Texting and driving fines to get a lot more expensive in Ontario

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Do you really need to ask this question? Tell me if you get dinged a thousand bucks for texting, will you risk it again?

What's it going to take to get kids to stop playing with all our lives? And adults are supposed to lead by example

Yes i need to ask this question.

In Texas not wearing a seatbelt is pretty expensive. People still don't wear seatbelts.

Tell you what: find 1 single law that was passed to stop the populace from doing something that actually resulted in the populous not doing that thing. Last I checked we still have murders, rapes, drunk driving (even folks with multiple DWI's), drug arrests....

People with common sense behave in a manner consistent with common sense. Those who have to be told/threatened....will only listen when it is convenient.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


I don't wear my seat belt and I've learned statistically I will get dinged for it twice every 10 years. My fine is 160 bucks so, so far I've spent 320 on tickets in 12 years. Not bad. And me not wearing my belt has no affect on others.

Tell you what: find 1 single law that was passed to stop the populace from doing something that actually resulted in the populous not doing that thing.

It doesn't work that way. You look at the percentages, not the whole. Whilst the habitual law flouters will continue, the majority won't.

People with common sense behave in a manner consistent with common sense. Those who have to be told/threatened....will only listen when it is convenient.

And the people with no common sense can be reminded with a $1000 fine. You still didn't answer my question which would pretty much wrap up this debate. What's your price? $1000 a year or 10,000? Eventually it's gonna sink in for those who continue.

a reply to: FlySolo

LOL...the real issue lies in proof.

It is damn hard to make a seatbelt ticket stick. I typically wear my belt, but the 2 I got when I was younger were easy to get dismissed....the word of an officer driving 45 in the opposite direction from across 3 lanes of traffic just doesn't tend to pass muster (at least in my experience).

"Eventually it sinks in" was the same logic used in the 70's and 80's when the death penalty was re-enacted as a "deterrant" in many states. During that same time violent crime continued to increase year over year. Do you know what finally caused violent crime to begin declining? It wasn't the death penalty, or the FBI. It was the banning of leaded gasoline.

"Eventually it sinks in" sounds truthy....but I question if it is true. My observations say "No". Humans are so much more complicated than that. Mostly because humans, despite their desires, tend to be extremely illogical. Thats why laws outlawing meth don't work. Hell, having your teeth fall out and your face crater in doesn't deter meth addicts.

My wife works with a lady who drives in to work from about 80 miles away each day. She has no license because it was revoked for having so many traffic tickets. She told my wife, "I told the judge that I wasn't going to stop speeding. Its just what I do, its how i drive. So i just pay the tickets". His response was to take her license. We see how well his solution worked.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Do you know what finally caused violent crime to begin declining? It wasn't the death penalty, or the FBI. It was the banning of leaded gasoline.

But that was a solution. Or at least the discovery of the lead. If indeed that was the cause.

"Eventually it sinks in" sounds truthy....but I question if it is true. My observations say "No". Humans are so much more complicated than that. Mostly because humans, despite their desires, tend to be extremely illogical. Thats why laws outlawing meth don't work. Hell, having your teeth fall out and your face crater in doesn't deter meth addicts.

I understand where you're coming from and the point you're trying to make that frivolous laws don't change human behaviors. I tend to agree with you on this subject but there are somethings which require punitive measures and texting/driving is one of them. Phones and teens are like squirrels and ADHD. The only way to get through to a kid just beginning their life is to hit them in the pocket book. Until we find a solution, heavy fines is the only way to "sink in" the seriousness that we're not messing around.

"I told the judge that I wasn't going to stop speeding. Its just what I do, its how i drive. So i just pay the tickets". His response was to take her license.

Well, that was just dumb. I told a police officer I can't do 50 but that's different I think. The judge? Not too bright.

a reply to: FlySolo

LOL, well the lady isn't so bright either. I got a lot of tickets as a young man....but only the most morose don't understand that at some point we all have to lick some boots. In front of the judge is one of those times.

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan


I don't wear my seat belt and I've learned statistically I will get dinged for it twice every 10 years. My fine is 160 bucks so, so far I've spent 320 on tickets in 12 years. Not bad. And me not wearing my belt has no affect on others.

