Bali nine duo executed by firing squad

originally posted by: Kryties
In clear contravention of international law

No it is not - no matter how much you whine about it it is not in contravention of any "international law", anyway they have been executed, You claiming it is a fact does not make it one.

originally posted by: hellobruce

No it is not - no matter how much you whine about it it is not in contravention of any "international law", as they have been executed, You claiming it is a fact does not make it one.

Wow, so the act of executing them means the law doesn't exist or is invalid?

LOLOLOL. You really have sunk to an all time low!

I suppose, according to your twisted rationale, Ivan Milat is innocent of murdering backpackers because "he did it" despite the laws huh?

I suppose Jeffery Dahmer, according to your twisted rationale, is also innocent because he cannabalised all those people despite the laws huh?

Apparently, in your delusional and ignorant world, a law is invalid or doesn't exist because people commit the crime - therefore how can the law exist if the person (or in this case country) did it.

Congratulations on making absolutely NO SENSE WHATSOEVER!!

EDIT TO ADD: Don't think your little sneaky edit has gone unnoticed - you made a mistake now you're backtracking and trying to cover it up.

originally posted by: Kryties
Wow, so the act of executing them means the law doesn't exist or is invalid?

You are just babbling now, you really should not take the execution of 2 scumbag drug dealers so personally.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Kryties
Wow, so the act of executing them means the law doesn't exist or is invalid?

You are just babbling now, you really should not take the execution of 2 scumbag drug dealers so personally.

Wow, you edited your post and now are acting as if the edited version is what I was replying to?

That's really low mate. Poor form, really poor form. A good indicator of deliberate trolling if you ask me.

How exactly am I "babbling"? You are the one who made the claim (in the unedited version quoted in my above post) that the fact they were executed means the law can't or doesn't exist. You were also the one who sneakily edited your post, hoping nobody would notice, and then accused me of "babbling". You are deliberately trolling because you don't have anything intelligent to say so you want to derail the thread by twisting others words and deflecting the topic of conversation.

originally posted by: Kryties
How exactly am I "babbling"?

Claiming "international law" states the execution of these 2 scumbags was illegal, you seem to think as they were Australians somehow it makes them different to all the other drug smugglers executed around the world, and you are unable to show where the President has to look at every case for clemency.

You seem very personally upset 2 scumbag Australian drug dealers have been executed, even though you never knew them and the world is a better place now.

originally posted by: hellobruce

Claiming "international law" states the execution of these 2 scumbags was illegal,

Because it does state that, in very clear English - despite your ignorant ranting that it does not.

you seem to think as they were Australians somehow it makes them different to all the other drug smugglers executed around the world,

I never said anything of the sort - there you go again twisting words and deflecting like you have been for days now.

You seem very personally upset 2 scumbag Australian drug dealers have been executed, even though you never knew them and the world is a better place now.

I am disgusted that barbaric, backward, ignorant, deceptive, lying scumbags like certain people in this thread still exist in this modern age - I thought we had moved beyond that sort of bloodthirsty and evil hypocrisy.

originally posted by: Kryties
I am disgusted that barbaric, backward, ignorant, deceptive, lying scumbags

Do not worry, the 2 have been executed legally according to Indonesian law.

Funny how you perfectly describe the 2 Australians executed!

This issue was considered in 2007 by the Indonesian Constitutional Court in a challenge to the law permitting the imposition of the death penalty for drug trafficking. A majority of the Court found that the law was not inconsistent with the right to life under the Indonesian Constitution, and, employing reasoning that was flawed and misconstrued international law, found that drug trafficking offences could be viewed as among the “most serious crimes” for which the death penalty could be imposed.

So drug smuggling in Indonesia is a "most serious crime" and deserves the death penalty.
www.ahrcentre.org...

a reply to: hellobruce

OK, this will be my last post to you. I will not get into the spiral of "yes they did" "no they didn't" that you are clearly trying to drag this thread into. Thank you for proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that supporters of the barbaric death penalty will go to ANY lengths, including lying, deceiving, twisting words, deflecting and general trolling, in order to try to win their argument.

