How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

That's Mr. Brother, to you.

I was looking for a different song to plug in here. Accidently found this one instead.

I'm talking about telling someone on the brink of suicide that they are worthy. That sort of thing.

I don't know who told me, the gods themselves perhaps because I was such a loner.

I'm still looking for that other song. It's really funny.

or the theory that our energy and atoms are recycled, reused, repurposed.

And don't call my religion a theory

I can't find the song on youtube. It's Mr. God by Don Henry January 01, 1991

To "me" this is what it all comes down to

soundclick.com...

The Rivers Edge

Take my hand before I drown
Pull me out and lay me down
Don't leave me here for dead
Rescue me from the rivers edge

Hold me lowered in your stream
Make me whole wash me clean
Dry my tears anoint my head
Carry me to the rivers edge

When it's time to shed my skin
Walk with you without sin
Lift me up to my bed
I made my peace with the rivers edge

a reply to: Rex282

Thank you,

"Rescue me from the rivers edge
Carry me to the rivers edge
I made my peace with the rivers edge"

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm talking about telling someone on the brink of suicide that they are worthy. That sort of thing.

When saying "God loves you" just doesn't mean a damn thing.

When recoil is the response to trying to hug ...

You got nothin'

"I Love you" as an actual commitment on your own part. That's a hard one, because betrayal can be fatal, and what really do you have in you to avoid betrayal.

Now that I'm in a somber mood:


Does anyone know where the love of God goes

when the waves turn minutes to hours?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Not all people are divinely inspired, that is why they have others interpret it. But I have come to discover that the Bible is really not just straight forward in presentation, it has many hidden meanings, some double meanings and many idioms that people who read in English aren't aware of.

For instance, the idiom "give up the ghost" is fairly old, it means "to die". Some English readers, especially Americans, aren't aware of the language in which the KJV was transliterated. The KJV was translated and transliterated from the earlier Latin Vulgate, Bishop's Bible, the Wycliffe Bible and the Geneva Bible.

I wasn't referring to divinely inspired interpretations, though I know that many feel the Lord guides them in that way. I was talking about divinely inspired authorship.

The reason that people assume there are so many errors is because the Roman Catholic church said the KJV was in error. It was politically motivated. And some people actually think that King James sat and translated it himself.......

I'm not assuming there are errors, I know there are errors.

Science and History in the Bible

I know a lot of stuff on that site is sarcastic and nit picky. No doubt some things can be explained theologically. A lot of it can't be true unless you suspend reason and logic. Sorry I don't have time to put together some examples of what I feel are some big mistakes. Maybe I will do that later though.

All of the Bibles today are someone's interpretation. But here is an example of transliterations and I could not say it is in error,

Hawaiian Pidgin

Luke 23:46 Jesus wen yell real loud. He say, “Fadda, I give you my spirit.” Wen he say dat, he mahke.

King James

Luke 23: 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

I think the Hawaiian Pidgin is colorful and it isn't KJV, but still conveys the same meaning even if it doesn't say the exact same words.

This one, Revised Catholic Standard Version says this...

Luke 23: 46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, “Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

Not as colorful, a little bland, still conveys same meaning. I think maybe you have been exposed to more KJV proponents and critics of the KJV. I tend to use the KJV because I am more familiar with it and I have heard many people say they can't understand the Shakespearian English and they can't understand Shakespeare either.

These aren't the kind of errors I'm talking about. What you describe above I don't really consider in error. As you point out the words may be different but the meaning and intent stays the same. As for translation, I've always had a KJV.

You and I just came to different understandings. My first degree was in History and I have read much about other mythologies, that really right now I am not quite seeing them as mythologies. I think there is truth in that as well.

I agree we have come to different understandings.

