Welfare reforms, where should it stop?

Good evening all.

Okay, I have listened to the Tory party and there idealistic values regarding welfare reform, but what they fails to mention is that the Global financial crash, that affected the U.K massively, thanks to our reliance on the banking sector. i.e The City.

Cameron spouts off about the scrounging element in society, but let us be honest with ourselves, their stance of continuously attacking the poor, the infirm and the elderly, absolutely sticks n the throat, when the likes of Iain Duncan Smith, attack the people who are honestly in receipt of welfare benefits, whilst claiming expense for a £35.00 breakfast. That's one breakfast at the rate of around half the benefit paid to jobseekers. Many of the same jobseekers who lost employment and now find themselves on zero hour contracts.

Of course he talks a good game about chasing the tax avoiders and evaders, but he probably has brunch with the majority of these people at least once every few months.

They obviously display every trait of a controlled Government, yet many choose to believe every word they say, simply because you support the party. A party that is every bit as split as the Labour Party and Lib Dems.

If you work for an employer who pays minimum wage, you can bet your life that he is making at least five times as much off you. And business have sided with the Tories, simply because they protect them and guide them into paying minimum taxes. Labour was able to do the same until the banking crisis, sure they did not run with a surplus, which Government has? Show me a Government that has run with a surplus, we've just paid off our loans from WWI for goodness sake. They are talking absolute bollocks when it comes to the deficit, we are never going to pay it off, ever. That's the point!!

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
If you work for an employer who pays minimum wage, you can bet your life that he is making at least five times as much off you.

Seriously? Do you have any documentation that proves that?

a reply to: schuyler

It's a business standard, are you not familiar with this model?

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: schuyler

It's a business standard, are you not familiar with this model?

Please tell me you're familiar with overhead costs and acceptable overhead multipliers.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: schuyler

It's a business standard, are you not familiar with this model?

You are avoiding the question. Please provide the source of this "model."

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: schuyler

It's a business standard, are you not familiar with this model?

Please tell me you're familiar with overhead costs and acceptable overhead multipliers.

Yes of course old chap. I think you need to ask schuyler that question.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: schuyler

It's a business standard, are you not familiar with this model?

Please tell me you're familiar with overhead costs and acceptable overhead multipliers.

Yes of course old chap. I think you need to ask schuyler that question.

The bosses/owners aren't "making 5 times as much off of you"... They're charging (more like 3-3.5) times as much as they pay you to perform the work. Of that, comes the worker's salary, health benefit, and any other benefits, plus the cost of doing business (rent, licensing, business insurance, marketing, technology, etc.) At the end of the day, the company is making somewhere around 20-70% of the worker's base salary in profit. That isn't anywhere near "making five times as much off of you." You don't work for free, why should the company's owners?

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
a reply to: schuyler

It's a business standard, are you not familiar with this model?

Please tell me you're familiar with overhead costs and acceptable overhead multipliers.

Yes of course old chap. I think you need to ask schuyler that question.

And I think you need to show that you even know what you are talking about. So far there is no evidence that you do.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

You are speaking truth, The Tory party have a long history and a recent one of attacking the working class and the poorest in society, sadly though NEW LABOUR, not old Labour have taken there place as the right of center party.
Now with the right of center now occupied by NEW LABOUR were did the tory eton elite driven right wing hooray harry's that run the Tory Party ,....(note a division here the Conservatives are the majority of good little chaps who do the Tory's work but end up being ruled by the Tory's at the end of the day)...., have to go, well they can then only go even further right wing.

The problem with British politics is that it is like a sport, no matter who get's hurt they want there team to win and damn everyone else, now this is not only a british problem but a growing problem in the west, we came from the moral and ethical base of a Christian society that knew it never lived up to the social ideal's of christianity, that knew christ told them that the likes of the Tory's are going streight to hell but at least had hat ideal to live up to.

Now we live in a growingly atheistic society, secularism is also on the rise and the destruction of the work of good but Christian men in politic's is taking a growing rate of pace.