Thank you also for proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I am right in pursuing this just cause, that two rehabilitated men were illegally executed before all their appeals were heard.

I shall be continuing to post here, but I shall be completely ignoring anything certain posters have to say - regardless of how much they whinge and moan and claim they have "won" because I refuse to be trolled by them any further.

originally posted by: Kryties
will go to ANY lengths, including lying, deceiving, twisting words, deflecting and general trolling, in order to try to win their argument.

Funny, just like you that is exactly what the 2 executed scumbags did whilst in jail, trying to get out of their legal death sentence!

that two rehabilitated men were illegally executed before all their appeals were heard.

As has been shown, they claimed to be rehabilitated to try and avoid the legal death sentence just like their lawyer told them to do, and all their valid appeals had been heard.

regardless of how much they whinge and moan and claim they have "won"

There you go again, talking about yourself, as that is exactly what you are doing here!

From: www.smh.com.au...

Bali 9 executions: Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran's bodies arrive in Australia

The families of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran arrived back at a suitably sombre and overcast Sydney Airport shortly after 6am on Saturday morning. The coffins of the two men executed on Wednesday were also understood to be on the flight but were unseen.

Qantas Flight 42, carrying their coffins from Jakarta, landed in Sydney just before dawn, at 6:13am. On board the plane were Chan's wife, Febyanti Herewila, and Sukumaran's parents and siblings, accompanied by Australian officials.

After any other marriage the newlyweds in the first week would be ensconced on their honeymoon. Instead Herewila now faces the task of arranging her husband's funeral.

The small group was saved the indignity of walking through the public arrivals hall. Instead they were escorted to three waiting white limousines, believed to be arranged by consular officials.

Herewila got into the third vehicle but, looking tired and withdrawn, declined to make any comment to waiting media.

The Sukumaran families got into the two other vehicles, also without making any comment.

Chan's mother Helen and brother Michael had returned to Sydney on Friday.

The importation of bodies comes under quarantine rules and it is understood that the certification process at both ends would have been overseen by a funeral director. But with a significant media presence awaiting the arrival, with camera crews keen for the first sight of the returned coffins, the procedure was carried out as discreetly as possible.

A spokeswoman for Sydney Airport said that the families had requested that their privacy be respected. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade declined to make any comment.

The flight was the last leg in a long journey for the bodies of the Bali nine drug smugglers after they and six other prisoners were killed by firing squad at 12:35am local time on Wednesday on Nusakambangan Island.

The bodies were loaded into ambulances, taken by ferry to the Cilacap port on the mainland and then driven in a police convoy for more than 10 hours to the Indonesian capital, Jakarta. The pair's mothers, Mrs Chan and Raji Sukumaran, were supported by their children as they followed the procession.

In Jakarta, the coffins were placed in white boxes, draped in silk, with bouquets of white roses on top, and driven to the airport.

The arrival of the bodies comes hours after the Australian Catholic University announced it would create two scholarships named after Chan and Sukumaran for Indonesian students to study in Australia.

From: smh.com.au...

Myuran Sukumaran could have fled Indonesia but chose to try to save others

Myuran Sukumaran was tipped off about the arrest of the four Bali nine mules and could have fled the country, but chose to return to a hotel where fellow Bali nine members were waiting in an attempt to save the two men.

According to information never revealed previously, the third in command of the Bali nine, Tan Duc Thanh Nguyen, has recalled "the greatest and most special moment that I will always remember about Myu is something no one will know".

He says Sukumaran, executed last week by an Indonesian firing squad, acted selflessly to save fellow drug smugglers Si Yi Chen and Matthew Norman.

"I wanna share something with all of you. In memory of Myu," Nguyen wrote in a message that was shared on Facebook.

His fondest memory, said Nyguyen, was not something Sukumaran did in jail, or his art.