There is no doubt that in early Christianity there were influences from paganism, however, one has to consider also that in early Europe, paganism was broad and diverse as well. People ASSUME that the Easter Bunny is Christian, but we all know that it has nothing to do with Christianity, but it is a strange thing, European Christians have always tried to meld religious views, that is why they still celebrate Walpurgisnacht

I personally have no real issue with Christians celebrating whatever holidays etc. that they want. I just find it incredibly ignorant (intended or not), and hypocritical of them to do so. Not broad brushing here but it's incredibly hypocritical to use the Bible to condemn other people for things like homosexuality but completely and utterly ignore the Bible when it comes to practicing "vain traditions" and "yoking up with non believers" etc.

I don't think you have heard me before say exactly what my religious views are, I am not the typical Fundie...I am Pentequakemystic. I just made that up. Or I am Mystical Pentequake. Yes, that's what I am going to call it.

Interesting.

Anyway, I understand where you are coming from and it is ok with me. No one can force you to believe and no one can judge you for not believing, that isn't our job. Our job is to love you regardless.

Thanks. You know, I do find it amusing how more often then not Christians can be more loving than their God.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: WarminIndy

And that is why I reject reincarnation, because the continual cycle of human misery cannot be abated if one does not have an end point. That is cruel, I think.

Okay, so.....

now we see where "chosen beliefs" come in.

You reject reincarnation. But that doesn't mean it isn't true....some people say it is, and some say it isn't. I reject the judgmental image of "Jesus" that includes exclusivity, chosenness, hell-fire and damnation, and some people say "but it's true." Maybe it is, but maybe it's not. I reject it because it is cruel, I think.

To me, reincarnation makes more sense.
To you, Jesus makes more sense.

Is either of those "true"? We don't know. And we won't know, until we slough off 'ex machina' and return to whatever state we are, fundamentally, and without question. We don't know what that "fundamental state" is.

But those who believe in reincarnation don't insist that "you have to believe it, or else."
See what I mean?

Yes, I do see what you mean.

You and I are beneficiaries of the ability to choose our religious or non-religious convictions. For that, we should be grateful, because tonight there are literally billions of people without a choice.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: WarminIndy

What? No, honey, I was in my 20s in the '80s.

I graduated high school in 1985. You are just a few short years ahead of me. I didn't mean you were old, only that you would remember the 1970s more than me.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You and I are beneficiaries of the ability to choose our religious or non-religious convictions. For that, we should be grateful, because tonight there are literally billions of people without a choice.

You are right about that, for sure!!!!

a reply to: WarminIndy

I didn't mean you were old, only that you would remember the 1970s more than me.

lol!!!
Funny, I thought you meant that I was "too young" to remember the 80s.
I graduated from HS in 1976.

It's all good. At least we are able to sort it out by communicating!

Don't know how I misread that so entirely......yeah, I was before the 80s.


*blushes*
My bad.....sorry about that.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm really sorry about that Dear Mr. God video.

I posted it before I listened to the end.

Letters to God is a 2010 Christian drama film directed by David Nixon and starring Robyn Lively, Jeffrey Johnson, Tanner Maguire, Michael Bolten and Bailee Madison. The story was written by Patrick Doughtie about his son Tyler, with the screenplay penned by Doughtie, Art D'Alessandro, Sandra Thrift and Cullen Douglas. The story took place in Nashville, Tennessee, but the movie was filmed in the Orlando, Florida area.

Letters to God is based on the true story of Tyler Doherty, who was played in the film by Tanner Maguire. Parts of the story are real, and others were fictionalized, such as the character of a drunken mailman named Brady McDaniels (Jeffrey Johnson), who receives Tyler's "letters to God."

Wikipedia [retrieved 5/22/2015]

Propaganda warning:

A boy died of cancer.
He did not write the book, the screenplay, or the song.
He did not produce the movie, the song, or the music video.
And those were not his words or his voice at the end.

So if you felt pissed off at the end, it's OK. You are not a monster.

But it was on topic. How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

answer: Proper exposure to emotionally charged propaganda.