I am well in agreement on your stance with this once exception.

As a former paramedic, I am well aware that seat belts (despite what some will tell you) do save lives. So let us say in your case you have no seat belt on and crash. You hit nobody else, just a lamppost. While it is true that YOU are the only one injured, because of a lack of seat belt, your injury is now potentially far worse. So now a paramedic crew spends longer on scene. If you perish, double or triple that time while we wait for coroner service (I am speaking solely in my two former regions. Obviously not all regions are the same). If not, then you are transported or potentially heli-lifted to a Level 1. Then trauma surgery, several nurses, doctors, specialist, surgeons and technicians tied up for hours or days because of this accident. What if your seat belt was on? What if all you had was a broken clavicle? What if your seat belt and air bag worked together and all you had were bruises? What if in all this level of trauma service to you, a paramedic unit had to be called from further away to take care of another serious call or the surgeon was working you up while another serious case waited?

I am not by any means saying that this is a constant scenario but it is a real one. A solo accident that has a level of severity to it does not just affect you. Yes it is your car, your insurance and your money but it is also time away from other patients or lack of one paramedic crew's availability. It seems like not much but it is a reality.

Of course I know of those very few cases where a seat belt made things worse and of course I am aware that you could have devastating injuries even with that seat belt but I have no problem whatsoever with safety being a priority and ticket worthy. With respect of course as we are all welcome to opinions.

Now...my opinion on texting while driving may be downright draconian to others. But here it is.

If you are IN park and not moving and texting then there is no crime. If you are at a stop light and your are inconveniencing people by not moving then there is no crime.

That's where it ends for me

My ideal structure would be to have a $1000 ticket for the first moving while texting violation. The second would involve a $2500 ticket and the third involves a 1-year revocation of your license.

That is JUST for the violation.

If you crash because you were texting and harm only yourself then I don't believe anyone but you should have to pay your hospital bill including your insurance carrier.

If you crash and harm someone else while texting then I believe this is a misdemeanor at least.

If you crash and fatally injure someone due to texting while driving I would call for manslaughter charges and prison time.

All this coming from a prior text-driver...because when I did that I put hundreds of people at risk

So to the world, I do apologize sincerely for any chance I took with your lives. I am glad that I never harmed someone. Maybe I should have to pay anyway. -shrug-

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Then in my opinion, no joke, she should do a short amount of jail time. Not because of speeding tickets, but because she has publicly declared in a court of law that she has no concern for rules or the safety of others. What's gonna be the result if she t-bones someone doing 70 in a 45? I would say precisely the same about myself if I were her (and an outside observer to this case)

Why do we adore flouting law? Frankly I believe her line of thinking is ridiculously selfish and very dangerous and she doesn't care one bit. I would almost have nodded a little bit if she somehow came up with some amazing but real reason that she MUST speed to...I don't know save lives, delivers an organ transplant...but no...she speeds and drives recklessly because "it's just how I drive"

That's jail worthy to me...not years in prison worthy...but jail worthy...and I am not sorry I feel that way.

a reply to: KyoZero

Sure cause and effect. Just like the gripe about smokers and health care costs. I get that. However, in my defense, not once in 30 years have I had a serious crash. I'll wear my belt depending on the road/weather conditions out of town travel. In town, no way, not going fast enough to cause any serious damage, unless my wheel falls off. I'm sure you can beg to differ with your experience though.

a reply to: KyoZero

if that story is that underwhelming, you should peruse Facebook. If your FB feed doesn't have things that make you want to leave the planet, you could check out Failbook to see some of the true gems from the West.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Exceptional post and completely agree with it.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Hopefully I am making it clear that I respect all in this discussion. And while you and I may disagree that people should be fined for text-driving, I do unfortunately agree that the laws don't seem to stop enough.

As for Facebook, I remove people rather quickly that are not family, close friends, or a select few others. But even so, I removed my cousin because she seems to have no problem updating her status, while driving...and proud of it

I think the best solution to get the message across to text and drivers is to confiscate their phones.
It can be done on an escalating scale. 7 days for a first offence, 30 days for a second offence
etc.