*** ALL MEMBERS *** Ending Rudeness, Hate, Bigotry: Getting Back to Basics

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: crazyewok

Your avatar is offensive to all Americans who fought against you in The Great Revolutionary War Against Freedom From The Tyrant King George III.

*sob*

As a trans-biased-lupine, I feel offended.

But am still fluffy.

Well American flags and mentions of the constitution are offensive to all the poor souls who died fighting for the King against the horrid American terrorists and traitors

*runs off crying*

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

You're not getting my point.

Making a statement like "I hate Zionists" is about as meaningful as saying "I hate sour grapes". It's completely nonsensical.

If one is not able to articulate why Zionists and sour grapes are bad for humankind, without using a generality like 'hate', then the keyboard is not your kind of tool.

ATS is about discussion, not pigeon holes. Sour grapes have a purpose and so does the Zionist movement.

Generalities are for ending civil conversations.

So that thick skin that the mods recommended I grow can be discarded now? Or should I keep it to ward off that clever sarcasm we enjoy so much?

I've grown quite attached to it actually!

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: crazyewok

I know that.

However, some guy that had his house bombed while watching American TV in Iraq, might see 'Americans' as supporting a regime.

Same as Charlie mentioned, Zionism, might be destructive in the most widespread way, it is a select group to which many knowingly or otherwise are part of, they might not be savages running amok but more destructive by greed or stealth, some might see it like that.

Just pointing out the flaws of a selective system of hate.

I think we are overcomplicating it.

Just use common sense is the vibe im getting.

My thoughts: denying ignorance requires illuminating truth. People who truly are interested in truth don't allow prejudice to enter into the picture and do not allow hostility to cloud their judgement.

It is, and always has been, easy to understand.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: crazyewok

Your avatar is offensive to all Americans who fought against you in The Great Revolutionary War Against Freedom From The Tyrant King George III.

*sob*

As a trans-biased-lupine, I feel offended.

But am still fluffy.

Well American flags and mentions of the constitution are offensive to all the poor souls who died fighting for the King against the horrid American terrorists and traitors

*runs off crying*

You made me lol out loud!

The only suggestion I would make to moderators is that it would be worth while to determine who threw the first stone. Not to allow for a harsh response but to identify the troll. It doesn't take too long to figure out what buttons to push on some people and trolls are good at that. Without sounding like outright hate speech they can be pretty hateful. People often respond to others in the same language in which others speak to them. In the case of a troll, that is like targeting yourself for a reprimand even if all you did was respond in kind. Just a thought...

Here are some examples:

The first; "All Indians are lazy drunks" is likely to get removed as a T&C infraction.

Second; "Masqua is a lazy drunk" will get removed as well, even if it's true, because we don't allow attacks on fellow members.

Third; "Why is it that people think Indians are all lazy drunks?" is going to be allowed as a good topic, but posts like the former two in response to that opening post will get removed.

Does that clear things up a bit?

a reply to: amazing

You know, pretty much all I post on here are controversial topics and I usually take a moderate approach to everything which generally means disagreeing with both sides presented, and I can be pretty long winded. I have never once to my knowledge had a post moderated or even told I was getting close to crossing a line.

It's always been pretty straightforward to me. Don't call for peoples deaths, don't call for mob justice against particular groups, treat groups of differing viewpoints with respect, and discuss ideas rather than the personal failings of the messenger.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
Not a single person who thinks Nazis or ISIS are heroes, deserves to be a member here.

I don't think ISIS are heroes but I can certainly understand where they're coming from. If a foreign power spent decades buying your political system, then invaded your country, blowing up everything and killing millions of people, while destabilizing your neighbors, and installing puppet governments all so they could take your natural resources wouldn't you be just a little bit ticked off and want to fight against them? At a minimum it seems to me that they are justified in fighting, even if I disagree with their methods.

originally posted by: MrSpad
For 99.9% of ATS this is not something you should worry about. Debate, even lively and passionate debate is what ATS is about. However, their are people who do not debate, they simply spread the same hate filled nonsense. The kind of stuff that for many members who enter a thread and see it simply leave it and wonder if coming back is even worth it if they have read things like that. When a member enters a thread and sees an opinion they do not agree presented in a for the most part respectful way, they dive in and debate. In the heat of passion debate people may cross the line. That is always going to happen. That is not what we are talking about.

