Christmas is not Pagan

Yule Log;

December 24th, is 3 days after the Winter Solstice, when the Sun stops decending and begins its ascent. For 3 days the suns passage does not move. the days are all the same length,from the 21st to the 24th. On the 25th, the Sun begins to ascend again, and the days get longer.

The Yule Log was a large piece of wood, set aside and kept for burning on the 25th, to celebrate the Return of the Sun, to celebrate the days getting longer, the return of warmth, the growing season, etc. It was a Party, a great party and people celebrated with Sex, food, Alcohol and merriment. It was a Grand time in every sense of the word.

These were great days, when people celebrated life without Guilt.

Originally posted by toolmaker

It was a Party, a great party and people celebrated with Sex, food, Alcohol and merriment. It was a Grand time in every sense of the word.

These were great days, when people celebrated life without Guilt.

Other than those who have family get togethers, it's still celebrated today much the same way......I don't know how guilty they feel though.....I know people who go to the bars on xmas eve.....and no, I am not just talking about those I know that are Pagan!

Quote: "The Yule Log was a large piece of wood, set aside and kept for burning on the 25th, to celebrate the Return of the Sun, to celebrate the days getting longer, the return of warmth, the growing season, etc. It was a Party, a Great Party and people Celebrated with Sex, Food, Alcohol and Merriment (Music & Dancing?). It was a Grand time in every sense of the word.

These were great days, when people celebrated life without Guilt (Thanks Catholic Church)."

WOW - now that sounds like MY KIND of Christianity - were can I sign up for THIS?!!

As a Christian and a follower of the laws and Holy days presented in the Bible I do not observe Christmas. I am not one for pet verses and believe that all subjects should be thoroughly proven by finding all of the information available in the word. I just thought I would share a passage in Jeremiah regarding ancient traditions.

"Thus says the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen�For the customs of the people are vain: for one cuts a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.� Jeremiah 10:2-5

Well Seraphim, for many early Christians this was how life was celebrated. It was far different than what is popularly practiced today. Jesus didnt come here to bring guilt and sin, but take it away. It wasnt until hypocrisy of the political church, the puritans, etc came into power that the message was scrambled.

Jesus made fun of the scribes, wrapped up in the doctrine, not seeing the forest for the trees. Jesus laughed, ate, drank wine, heck, he made the wine. He experienced Life. There is a great parable, of the prodigal son. The story ends in a great party, and the son not attending the party is the one with issues.
In Luke jesus critics accuse him of being a party animal because there was much drinking and eating around him.

Children came to him because why..? he must have been a blast to be around. his eyes must have sparkled and laughing, his messages were of Joy not condemnation.



We have been sold a bill of goods that does not exist, and was never meant to be taught.

Originally posted by LadyV
The old religion and ways never died out.......it's still here and always has been....

So ah...are you talking about a religion that pre-dates the creation of the universe or are you referring to the Bible?

Originally posted by Skibum
A little trivia.... *SNIP*

There were (and still are) two traditional dates for Easter, one celebrated by the Eastern Christian tradition and one by the Western tradition. In the East the tradition was designed to coincide with the Jewish Passover, while the Western tradition developed a different calendar. This caused some friction between the traditions for a time but it was eventually resolved.
*SNIP*

And a little more trivia. We all know that the date of Easter varies from year to year.
I saw a show that said Easter is decided in this way:
it is the first sunday after the first full moon flollowing the spring equinox. Certainly that is a pagan method for determining a christian holiday

With all the whining about the consolidation of holidays, who votes to separate the dates again? We'll really confuse businesses, schools and governments but I think it might be fun! Who's with me?

Originally posted by saint4God


So ah...are you talking about a religion that pre-dates the creation of the universe or are you referring to the Bible?

I'm talking about the pagan religions here well before Christianity.

Originally posted by LadyV
I'm talking about the pagan religions here well before Christianity.

Just yanking your chain LadyV It was a loaded question to one of those age-old arguments.

[edit on 27-12-2004 by saint4God]

Christmas is an amalgam of many traditions and Christmas is short for Christ's mass, so even the name does not denote a birth event, even though Christians do celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25th. There is nothing inherently wrong with the appropriation of other traditions to celebrate Christmas. Each one has is a symbol of a value consistent with the message of the season.

Quote: "Jesus didn�t come here to bring Guilt and Sin."

No that is that Catholic Church's Job - Sex is BAAAAAAD & all of that!

Jesus Hung Out with Sinners & the Gentile Goyim Shiksas! Jesus didn't believe in Segregation. He was a COOL GUY that Jesus - I respect him!

[edit on 28-12-2004 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Jesus Hung Out with Sinners & the Gentile Goyim Shiksas! Jesus didn't believe in Segregation. He was a COOL GUY that Jesus - I respect him!

Cool.

Jesus (if all my research for my thesis is of importance), was born either on 1 AD or 4AD, also we was born in July.

To make the story short the census ordered by the romans was staged after the first crop of the season and all in the holly land wer ein a hurry to comply and to be back for seeding for the second harvest of the season he must have been born between Jul 10 and July 25.

All the December hoopla is just to accomodate to pagan rites of the germanics and the romans (the "saturnalia") I think Zero pointed it quite good....

I'd have to disagree with some of what Skibum presented regarding Easter. In general, the prevailing 'pagan' belief system had stood for many generations and was followed by the great majority of the populace. Much of it centered on Sun worship and the various entities associated with it. Easter was the opposite of Christmas. Where the latter had celebrations to fend off the darkness and coax the return of light, the Spring solstice (Easter) celebrations were focused on the return and zenith of the sun. Sunrise service, Easter Bunnny and colored eggs all derive from parts of Egyptian (and other cultures) revolving around sun worship. The Bible specifically lays out all the official Chrsitain holidays (in addition to lots of other things including what one can and cannot eat). Isn't it odd the Easter, the supposed holiest day of the Christian year, is named after Astarte, fixed based upon the solstice, celebrated with a sunrise service and then followed by a ham (pork) dinner?

Likewise our celebration of Christmas follows the 'pagan' holiday of the winter solstice with many of the legends and traditions carrying over with it. If Christ had been born in the winter the shepherds would have likely died of hypothermia along with their flocks in the fields. And as pointed out earlier his actual birth can be fixed by the date of the Roman census as well as the birth of John the Baptist and the secret revealed in the Bible to Mary by John's mother.

Organized Christianity simply could not dislodge the traditions of the masses and instead chose to assimilate and align their celebrations. It seems to have worked.

Quote: "Easter, the supposed holiest day of the Christian year, is named after Astarte."

"Easter" = "Eastara" = "Ashara/Astarte" - Yes those wacky Jews did even Worship the GODDESS - until the Cult/Priesthood of the Penis/Phallus went on a Rampage & cut all of that stuff out - A shame really since the "Holy Spirit" of LOVE is a FEMININE one - like a Mother's Love for her Child!