How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

double post

a reply to: WarminIndy

Do you think I don't have it? What makes you think that way?

This is getting interesting now.

LOL!! Right? See what I mean about this whole topic?
What makes people think whatever way they think?


Why would anyone say to someone else: "You don't have what it takes! Go away and be damned!" I just don't think that's a valid thing, or sound thinking. I might have hypersensitivity to language nuance and body language and voice and dialogue interchanges and expression that some others don't have (like, my husband); does that make me "wrong"?

In some cases, I'm sure. (That what I think is true -- and also that sometimes I am wrong). But I also have known people who I consider personality disordered who turn around and say, "That is NOT what I meant! I never said that!"
Very sly passive-aggressiveness, and there's no fighting it.
They won't admit it, and often they don't even realize they're doing it.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

LOL!! Sorrryyy.

Seriously though, I honestly have no afterlife beliefs or expectations. There are plenty of things I ponder as possibilities, but in the end I just don't know. I'm not even sure I believe NDE are anything more than visions in a dying mind.

I'm at the crossroads myself - does it all just wink out, and that's it, pfft, we're done? Like before we were born? Just - nada.

I still have some "faith" in NDE stories, and I definitely have had the sensation of 'ghosts' or 'unseen entities' - even seen objects move of their own accord for no apparent reason.
I've felt a comforting unseen hand on my shoulder or a warm hug while all by myself in times of severe emotional pain, too.

But I just don't really know.
You know? ... I just don't know, ya know.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: beezzer

Faith is a gift from Something Other than man.

Without faith we would go insane. A vulnerable baby/toddler has no choice but to have faith in it's parents, family, environment. Later, as children, we would go insane if they couldn't muster faith in our teachers, police, laws.

As young adults, we begin to have faith in our own understanding of faith and betrayal, as our critical thinking instincts kick in. At that point, we can no longer choose to believe, we either believe or we don't believe in those things that we had blind faith in, when we were children, out of necessity.

There is a push from those who are invested in indoctrination, to encourage us to dismiss our critical thinking instincts, that arise out of betrayal, as our personal failings, rather than the failings of an unreliable belief system. Many religious fundamentalists that attack us, accusing us of being devils and demons, children of Satan, do so because we can no longer abide in blind faith, because we encourage critical thinking in those we perceive as being brainwashed.

You touch on a very important point. That Faith is what we trust to care for us - make us safe. That trust can be invested in different things at different times. Self, Money, religion, Him/Her, g(G)od, good looks, whatever. I think people often think they believe in god but dont behave in a manner that reflects that spoken belief.

Faith is when belief and action/speech/thought are coherent. It's a nebulous and sometimes fleeting thing - I find.

So many assert great belief in God and then spend their lives pursuing material rather than spiritual means of succor. We all do it and being aware of it really is helpful in progressing on your particular path.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Maybe you are a natural born cold reader

I don't know. Perhaps a tiny bit.....
but I have to be interacting with people, so it's more of a "warm read".

I don't know. So many charlatans out there! It's as bad as having so many preachers, truly! Or, dare I say - "lawyers"?

I'm no "psychic" - but I feel like I feel stuff intensely when in an interaction with others.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml


The map isn't necessarily the territory,

I would say The Map isn't The Territory. And it bears repeating. We, or just speaking for myself, must experience and traverse the Territory on my own.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Agreed.

It ties in with the idea that broad is the path and narrow is the gate.

So many claim faith, but how many really have it? I think across the world and all its various faith, the actual number of truly faithful is much less. Not because people are knowingly lying but because many confuse being devoted for being truly devout.

a reply to: FyreByrd

We, or just speaking for myself, must experience and traverse the Territory on my own.

Exactly!

A Menu is not a meal.
William James:

A bill of fare with one real raisin on it instead of the word 'raisin,' with one real egg instead of the word 'egg,' might be an inadequate meal, but it would at least be a commencement of reality. The contention of the survival-theory that we ought to stick to non-personal elements exclusively seems like saying that we ought to be satisfied forever with reading the naked bill of fare.

I think, therefore, that however particular questions connected with our individual destinies may be answered, it is only by acknowledging them as genuine questions, and living in the sphere of thought which they open up, that we become profound.

csp.org...

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I WANT your feedback about this.
Yours and everyone else's. How do you "think of me" in terms of your faith and your certitude that it is the only viable one?