However entering threads for no other reason then to spread hate against a certain group is what we are talking about. You know these people, no matter what the subject they drag in the group they have as a chosen target. They do not debate they simply spew hate. Those are the people who are being put on notice. Trust me nobody is going to miss them and many people will feel a lot better without having to deal with them.

And the Mods are a very diverse group. You could take most subjects on ATS and you would find a debate on them just as lively among the Mods as any among the members. You would never get us to agree on politics, religion, conspiracies etc. The one area we do find common ground on is trying to make ATS the best environment for our members. We want debate, we want passion. We do not want hate. We do not want a place where members are so disgusted by what they read that they never return.

So are "those people" being forewarned in a private message?

That would be the polite thing for the mods to do.

a reply to: Aazadan

I don't think ISIS are heroes but I can certainly understand where they're coming from. If a foreign power spent decades buying your political system, then invaded your country, blowing up everything and killing millions of people, while destabilizing your neighbors, and installing puppet governments all so they could take your natural resources wouldn't you be just a little bit ticked off and want to fight against them? At a minimum it seems to me that they are justified in fighting, even if I disagree with their methods.

Not me. I don't believe they 'fight' because of those reasons. They do it because of a twisted ideology that's been around for much longer than America has been meddling in ME affairs. It's just convenient to blame Europe or cartoon artists or America.

That's another thread though.

I agree! Everyone should be treated equally and fairly when it comes to these guidelines! We all have our emotional/bad days, but that's no reason to bring it to ATS! I look forward to all of the positive and informational discussions!

EF

a reply to: grandmakdw

There is no list.

We go by member alerts and handle things as a team effort.

a reply to: grandmakdw

This isn't a witch hunt. There is no list.

It was a figure of speech.

All members will be expected to maintain the standards laid out.

~Tenth

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Seamrog

originally posted by: intrepid

If all is seen how could there be "an agenda driven moderator?" Cripes.

'Respectfully,' you are one of them.

Really not a fair analogy. EVERYONE hates me.

Join the club

Again, I don't Storm, & I feel your discontent with the Christian bashing tbh.

I've noticed how it's had you around lot less, pisses me off to see good members driven away by vitriol.

I got so tired of the Christian bashing that I have started fighting back with a vengeance.

Perhaps to much vengeance sometimes, but I got so very sick of all the ugly Christian bashing I felt the need to fight back vigorously. Makes me wonder if I'm a target of the new T&C for fighting so hard to dispel the ugly Christian bashing.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Guess what?

You'd be surprised just how often we do exactly that. I send off numerous PM's every week with friendly unofficial suggestions.

Why action something if a gentle reminder works just as well.

a reply to: masqua

Kindly refrain from posting in a manner that appears directed at me as being of that ilk.

I do not need an idiots guide to the gist of the thread.

As I said, I am pointing out the flaws of ATS selective hate.

Generalisations of ''Zionists are the underpants of Satan'' as okay being treated differently to some guy in Iraq saying ''Americans that vote for their government are pro Zionist therefore are the underpants of Satan'', do you see, there will be areas of contention.

Is it not easier to ban all hate than allowing selective hate?

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

You win.

I won't bother trying to explain how we maintain the T&C's here.

Obviously you are taking things personally and I don't want to hurt your feelings.

a reply to: Aazadan

At a minimum it seems to me that they are justified in fighting, even if I disagree with their methods.

I know it's off topic...

But I think it's who ISIS have targeted that has removed that sense of justification.


2cents.

a reply to: masqua

That is the point I took none of it personally but you replied to me as if you presumed that.

I am pointing out flaws, clearly not from a personal perspective but from a fairness point of view.

Validating hate subjectively whilst telling people to stop the hate is veiled hypocrisy.

''Stop the hate.....unless it's directed at.....but not at.....''