And I use emotionally charged propaganda. I'm going to hell for sure.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. Buddha

a reply to: WarminIndy

May I ask you this, do you assume that Jesus only came to this Earth as the we know Him in the Jewish context when Jesus Himself said "I have sheep of another fold"?

Don't ask me Warmiinindy - I'm still trying to decide if I believe a UFO crashed in Roswell

I was mostly amused and interested at your distress over being forced to reincarnate against your will

I'll leave you to debate the many possibilities that religion offers with people who are so much more knowledgeable about this than I am

:-)

Also - I'll try and remember, for the future, that funny doesn't fly in some threads

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Also - I'll try and remember, for the future, that funny doesn't fly in some threads

Well, if you forget, that could be very funny too.

Keep laughing and smiling, Spiramirabilis. It's a wonderful life sign.


One of the nicest things for me about getting older is that I can always plead senility when I screw up - e.g., farting at a friend's funeral. Of course, if deafness also abounds amongst my friends, this particular faux pas is generally not a problem in terms of " Who did THAT!!??".

I am surprised more people don't lie about their age in the opposite direction on the internet, it does have its benefits! Oh wait, maybe they do, though I seldom see senility as an excuse for weird posts. Maybe they are too senile to remember or that the post is weird?

I will stop now before I have to claim senility as the reason for this post, though maybe it is. Maybe I should just have a general disclaimer in my sig - Senile! Read at Your Own Risk!

Then I think I would pretty much get a free pass.

a reply to: pthena

So if you felt pissed off at the end, it's OK. You are not a monster.

But it was on topic. How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

answer: Proper exposure to emotionally charged propaganda.

And I use emotionally charged propaganda. I'm going to hell for sure.

I wasn't pissed - it was actually a lovely song.

Why would you be sorry?
I've heard many a tear-jerking "God" songs, mostly country music.
They are very sentimental and sweet, for the most part.

One of my favorites is "Love, Me"
In fact when I my dad was dying, the last time I left his side while he was sleeping, I left a card for him for my mom or brother to read to him with the poem in the song, tweaked to be to "daddy" instead of "darling"....I expected to be back to see him one more time, but within a hour, he was gone, and my brother and I were driving back over there when he slipped away. I have never known grief so intense before....
but here it is:


"Love, Me" (the hghlighted part is what I wrote in the card for him)

I read a note my grandma wrote back in nineteen twenty-three.
Grandpa kept it in his coat, and he showed it once to me. He said,
"Boy, you might not understand, but a long, long time ago,
Grandma's daddy didn't like me none, but I loved your Grandma so."

We had this crazy plan to meet and run away together.
Get married in the first town we came to, and live forever.
But nailed to the tree where we were supposed to meet, instead
Of her, I found this letter, and this is what it said:

If you get there before I do, don't give up on me.
I'll meet you when my chores are through;
I don't know how long I'll be.
But I'm not gonna let you down, darling wait and see.
And between now and then, till I see you again,
I'll be loving you. Love, me.

I read those words just hours before my Grandma passed away,
In the doorway of a church where me and Grandpa stopped to pray.
I know I'd never seen him cry in all my fifteen years;
But as he said these words to her, his eyes filled up with tears.

If you get there before I do, don't give up on me.
I'll meet you when my chores are through;
I don't know how long I'll be.
But I'm not gonna let you down, darling wait and see.
And between now and then, till I see you again,
I'll be loving you. Love, me.
Between now and then, till I see you again,
I'll be loving you. Love, me.

It still breaks me up. I'm crying now, just listening to it. Daddy died on Aug 2, 2010. I remember asking him in those last days, every time I saw him, "If I don't see you again before you go, will you let me know where you are, so I can find you later?" And he nodded and said, yes.
I stayed with my mom that night, and as I was leaving in the morning, she gave me his old Bulova Accutron watch that he loved so much, that I'd tried to have fixed for him. It wasn't working, though...it was non-functional.