"[It was] the fact that he cared and worried about the rest. Calm and collected. This is what I will always remember about him," Nguyen wrote.

"Myu could of panicked and left the country."

The revelation comes as the Australian Federal Police, which has been widely criticised for tipping off Indonesian police with information leading to the arrests in Bali and knowingly exposing the Bali nine to the death penalty, will hold a press conference on Monday.

Commissioner Andrew Colvin, Deputy Commissioner Mike Phelan and Deputy Commissioner Leanne Close will discuss the AFP's work during the Bali nine investigation.

They will also discuss the AFP's guidelines in relation to death penalty matters in 2005 and the procedures the organisation operates under today.

Nguyen told Fairfax Media he and Sukumaran were at Bluefin, a Japanese fusion restaurant in Kuta, the day of their arrest on April 17, 2005.

Sukumaran was tipped off about the arrests of Martin Stephens, Renae Lawrence, Scott Rush and Michael Czugaj, the couriers for the Bali nine syndicate who were apprehended at Bali's Ngurah Rai International Airport with heroin strapped to their bodies.

"There is a reason why code system are used. To alert if something goes wrong and flee the country," Nguyen wrote.

"Myu didn't pack up and left the country. No. He went back to the hotel where the other two were waiting. Moved them somewhere else, and telling them the most important thing at the moment was getting them out of the country safely. Calming them down and be aware [sic] what's happening."

Of all the Bali nine, Sukumaran had the best chance of escaping after their operation had been compromised.

He had been under surveillance by the Indonesian authorities but they did not know his name. He was known only to Indonesian police as "the black one" or "the negro".

I Nyoman Gatra, an Indonesian police intelligence officer who led a surveillance operation after the tip-off from the AFP, told the Denpasar District Court in 2005 that Sukumaran had not been listed on an AFP alert letter sent on April 8 about a week before the Bali nine were arrested.

"At first I thought he was a bodyguard," he said at the time.

Sukumaran, Nguyen, Chen and Norman were arrested the night of May 17, 2005, at the Melasti Beach Bungalows in Bali.

Sukumaran wasn't actually in the room at the Melasti when it was raided by police, as has been previously reported. He was outside standing guard and was pushed into the room when the police stormed the hotel.

Police discovered rucksacks containing 334 grams of heroin and a bag of pepper, to put sniffer dogs off the scent.

Andrew Chan was arrested the same day on an Australian Airlines flight about to depart for Australia. He had no drugs in his possession but several mobile phones.

Sukumaran and Chan were executed at 12.25am on April 29.

Nguyen, who is serving life imprisonment in a jail in Malang, East Java, told Fairfax Media that after he wrote about what had happened he felt so much better.

"I can finally let go now."

originally posted by: Kryties
The revelation comes as the Australian Federal Police, which has been widely criticised for tipping off Indonesian police with information leading to the arrests in Bali and knowingly exposing the Bali nine to the death penalty, will hold a press conference on Monday.

More crap from you, the AFP have been praised for stopping 8kg of drugs arriving in Australia.

Sukumaran was tipped off about the arrests of Martin Stephens, Renae Lawrence, Scott Rush and Michael Czugaj, the couriers for the Bali nine syndicate ........

"Myu didn't pack up and left the country. No. He went back to the hotel where the other two were waiting. Moved them somewhere else,

The reason he did that is he was afraid they would go home without the drugs on them - he was there to ensure they strapped them to their bodies and took them to Australia! As we can clearly see, he was a stand over man till the end.

Some people are trying to make out these 2 drug dealer scumbags were some kind of heros, but Australians will not fall for that nonsense. Remember, the world is now a better place after they were executed.

From: smh.com.au...

Bali nine executions: nine questions the AFP must answer about its role

On Monday, AFP Commissioner Andrew Colvin, Deputy Commissioner Mike Phelan and Deputy Commissioner Leanne Close will host a press conference to discuss the role it played in the arrest of the Bali nine. The AFP has declined to discuss the matter in detail until now, on the grounds that it could have jeopardised efforts to secure clemency for the ringleaders Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, who were executed by firing squad last week. Here are nine questions the AFP must answer about its actions.