Let's see what the Tory's have done since they came to power.

Hide the true unemployment statistics and cut benefit's for the sick, claim they care about the vulnerable and the disabled while shutting down remploy and leaving children who need attendance with no funding, from statistical analysis Lain duncan smith's so called Reforms and lets get it right they are not reforms they are 'Counter reforms' cost at least 32 lives a week as people left desperate with no were to turn took there own lives, suffered stress related heart attacks and in some cases even starved to death in there own homes when faces with the prospect of being forced to go to a charity run Food bank and beg for food in a country that is one of the richest in the world and once bosted one of the most progressive society's.

David Cameron who hypocritically goes into a church and claim's to be a christian despite even the bishops calling his policy's anti christian, who has caused untold suffering to the poorest in british society and who takes his orders not from the british public but from the heirarchy and especially his boss at the non elected CBI also endlessly keep's spouting on about there being too many elderly and not enough young while driving the wages of the majority down in real terms and making the richest wealthier during his unholy term of office.

Were do I stop.

Over the past 30 years the Tory's in there interludes in power have set the stage for the destruction of the welfare state.

First under thatcher they attacked Wages by removing the index link between inflation and wage rise by abolishing the legal requirement for company's to give pay rises to there work force in line with inflation, this led to wages losing value in real terms over this period.
They did not touch the benefit's though they froze them on more than one occasion under thatcher as they knew it was a time bomb they had planted like a mine on the hull of a ship to try to sink labour, this was because benefits still index linked to inflation went up in value while wages dropped in value, no brainer what were they working at?.

Removed subsidies from british industry finalizing it's collapse and migration away from britain.

Sold off the public work's leaving us at the mercy of private contractors whose only ethos is profit, utility firms raising bill's above inflation to a point were it is heat or eat.
Remember the water, I used to be able to safely get a glass of tap water, it was sweet, clean and well ordered, no I have to buy a water filter just to get a clean glass of water as most of the water treatment plants were deemed unprofitable.

Tory's, sell the family silver and pocket the money for themselves, Thieving, Embezzling scumbags, of course so are new labour and I am sorely disapointed with milliband as most labour votors wanted him to make a deal with Sturgeon since she seems more labour than the likes of him.

New Labour came onto the scene defiling Labours legacy and corrupting the purpose of the party into a second public school boy run extension of the CBI and now even they did not dictate to the CBI but instead took there orders in part from them behind the scenes cash for honours etc.

In short they British public have been lied too, decieved and abused by these scum in both major party's, sadly I wish that we had more Scot's as they are the only one's who seem to realize just how corrupt westminster really is.

I am voiting green, they don't have a chance in hell but there moral's and belief's are mostly correct.

Hypocrit's, the Tory's get there backing from wealth and ultra wealthy CBI members and both Nation and international private interests, there is absolutley no democracy in there funding process.

Labour get's most of it's funding from the TUC and yet they allow the TUC to be attacked again and again with no reply even siding with those that are attacking there own funding?? something is very wrong there as the TUC is really the only democratic proportional institution in the UK governed on the vote's of it's members for all it's flaws and scandals'.

Bring back guy faulks at least he had the right idea.

a reply to: schuyler

We do not need to quote source pal we lived through it and remember, we were there and we are not as thick as the Tory party want's us to be, as god is my judge something is going to break in this country the way they are going on.

originally posted by: LABTECH767


Let's see what the Tory's have done since they came to power.

Hmmmn .... Wasn't it Liam Burn? an out going labour minister who

left the note for the incoming conservative party stating "sorry there's no

money left." Can't do a lot with an empty wallet!!?

Remember the water, I used to be able to safely get a glass of tap water.

Yes ... I still drink my water straight from the tap, I think I must have saved

a fortune over the years not buying bottled water. It can be costly being

pretentious.

Tory's, sell the family silver and pocket the money for themselves, Thieving, Embezzling scumbags.

Remind me who it was who sold the country's gold, when it was at it all time

lowest price?