I put it on my wrist, and the next day I was sitting outside, grieving, and I looked at that watch. It had advanced 11 seconds. All by itself.
I took it as a signal. Was it just having been moved while I was wearing it that it did that? Or was it Dad's message?
I chose to believe the latter.

But - here's another song I love, that gets the same emotionally charged response from me, from a mother to her daughters:


"I Hope You Dance"

I hope you never lose your sense of wonder
You get your fill to eat but always keep that hunger
May you never take one single breath for granted
God forbid love ever leave you empty handed
I hope you still feel small when you stand beside the ocean
Whenever one door closes I hope one more opens
Promise me that you'll give faith a fighting chance
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance

I hope you dance
I hope you dance

I hope you never fear those mountains in the distance
Never settle for the path of least resistance
Livin' might mean takin' chances, but they're worth takin'
Lovin' might be a mistake, but it's worth makin'
Don't let some Hellbent heart leave you bitter
When you come close to sellin' out, reconsider
Give the heavens above more than just a passing glance
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance

I hope you dance (Time is a wheel in constant motion always rolling us along)
I hope you dance

I hope you dance (Tell me who wants to look back on their years and wonder)
I hope you dance (Where those years have gone?)

I hope you still feel small when you stand beside the ocean
Whenever one door closes I hope one more opens
Promise me that you'll give faith a fighting chance
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance

Dance

I hope you dance
I hope you dance (Time is a wheel in constant motion always rolling us along)
I hope you dance (Tell me who wants to look back on their years and wonder?)


Neither are specifically "God" songs or "Christian" songs, but they speak to spirituality and love. They speak to my heart and how I see things...

My daughter drove down from Minneapolis last night, and we sat up talking into 2:30. She is just now getting up, and this song always makes me think of her.

LOVE is the thing. Only love.
And that is where I am with all of this.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

"i hope you dance" is basically life in a song. and the message i take from it is...the biggest risk is not taking any.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I think it's beautiful. The video is so lovely.
Thanks for your response!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I wasn't pissed - it was actually a lovely song.

Why would you be sorry?
I've heard many a tear-jerking "God" songs,

Just that you kept adding more things that made you angry in that post, escalating all the way to suicide.

I thought it must have been the very end of the video "I just want everybody to believe".

It was bugging me. Then my ex-wife came over and we were watching movies together.

We never had a theme song.

But, when I was engaged to one of her "bff"s it didn't take too long for me to pick a theme song.



I'd walk around singing it, and she thought it was sweet that we had a theme song.

I guess we must have both been a bit sick.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Rex282

Thank you,

"Rescue me from the rivers edge
Carry me to the rivers edge
I made my peace with the rivers edge"

You're welcome.

a reply to: Rex282
Hi. I replied to your summary (above) with this post:

a reply to Rex282: bb23108

I was hoping you have a response about it relative to your understanding of quantum theory.

Thanks.

a reply to: pthena

okay, I see it.

Yeah - I had not even watched the video when I typed that. I watched it this morning.

Now I see the post you're mentioning........

It is what I meant to say - but, I was not angry. Not at all.
It was more about how just the slightest kind or wise thing you say to someone who is inner turmoil and despair, or who is suffering abuse and loathsome circumstances, who is lower than low and hopeless......

sometimes just attention, and respect, and recognition of their pain...where they feel safe to talk about it, or even if it's just a 'take-away' moment that resonates in their heads in the future - you know - that "one thing" someone said that "changed your life."

That sort of thing. It's a therapy style, and mentor style, and Big Brother/Big Sister style - to acknowledge the person is a valid individual, and listen to them and what they feel and need. Objectively, and then try to collaborate to envision possible options for change.
Or, they just think to themselves after hearing a statement on a train, or reading a passage in a book - that resonates.
Those sorts of tiny things that we do when we show kindness to and interest in others -

can make a big difference.

It's the sowing of the seed.
Or the tossing of a pebble into the pond.
We never know whose life we might have touched in a beautiful way, and we'll never even know it.




Clear as mud, right?!
lol