1. Does it believe tipping off the Indonesian police about the Bali nine's plan, in the knowledge that the information could lead to them facing the death penalty, was the right thing to do?

A 2006 review by Federal Court Judge Paul Finn found that the AFP had acted lawfully in telling Indonesian police about the Bali nine's plans but, given its information contributed to the group being charged with crimes punishable by death, was the AFP's action morally justified?

2. Why did the AFP tip off the Indonesian police to arrest the group in Bali, instead of arresting them on their return to Australia?

The heroin smuggled by the group was destined for Australia. Australia was where the harm of the drugs would be felt. By arresting them on their return, the AFP would have eliminated the risk of the smugglers being put to death.

3. Could allowing the group to return to Australia have enabled the AFP to identify the leaders of the drug ring?

Ten years after the Bali Nine smuggling operation, none of the masterminds of the operation has been prosecuted. Had the AFP waited for the smugglers to return, they may have led police to their leaders.

4. To what extent was the AFP's approach to the Bali nine case influenced by a desire to promote Indonesian police co-operation on other issues, such as counter-terrorism?

Did the AFP sacrifice the Australian drug smugglers to win the co-operation of its Indonesian colleagues for its work in other areas?

5. Has the AFP provided information in any other cases since 2005 that could have led to other people facing the death penalty?

It was not until 2009 that the AFP's operational guidelines on co-operation with countries that impose the death penalty were updated by the Rudd government in an effort to prevent a repeat of the Bali nine case.

6. Is there anything in current AFP protocols that would prevent this from happening again?

Legal experts have suggested the current guidelines would not have prevented the AFP from tipping off Indonesian authorities about the Bali nine, because they do not contain any presumption against it co-operating with overseas authorities on cases where the death penalty could be applied.

7. If the AFP faced the same set of circumstances today, would it act any differently?

The AFP has denied any wrongdoing. Would it do it all again?

8. Would the AFP benefit from stronger guidance on co-operation with overseas law enforcement services in cases in which the death penalty could be applied?

The Law Council of Australia has said the AFP's current guidelines give it broad discretion to provide assistance to overseas counterparts, even when doing so may ultimately result in the imposition of the death penalty. Would stronger guidance make the AFP's obligations clearer and make it easier for it to refuse inappropriate requests?

9. Why shouldn't the AFP be prohibited from sharing information with an overseas law enforcement agency that could lead to prosecution for an offence carrying the death penalty?

Independent MPs Clive Palmer and Cathy McGowan have proposed legislation that would make it a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment for a public official to disclose information in circumstances that may lead to the imposition of the death penalty.

originally posted by: Kryties
Bali nine executions: nine questions the AFP must answer about its role

The drug dealer supporters are getting desperate, trying to blame the AFP, or anybody else they can for the capture of the Bali 9, instead of blaming those responsible, the unrepentant drug smugglers. Funny how the drug dealer supporters refuse to put any blame at all on the drug smugglers!

From: www.theguardian.com...

Australian federal police to break silence over role in Bali Nine executions

The Australian federal police (AFP) leadership team will break their silence on Monday over the force’s role in the Bali Nine’s arrest in Indonesia.

The AFP commissioner, Andrew Colvin, and deputy commissioners Mike Phelan and Leanne Close will face the media in Canberra to discuss the organisation’s work on the investigation, which led to the execution of Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran last week.

The Labor leader, Bill Shorten, told reporters on Sunday his party’s focus would be on pushing more firmly for an end to the death penalty in all countries.

Pressure has been mounting on the AFP to explain its role in tipping off Indonesia about the Bali Nine drug-smuggling operation in 2005.

Colvin will also discuss the AFP’s guidelines in relation to matters subject to the death penalty as they stood in 2005 and now.

