. It's actually a real novella Martin wrote called The Princess and the Queen, or, The Blacks and the Greens.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Entreri06

Like I said Christians are horrible at looking critically or logically at their religion. Your quote IMHO backs up what I posted, about the seven.

How so? I am not a Christian.

About the high sparrow, tho it's an easy comparison. He came into a corrupt gluttonous church and totally cleaned house. Threw off the yoke of wealth and began using all of the churches wealth to take care of the poor and infirm. In the books the high sparrow is even more "Christlike", and not in a bad way. He came from obscurity to unite a group of believers tired of the blatant corruption, exactly like Jesus. There was no war against gays for one. Nor has he imprisoned anyone whithout a real crime being commited. Cersi is imprisoned for murder and treason. Margery for treason, cheating on the king and possibly putting a bastard with no blood relation to the royal family is treason in any monachy.

I still do not see the comparison. Jesus, using Biblical accounts, was prophesized and was attended at his birth by nobles, not exactly an obscure person. Christ's mission was to absolve man from original sin and guarantee their entry into heaven through salvation. I see no parallel with the High Sparrow here either.

In the books and movies the high sparrow is portrayed as a pretty great human being. I wasn't taking a shot at Jesus thru the comparison. The seven might not be real but the high sparrow IS the real McCoy!

In the television series he is the leader of a group of homophobic, prohibitionist thugs. There is not nearly as much nuance to the character as there is in the books.

I apologize, i remembered your user name from previous threads and for some extremely rare/random (all to often time I assumed something I shouldn't have :p) incident I thought you were in the creationist camp. I just jump on here for fun so god knows I don't take notes or nuthin.




Fair enough on the came from obscurity, tho that's how Jesus is "sold". Poor boy son of god who tore down the wall of superiority and prevlidge. The only difference I I see is the is the miracles. He's utter humble, utterly honest, utterly devout. Hell he's the leader of a religion that is modeled after Christianity!!! The books came out before the present pope or I would say maybe him.



I wouldn't, at least not the majority of Christians, but some would describe them as homophobic bullies. Literally, the tv shows addition of the anti gay agenda is obviously hollywoods opinion of Christianity!

a reply to: Gazrok

Even more over the line, the demon thing that emerges from the red witch's nether regions to do the deed to the target!

Forget the night, it's her nether regions that are dark and full of terrors!

Jon Snow may know nothing, but he knew enough to refuse that, lol.

Oh horrors, yes that was a bit over the top one might say
Very odd I will admit
(poor ser Devos, having to witness that first hand)


Yes, I have to give credit to John Snow for being able to turn her down
As Ser Devos once said, "she has a way of messing with a man's head"

Luckily for him, he used his correct "head" to have have enough common sense to know she's trouble
Could tell it made her irritated that her charm and sexual appeal didn't work on John Snow


What got me was when she turned around in the doorway and said what Ygritte used to say, "You know nothing John Snow"...it would have been really cool if she said it with her accent

originally posted by: FlyersFan
It's Game of Thrones. This kind of violence is expected.
If a person can't take it, then they shouldn't watch.
It's brutal. But it's supposed to be.

So true!!

I can take it and have not missed one episode yet. LOL

Besides, we have seen more blood & gore in some of these slasher/horror/action thrillers
The movie "Hostile" was more about gore and tortured pain, so G.O.T. ain't nothing

At least it has one hell of a story line

Except, after this last episode, I'm gonna have GOT withdrawal symptoms ....having to wait 7 months for the next season

What got me was when she turned around in the doorway and said what Ygritte used to say, "You know nothing John Snow"...it would have been really cool if she said it with her accent

Yeah, that was a nice touch.

SPOILER ALERT!!!

I'm kind of with another member in thinking that if the same thing that happens in the books, happens in the show, she'll be saving Jon the same way Barric Dondarian was saved (though next season, episode 1). Makes sense, as it was a red priest who did it for him. (and it will give the season a hell of a cliffhanger).

a reply to: Gazrok

***SPOLIER***












The only other thing that can happen to save him if he is not actually dead is if he wargs into Ghost. They did make a point of showing ghost a couple of episodes ago after not seeing him for some time.

Final scene:

Olly: 'For the watch1'

Jon: 'Et tu, Olly?' Eyes roll back into head. Cut to view from direwolf's perspective.

originally posted by: Entreri06
My opinion is no. Assuming the event fits and furthers the story, it's fiction get over it. A little girl was not actually burned at the stake. That said I have a daughter and it was deeply shocking. I have read all the books and didn't see it comming. So I say " Good Show" the the writers for pushing the envelope.

The tv show has passed Martin in plot points. It is writing its own stories now since Martin is taking forever to write the next book in the series.

a reply to: Gazrok

Or he dies, martin said we will all cry our eyes out. i put nothing past that wretched jolly fat man. *shakes fist

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Only on the minor characters and plot points. The major arcs will be the same according to Martin, Benioff and Weiss.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

Or he dies, martin said we will all cry our eyes out. i put nothing past that wretched jolly fat man. *shakes fist

I think it would be best if he did as to me anything else is a bit cliché.

Stark fans like getting kicked in the nuts so what would be better than killing of Jon Snow?

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

Or he dies, martin said we will all cry our eyes out. i put nothing past that wretched jolly fat man. *shakes fist

The quote by the show runners is that this will be 'more shocking than the Red Wedding'.

I gave my cousin, who works at HBO, a call to find out who gets it and she told me that the entire viewing audience will be butchered by the end of the season.