The majority (even if it is only a small majority) vote in the government,

therefor *more people* want or agree with the policies of the returned

party ..... democracy?

Brings to mind the saying *You cant please all of the people all of the time*

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

What makes Camerons response worse is knowing that when we apply for credit our signature creates the money we are signing for, therefore, government can create all the money necessary for government to pay for all the goods and services it need to, or should, provide, just by signing a document authoring the bringing into existence of the money.

Research how money gets created.

a reply to: eletheia

I will answer you, no I am not being pretentious but your attempt to pull me down is foolish, the drinking water is not potable too pre privatization level's of purity in many areas of the country now, I myself was educated by a former biochemist now retired who had turned down several extremely well paying positions with large pharma, specifically american company's who were head hunting and some of the tests he carried out which you would likely not find in a report would shock you I am certain, he was also a full member of greenpeace and performed analysis on there behalf on several sample's from around the world relating to other matter's and held a triple doctorate and Phd, believe me this guy could talk the so called expert's hired by the large company's under the table any time and point out there error's and research flaw's as well as there overly selective sampling, if you knew the crap that is in the water these day's you would think twice about not buying a water filter however it does vary from region to region and I do not use bottled water.

As for the gold, we all know that Brown was dodgy, incompetant and perhaps even corrupt but how are the tory's who are making themselves richer while harming the poor in any way whatsoever any better, in fact they are more obviously corrupt and out of touch,.

Brown sold the Gold at an extensive loss and at far below value to cover for a hole in his previous departments budget which was over 200 million overbudget, I have seen the excess and corruption of both Tory and Labour councilors in Lancashire for instance and one example is the council executives taking a weekly trip to a spa in london - massage and relaxation with expensive meal's all off the books but at the council payers expense (tory council at the time) to spend friday night through to sunday morning at that spa fully paid with a flight there and back and though this was just prior to the credit cruch it make me think of there corruption while our people are at food bank's for god sake, indeed I pointed out how NEW LABOUR is not labour (Betrayed and Hijacked by public school boy's and fat cat's) so don't try to shift the blame onto Labour, New Labour are just a bunch of shirt swapping Tory's out for there own vested interests just like there Tory peer's and that is the simple truth.

Have you heard Milliband about the SNP.

And as for the SNP, well it is a fact that they are more Labour than Labour except for that one sticking point of breaking the country apart, Labour used to be about standing together and being strong through a brotherhood of working and lower middle class voter's as we are stronger standing together as one house (a cord of three strand's is not easily broken to quote the bible) but sadly for better or for worse the SNP want to break the back of the great ship Britannia to divide a house that will then be weaker not stronger and except/but for that Ice Berg in the water I would vote for them myself given the chance (I actually hope they get a landslide and can force Milliband to there fair and honest point) - Why well they are true labour in everything but Name except on this one idiological but long cherished point and that make's them sadly really only for half the country when all else is said and done (better for half the country though than for only themselves and there financial backers like the westminster lout's).

Still the SNP are one hell of a lot less hypocritical than that bunch of liars in there pretentious gentlemens club in whitehall and I like Nicola Sturgeon, I have no doubt if they ditched the independance point and reintegrated with northern labour she would or at least could become leader of the national True Labour party if the corrupt current heirarchy can be kicked out and sent back to the tory's were they belong.

By which point due to his statement I am afraid win or lose Milliband is going to be out of the leadership of the Labour party a lot sooner than he think's as the bulk of Labour votor's now see his other side and actually see with envy the True labour attitude of the SNP constrasted against the hypocritical attitude of the New Labour set though I believe he is definitely to become the next prime minister and at least he is better than the Tory's but by a hair's breadth.

As for slavery in the modern world, have you thought about zero hours contract's and the way they bypass employment law almost entirely, the Tory's have championed Zero hours contracts.
Then there is the scandal of over one million people sanctioned from benefits and removed from the unemployement statistics which is both fraudulent on the Tory's part (basically lying to the electorate on an extremely serious issue) and also downright Evil.
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