The federal government has said police are still taking the death penalty into account before tipping off foreign agencies about suspected Australian criminals, in line with guidelines Labor issued in 2009.

Shorten said the AFP should be allowed to offer an explanation without speculation in advance.

“I’m not going to start second-guessing the AFP, we’ll wait and see what they have to say,” he said in Melbourne. “It has barely been a few days since those dreadful executions took place and again, my first thoughts are with the families and friends, and the people who worked so hard to keep these two young men alive.

“Labor stands opposed to the death penalty, wherever it occurs, and we are certainly determined to do more in the future to use Australia’s diplomatic capital and our capacity in the world to help persuade all the nations that use the death penalty to reconsider that.

“This was a futile death of two men who had rehabilitated themselves by all accounts. It achieved nothing, and I think if we are to be fair dinkum in the future, we need to talk not just to Indonesia, but we need to talk about opposing the death penalty internationally.”

The social services minister, Scott Morrison, told the Bolt Report’s Andrew Bolt the relationship with Indonesia had been strained by the executions, but was still fundamentally strong.

“I think we need to move through this issue,” he said. “It won’t be business as usual for some time and we understand how we all feel about this.

“But the engagement under the surface which keeps the wheels turning in these relationships, I have no doubt is going to continue to turn.”

originally posted by: Kryties
“This was a futile death of two men who had rehabilitated themselves by all accounts. It achieved nothing,

It was their choice to smuggle drugs in a country where the penalty for that is death, they had not rehabilitated themselves, it was just a act to try and get out of the death penalty, and the Indonesians saw it was just a act. It achieved that these 2 scumbags will not be smuggling any more drugs, or arranging the smuggling of more drugs.

From: newmatilda.com...

Executing Drug Dealers: Why Stop With The Bali Nine?

Earlier this morning two Australians were shot dead because they were convicted of drug trafficking. They broke Indonesian law. They suffered the consequences.

Australia outlawed the death penalty in 1967. Yet when a recent poll of Australians was conducted by radio-station Triple J, a large percentage of citizens supported this execution on foreign soil.

The pro-execution argument normally sounds something like this: “Well they knew it was illegal and they did it anyway and this is the punishment. They get no sympathy from me.”

You’ve probably heard a family member, friend or co-worker say something similar in regards to this story.

However, if some Australians truly believe that drug dealing, due to its damage to public health, is in any circumstances worthy of execution, then why does our lack of sympathy end with the Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran?

If these two deserved to die, then there is a long list of other drug traffickers, who, in the interest of fairness, should face the same fate. If we support the execution of small-time dealers like The Bali 9, then why not go after those truly crippling our society with drugs?

Lets begin with Australia’s alcohol barons. Alcohol kills 15 Australians and hospitalises another 430 EVERY day. According to the 2014 Vichealth and Foundation for Alcohol Research and Education’s Alcohol’s Burden Of Disease In Australia report “the number of alcohol-attributed hospitalisations and deaths has increased by 62 per cent since the study was last undertaken a decade ago”. Alcohol is clearly a very dangerous drug. The people who make it are drug manufacturers. The people who sell it are drug dealers. Its legality makes it no less lethal.

Those dealing alcohol are making a killing too; the Australian booze industry is worth $10 billion a year. They sell the drug, we consume it, it causes disease and death and addiction and violence. As well as, like all recreational drugs, some good times too. Yet there are no consequences for these drug dealers whatsoever. Our laws encourage them to flourish. We refer to these dealers as ‘CEOs’ and celebrate them as ‘business leaders’. For some reason we do not see them as responsible for the horror their drug causes.

If you want to make an example of those who seek to profit from other people’s weakness and addiction, then surely alcohol dealers should be first against the wall (or the injection-table if you think that’s more humane).

Alcohol is killing more Australians than terrorism and domestic violence and road fatalities and heroin overdoses combined. It’s the worst drug, it’s just that the majority of people in our society happen to like it.

If Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran deserved to die last night, where does that leave your local chemists, doctors and pharmacists? The substances they sell us, we assume with the best intentions, still lead to over 300 deaths per year. The number of fatalities caused by prescription drugs is staggering when you consider that, on average, coc aine causes less than 30 deaths in Australia per year.

Is the difference here intention? Do we assume doctors don’t mean to kill people while coc aine dealers do? Consider this; the current street value of coc aine in Australia is approximately $300 per gram. Why would a professional supplier want that business relationship to end? Furthermore, if, as a coc aine dealer, your product causes deaths, the likelihood of you being investigated by police increases. Those are two very powerful motivations for a dealer to want his customers to live.

What consequence do doctors face when something goes wrong with medication? In the most famous recent case of malpractice, Michael Jackson’s doctor, Conrad Murray, was convicted of killing his client ‘by administering a lethal dose of an anesthetic drug’. His punishment was two years served in jail.

There is a similarity between the causes of death attributed to both legal and illicit drugs; the issue is rarely the quality of the substance, but the dosage the user self-administers. Logically this should place both legal and illegal dealers at the same level of responsibility; they each sell their customer a substance that could kill them if inappropriate amounts are ingested. A person who has one too many lines of coc aine might induce a heart-attack, but a person who has one too many sleeping pills may never wake up. The implied contract here is: I’ll sell you the drug and tell you how much to take. Whatever happens after that is your responsibility.

Yet in the eyes of Australian law (and apparently the Australian public), a very different pattern emerges.

I sell you alcohol and you become an alcoholic; consumer is at fault and dealer is not responsible.

I sell you tobacco and you die from lung cancer; consumer is at fault and dealer is not responsible.

I sell you anti-depressants on which you overdose; consumer is at fault and dealer is not responsible.

I sell you an illegal drug; dealer is considered to be morally responsible for all resulting ill-effects on user/society and therefore can face jail or, if on foreign soil, the death penalty.

This is the justification as to why Andrew and Myuran Sukumaran were shot yesterday; because they were causing harm to a community by trafficking potentially dangerous substances.

It doesn’t matter that no one actually died from using their heroin as it was never sold or consumed - they were killed on principle. And apparently many of us feel the punishment they received, death by firing squad, fits the crime they committed. No sympathy.

Those making billions selling us alcohol, nicotine and Valium however can sleep easy at night. On very expensive mattresses. Because we like those drugs, and we just might be addicted.

originally posted by: Kryties
It doesn’t matter that no one actually died from using their heroin as it was never sold or consumed

Of course you ignore the heroin that had smuggled on previous trips, and the people who died and lives ruined from it - obviously, as you support drug smugglers.

From: dailytelegraph.com.au...

AS Bali’s notorious Kerobokan prison exploded in chaos back in 2012, rioting prisoners came to Andrew Chan and offered him a chance to “escape now and be free”.

He didn’t want to take it.

It was just after 11pm on February 21 when violent riots broke out at the desperately overcrowded prison. Staff quickly abandoned the facility as prisoners rose in rebellion, pelting them with stones and setting fire to sections of the jail.

By sunrise, Indonesian riot police had stormed Kerobokan and quelled the uprising.

But for five long hours, the prisoners were in charge of the prison.

While confusion reigned about him, Bali Nine drug smuggler Chan was on the mobile phone he kept secreted away in his cell, talking to his then Aussie fiance, Leonie Smyth.

“We were together when the riots were going, you could hear bullets and we were sure people we’re gonna die,” Smyth said from her home in North Bendigo.

“The people who were doing the riots came to Andrew and said, ‘We have your keys, you can escape’.

“He knew he could, but the punishment on any foreigners left behind would be so much, he wouldn’t go.

“He had a few chances to escape but he didn’t want to make life harder on remaining foreigners.”

originally posted by: Kryties
“He had a few chances to escape but he didn’t want to make life harder on remaining foreigners.”

More rubbish, he knew he would not get far. It is sickening how you are trying to make out a convicted admitted drug dealer was some sort of "hero", but remember, the world is now a better place!