Freedom of Information New Release: Adverse reaction rates in the UK for all vaccines.

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

pharma sucks at lobbying then, given that legislation is getting strickter and strickter

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

A high incidence of serious reactions have been reported in the U.S ever since Gardasil was released there in 2006. Even the drug manufacturer’s own clinical trials reveal a 1 in 40 (2.5%) incidence of a serious adverse reaction*, yet Irish parents are still told by the HSE that Gardasil is ‘very safe’.

Families damaged by the HPV vaccine grouping up in Ireland.

The point of this thread is not to battle Pharma shills although I've done that a hundred times on a wide range of sites. The point is to drive home the point. If you want to make your own informed medical decisions you have to work to defeat the Pharma machines. I'm sure there are at least 4-5 paid operatives on this site based on a familiarity with their terms and talking points.
People using: (anti-vaxxers, Westfield + discredited) They also open with ad hominem attacks.

Some are just skeptics looking to hammer on the issues. To you that are amateur skeptics, I assert that you support informed choice for yourself. Don't be a hypocrite --support informed choice for all.

Is this a game?
Do we need to guess how many logical fallacies you've managed to fit into one paragraph?
I'm going for 8.

Reply to Pardon? and GetHyped

Sorry for delay.....no rest and all that.....

No fibbing. They support me.

Try finding out about Alzheimers and its many forms, some of which start in what would not be classed as old age by most. (Try 40's) Maybe then you won't roll out a poorly informed, misconceived stereotypical opinion of what AD is. It's not your fault, you are a product of your education and training.....much like G.P.'s, but ther's always hope......

The consultants specialities I work with on MDTs are dermatology, cardiothorasic, breast, head and neck, upper GIT, lower GIT (colorectal), urology, neurology and gynaecology.

I never said vaccines cause AD. Read my post. I posed a question that I admit has no answer other than 'we don't know'. Based on the old 'absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.'

Yes I do know how they purport vaccines work. I just ask for the clinical evidence to back it up. This is where things start to come unravelled.

Long term......a lifetime. Say 70 years.

To describe someone as being further down the food chain does not display lack of compassion, it merely denotes recognition of an individuals (or sub group of individuals) station in life in comparison to others.

Yes I do have patient contact. One of my job roles is actually to champion patient focus and advocate compassion to the individual and their carers, in opposition to target orientated box ticking and I am highly commended in this by clinical /non clinical staff at all levels as well as patients and their families.

originally posted by: HumberWarrior
Reply to Pardon? and GetHyped

Sorry for delay.....no rest and all that.....

No fibbing. They support me.

Try finding out about Alzheimers and its many forms, some of which start in what would not be classed as old age by most. (Try 40's) Maybe then you won't roll out a poorly informed, misconceived stereotypical opinion of what AD is. It's not your fault, you are a product of your education and training.....much like G.P.'s, but ther's always hope......

The consultants specialities I work with on MDTs are dermatology, cardiothorasic, breast, head and neck, upper GIT, lower GIT (colorectal), urology, neurology and gynaecology.

I never said vaccines cause AD. Read my post. I posed a question that I admit has no answer other than 'we don't know'. Based on the old 'absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence.'

Yes I do know how they purport vaccines work. I just ask for the clinical evidence to back it up. This is where things start to come unravelled.

Long term......a lifetime. Say 70 years.

To describe someone as being further down the food chain does not display lack of compassion, it merely denotes recognition of an individuals (or sub group of individuals) station in life in comparison to others.

Yes I do have patient contact. One of my job roles is actually to champion patient focus and advocate compassion to the individual and their carers, in opposition to target orientated box ticking and I am highly commended in this by clinical /non clinical staff at all levels as well as patients and their families.

I've worked as a physiologist all over the UK and Ireland (including Hull) for nearly 30 years and I have never come across one consultant or any doctor from any discipline who would support your stance as the clinical evidence is overwhelming in support of them. Overwhelming.
So I think you're making that up.
No, I KNOW you're making that up.
(It's cardiothoracic btw, not cardiothoraSic ).

I do know what Alzheimers is thank you (your patronisation was also noted).
I also know what it isn't.
And whilst you didn't say specifically that it was caused by vaccines, you hinted very strongly indeed.
Whilst the cause of Alzheimer's is still unknown (relatively anyway as there are familial genetic factors which are responsible in some cases and genetic risk factors which can predispose to getting it) suggesting a cause by quoting the "absence of evidence" trope is extremely naive and again, shows a lack of comprehension the medico-scientific method. (Although that's understandable given that I have to assume from your description of your role that you're not medically or scientifically trained).
What would be more pertinent is some evidence of causality.
Do you have that (remember, correlation does not equal causality, it's a basic premise of medicine and science)?
And your hankering for a long term study of around 70 years (to link vaccines to Alzheimer's no doubt) is patently flawed and would be impossible to undertake.
There would be several obstacles straight away, the main ones being;
Who would be a control group?
How would you factor out all of the variables (there will be hundreds)?
What would the end-points be?

Since you're a self-proclaimed expert on Alzheimer's you would no doubt know that it was first described in 1906 (that doesn't mean it wasn't around then, they just didn't have a specific name for it).
The vaccination schedule in 1906 was extremely limited so what was the cause then?
There are plenty of descriptions historically which are evident of people suffering from Alzheimer's prior to any vaccinations too.
How did they get it?

"Yes I do know how they purport vaccines work. I just ask for the clinical evidence to back it up."
Why "purport"?
What evidence would change your mind they they work?
You've still not answered that.
And you haven't provided clinical evidence to back up your other claims.

"To describe someone as being further down the food chain does not display lack of compassion, it merely denotes recognition of an individuals (or sub group of individuals) station in life in comparison to others".
To describe someone as being further down the food chain shows a distinct illusory superiority complex in the person who states it.
Illusory superiority complexes are inextricably linked to being compassionateless and also to the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I'm guessing you're guilty of both.

Someone asked why pro-vacc people hate anti-vacc people. I think its might be to do with trauma, because I would think the whole experience would be traumatic, I remember being relived I didnt have to get "shots" like the other kids, the majority of which returned to class crying. This kind of trauma would haunt someone subconsciously their whole life if they didnt address it. When anti-vacc people suggest that vaccines are ineffective, these people are telling the inner child of the pro-vaccers that they were harmed for no reason.

Just my thought.

originally posted by: ItVibrates
Someone asked why pro-vacc people hate anti-vacc people. I think its might be to do with trauma, because I would think the whole experience would be traumatic, I remember being relived I didnt have to get "shots" like the other kids, the majority of which returned to class crying. This kind of trauma would haunt someone subconsciously their whole life if they didnt address it. When anti-vacc people suggest that vaccines are ineffective, these people are telling the inner child of the pro-vaccers that they were harmed for no reason.

Just my thought.

This site continually amazes me,
That's up there with the most ludicrous of posts surely?

a reply to: Pardon?
Maybe you should get a different job then.

originally posted by: ItVibrates
a reply to: Pardon?
Maybe you should get a different job then.

I have thought about getting into the anti-vax business as it's great (and easy) money with no responsibilities and no recourse.
However, I have a conscience.

a reply to: SecretFace

My friends daughter had one of the childhood multi shots, and hasn't been out of a wheelchair. since, she's 21 now.I suppose it could be a coincidence, but I doubt it.