According to my personal belief system I see you and everyone in this world (good, bad and the ugly) as God-Self experiencing ITSELF through that person's reality tunnel (ego/filter/awareness).

Do unto others as you would like done unto thee becomes literal.

Again, this is my personal belief system:

You are GOD and so is everybody else. Some see God standing apart and in separation from creation which is OK since they are entitled to their beliefs, and then there are those who see themselves as God (through illumination) and understand their God-Self as being all of creation expressing itself through individualized points of awareness (like a sun flower field); not part of; or within God; but God Itself experiencing Itself as a unique facet of the whole living in the illusion of separation.

From my personal experiences; the awareness that we are God allows for a deeper inner unveiling to occur which in turn gives rise to a broader awareness and understanding of the nature of existence and of Self which then leads to a more conscious means of expressing our creative divine selves into the world. We become more creators of cause and less pawns of effect so to speak.

We can will things much easier and appear "lucky" to the uninitiated when we understand our true selves. One will come to understand the true meaning of "keep your EYE on the prize" and experience the fruit of such understanding objectively in the world of outer appearances. You will never "miss the mark".

"This is the ineffable secret, the ultimate illumination, the key to peace and power. YOU ARE GOD. If you will accept this towering truth. dare to stand atop this magnificent pinnacle, universal consciousness will be revealed to you from within. God is there. It is he who peers from behind your eyes, who is your own consciousness, who is your very SELF. You are NOT just part of God; you are ALTOGETHER God, and God is ALTOGETHER YOU." - Uell S. Anderson from the book "Three Magic Words"

...but many are so afraid or too ignorant (asleep) to even allow themselves to entertain this possibility due to cognitive dissonance.

"Three Magic Words" is a great book, IMO. If Neville Goddard's teachings don't resonate, then perhaps this may help one begin to open their eyes. Maybe Nicolas Tesla's spiritual writings, or Einstein's, or Jung's, Blake's, Kant's writings can help paint an even clearer picture of the Divine Imagination (personified as Christ).

Again, these are just my personal beliefs that happened to align with my own personal life experiences (weighed empirically). Do not accept them if they do not resonate with you!

See my friend? I really don't care what the belief system entails. I only care about tangible results from it. Gnosis.

Again, believe what resonates with you. You may find everything I believe in to be nonsense and that is perfectly cool!

It all depends on how introspective we are when presented with new insight.

The two eyes of the soul of man cannot both perform their work at once: but if the soul shall see with the right eye into eternity, then the left eye must close itself and refrain from working, and be as though it were dead. For if the left eye be fulfilling its office toward outward things, that is holding converse with time and the creatures; then must the right eye be hindered in its working; that is, in its contemplation. Therefore, whosoever will have the one must let the other go; for ‘no man can serve two masters.’" - Meister Eckhart

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

ETA: Yeah, so I just reread my whole post to which you responded.
so, you DO SEE ME as a hopelessly uninitiated unwelcome and condemned stupid person? Because, like I said, I'm not "chosen" to your club? To your team?
I flunked out and was expelled, too - because of my behavior?

Reminds me of high-school cliques.
No thanks.

ETA?????

Estimate Time of Arrival???

a reply to: Involutionist

Again, these are just my personal beliefs that happened to align with my own personal life experiences (weighed empirically). Do not accept them if they do not resonate with you!

See my friend? I really don't care what the belief system entails. I only care about tangible results from it. Gnosis.

Again, believe what resonates with you. You may find everything I believe in to be nonsense and that is perfectly cool!

It all depends on how introspective we are when presented with new insight.

It TOTALLY resonates with me!

My personal beliefs are the same.
Thank you.

a reply to: FyreByrd

ETA?????

Estimate Time of Arrival???

Edit To Add:

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

That's the interesting thing isn't it? There are indeed things being experienced. Some more miraculous than others. But still, something is going on. Those experiences are often filtered through personal beliefs and expectations though, in my opinion. I always consider that there may be mundane explanations for many things as well. Without personally experiencing something, I can't be certain. Even having experienced things, I don't have all the information to form an explanation.

Maybe to some I will sound like a hypocrite. In one breath claiming I don't know for sure what's "out there", and in another breath claiming to know this or that specific God doesn't exist. In case I haven't been clear enough on that.. The reason I reject this or that God(s) and their narratives has more to do with the lack of evidence of their existence. Weighing all of the evidence, I can easily conclude them false. Again, I do not deny that people have powerful experiences related to their specific beliefs (not just religious beliefs) but I think that perhaps in the inner workings of the mind it gets worked out to fit those expectations. In a large part it's cultural.

Btw, if you're interested: My Shadow Person Experience

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You don't have to believe if you don't want. i have seen people not wanting to accept something they didn't want to believe simply because they didn't want to accept it.

As an example, in one particular occasion I was a witness with a couple dozen other people or so of an ufo. I had binoculars with me and was able to verify that it was a metallic object with no wings, and no engine that I could see which was floating in the sky. It also made no sound whatsoever.

Another man also had a pair of binoculars and he kept claiming that it was a balloon. But no balloon could shine like that. It was as if dozens and dozens of different white lights shone in it's surface. The lights imo was the sun shinning off the surface of the metallic object, but it was shinning as if it had dozens and dozens of metallic panels aligned in different directions, and each panels/light seemed as if they were moving and not always in unison, but the object was not moving at all. It's kind of weird to describe but i guess that's the best way i can describe it.

It wasn't moving at all, and stayed in the same spot for what must have been a few minutes. The man kept saying it was a balloon and was yelling to the rest of the witnesses who were pointing out facts that told us it couldn't be a balloon. But the man was adamant and he left meanwhile the rest of the eyewitnesses stayed.

I lended my binoculars to another eyewitness and I asked him to describe what he was seeing, and the person described the same thing i was seeing.

In the end some clouds covered the object momentarily, and when the clouds moved away from the spot the object was at, the object was gone.

People will "believe' whatever they want to believe. Even if there are facts in their face that shows them things they thought were impossible there are many people who still choose not to believe. There are many members in these forums who are just like that man, and no matter what evidence you show them, they simply refuse to believe what is right in front of them.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: FyreByrd

ETA?????

Estimate Time of Arrival???

Edit To Add:

Muchos Grasssssss

a reply to: ketsuko

It ties in with the idea that broad is the path and narrow is the gate.

Hmmmm.

No. I think it ties in with the Hindu Proverb:

"There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading in the same direction, so it doesnt matter which path you take. The only one wasting time is the one who runs around and around the mountain,
telling everyone else that their path is wrong."

So - you start in a "narrow gate", but as you ascend on your own path, it eventually gets wider and easier to navigate. And you come across others who have got there by their own path.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: WarminIndy

Do you think I don't have it? What makes you think that way?

This is getting interesting now.

LOL!! Right? See what I mean about this whole topic?
What makes people think whatever way they think?


Why would anyone say to someone else: "You don't have what it takes! Go away and be damned!" I just don't think that's a valid thing, or sound thinking. I might have hypersensitivity to language nuance and body language and voice and dialogue interchanges and expression that some others don't have (like, my husband); does that make me "wrong"?

In some cases, I'm sure. But I also have known people who I consider personality disordered who turn around and say, "That is NOT what I meant! I never said that!"
Very sly passive-aggressiveness, and there's no fighting it.
They won't admit it, and often they don't even realize they're doing it.

That's why the internet is not very good for interfacing, because this isn't interfacing. This is a virtual reality.

I'm thinking of making all my posts quotes from Shakespeare. Here's one now, just for me...

Out, damned spot! out, I say!--One: two: why, then, 'tis time to do't.--Hell is murky!--Fie, my lord, fie! a soldier, and afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our power to account?--Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him.

But then again..what do I know?

LOL.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml


The map isn't necessarily the territory,

I would say The Map isn't The Territory. And it bears repeating. We, or just speaking for myself, must experience and traverse the Territory on my own.

And the word is not the thing.

Ceci n'est pas une pipe

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

To get back to the OP - before I'm off to a nap...

"You just have to Believe"

You hear this a lot in some circles.

And many people find it much 'easier' just to go along - to go along. Belief, faith, hope, dare I say charity, etc don't mean too much to them but 'belonging' does. Just doing what someone in authority tells you (kind of like the Old Testament) to do is much easier then practising and failing and picking up over and over. Their outer behavoir will conform to basic norms of the group in public but they will never reap the benefits of ongoing work of self-reflection and self-regeneration.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You are as I was, growing up in disbelief. I still am. I am 53 yrs old now. Midwestern born and raised too. I think that whatever You are comfortable with, go with that. Who's to say who is right or wrong really. Just my 2 cents here. Just live Your Life as You see fit! You Keep Your Faith! In whatever that is...