Misunderstood Sleep Paralysis And Astral Projection

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: TheJourney
Commentary:
There are those who can project, and those who cannot, and still those who don't believe its possible.

Has anyone floated to the corner of the room and looked down at their body lying there with eyes closed? I have.

Has anyone ever sat in a chair in a different room of the house and "saw" and told the occupants in another room what they were doing, saying, whispering, moving, what chair, what positions etc? I have.

Has anyone projected to any place or location either past, present or forward in time, checked that info obtained, and found every single bit of it was true? I have.

Everyone understands the governments of the world have spent millions on "remote viewing"-which is easily akin to astrally "projecting" to a certain place or places in time, rt? They do this because it works. It took many years, and much proven evidence to them to find value in the process...and they continue.

In Conclusion: I follow these threads because I have always been whats loosly referred to as a "leaper"-one who with little effort goes into a meditative place, picks a destination, and "travels" there. And one can return with "evidence" of what was there, seen, done, places, colors, people, situations...through a variety of methods-each quite different from what works for the next guy, and can be ascertained as not only probable...but definitely possible.

I dont discuss Astral Projection much here because of the doubters, but then again...I dont have to. Its a gift. From God? The cosmos? The devil? The Sub-concious mind? I dont know. But it is a reality. I have assisted more than several ATS members here privately in their quests...I can only advise, not teach.

Each person finds their own way. And to go "on-forum" and attempt to prove things to the nay-sayers here...is pointless. It is something possible for some, tried by many, learned by a few, and dismissed by others.

Astral projection...even picking destinations and people passed on to visit...is more that possible. It is a reality in visiting another reality. But not one for all, because not all will accept it, try it or be successful in doing it.

Then again...not everyone has to.....Blessings All....Mysterioustranger

Finally someone with some fantastic claims. Would you mind being tested on any of these?

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: In4ormant

Ever wonder how they come up with this stuff?

"I'm more than my body and its functions"
---Ok, then why can't we capture this " thing" you are after the body dies?

"Because it isn't physical and can't be contained" ....

Yesteryear scientific discovery has ALREADY said that what makes up physical matter is 99.99999999999999999 nothing. Which means ZERO as fast as we're concerned. So then, in light of these discoveries, how then is it difficult to understand that whatever you 'contain' physically...is actually NOTHING at all?

OK, you bring back any information or insight from this place or is it just a really pretty place with no discernable purpose?

You want to grab a board and ride a few waves or You want to sit on the beach and talk about the surf? Why don't you try it and tell us what YOU think about the experience? You're not truly a skeptic unless you know what you're being skeptic about.

Well the wise decision would be to sit on the beach and talk about it until i know more about this. Why are you avoiding all of my questions? What can you do in the astral plain? What is the benefit of going there?

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: In4ormant

Since we are going into the nature of reality argument here let me clarify for you. NO, I can't prove my reality exists anymore than you can yours. What I can do is devise a way to test my beliefs that others can then observe and can reproduce on their own that will produce similar results and show a common experience.

That's perfect advice. In fact, there are many tens of thousands of people who astral project and meet to compare notes of their experience with others who have also observed, and reproduced on their own with similar results and show a common experience. Otherwise, you have no common experience to share.

I'm asking 2 people who state they share a common experience within this astral reality to share information and let us observe the results. You continue to spout new age nonsense because you know it can't be done.

I find it hard to believe that out of all the testimonials you've read about the subject, there isn't a similarity to be found. Alas, It's hard to get into a real discussion about the subject with someone who isn't aware of the experience nor willing to get out of their cave to try it for themselves. All of this debate simply is not necessary. And instead of painting astral projectors as people unwilling to answer questions, by asking them to proof something not even YOU can do with in terms of describing and substantiating reality. When 99.999999 percent of it is nothingness to begin with.

Where is the due diligence here? Or is this site 99% armchair skeptics and 1 percent people with experience in the subject matters their discussing?

Are you trying to use quantum mech to hide the fact that you can't answer the questions that are being asked?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I'm starting to wonder if he can read. Have I not requested his assistance repeatedly? My posts are going through right?

a reply to: TheJourney

You had a lucid dream (exploring the subconscious). Astral projection is different (projecting within the subconscious). Both are always happening in the mind and there is no actual location to project to. Btw, as someone who has astral projected -- it is overrated and romanticized too much by new agers. Unless there is something to gain from the experience (insight attained towards certain matters concerning yourself that can be applied) you are nothing more than being a marco polo of the astral realm.

The world outside my window is far more interesting.

I have found that you can create any perception you would like. All you have to do is focus your mind on the perception you want, sight, sound, feeling, whatever. Essentially imagine it in a focused way. If you do this, you will create the actual perception of it.

Waking reality (the real world) operates in the same manner, but only in *hindsight*.

Lucid dreams are a psychological function of the brain involving the mind. Lucid dreams occur more commonly with all of us than most people realize. Most people awakening from a dream are aware of the fact they were dreaming and will remember vaguely or in detail parts of the dream, but in a rush to get on with their day, they forget that they were actually lucid dreaming; therefore it becomes in their awareness just an ordinary dream.

Here's an easy way to consciously train your mind to (remember that you are having) lucid dreams: When you awaken from a dream and faintly remember you were dreaming, allow yourself to fall back asleep with that awareness. Start there.

Astral projection experiences, which is not the same as lucid dreaming, should never be shared publicly because the experience was always meant to be personal. I do get a kick out of new agers fantastic stories that are polluting the internet. It's akin to a kid not knowing Santa Clause is not real but believes everyone else is buying into his story of having dinner with Santa at the kitchen table.

Again, the world outside my window is far more interesting because it is constantly there....to be experienced and played with...

I have found that you can create any perception you would like. All you have to do is focus your mind on the perception you want, sight, sound, feeling, whatever. Essentially imagine it in a focused way. If you do this, you will create the actual perception of it.

If you usually sleep eight hours; set your alarm to wake up around 5 hours; then give yourself the command to carry yourself back into the dream more aware. Keep doing that an you will develop the ability to lucid dream at will.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Oh sure, as if he is the first source of anecdotal evidence to be asked to be tested. You really are ignorant of the long history of parapsychology, aren't you.

But why bother looking. After all, if there was anything to it, your friendly neighborhood debunker would tell you, right?

"I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven" - Richard Wiseman

Guess you missed the memo.

But go ahead, move the goalposts. Squirm out from under the evidence like the weasels you are. Doesn't matter to us. We know the truth.

👣

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: Woodcarver

Oh sure, as if he is the first source of anecdotal evidence to be asked to be tested. You really are ignorant of the long history of parapsychology, aren't you.

But why bother looking. After all, if there was anything to it, your friendly neighborhood debunker would tell you, right?

"I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven" - Richard Wiseman

Guess you missed the memo.

But go ahead, move the goalposts. Doesn't matter to us. We know the truth.

👣

No one is moving the goalposts, none of you will kick the ball even after repeated requests.

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: Woodcarver

Oh sure, as if he is the first source of anecdotal evidence to be asked to be tested. You really are ignorant of the long history of parapsychology, aren't you.

But why bother looking. After all, if there was anything to it, your friendly neighborhood debunker would tell you, right?

"I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven" - Richard Wiseman

Guess you missed the memo.

But go ahead, move the goalposts. Doesn't matter to us. We know the truth.

👣

Oh! Well, you didn't say that richard wiseman was into it. You should have started with that earlier and then i could have pointed out that laurence Krause says that it's bunk. And then we'd be back at the beginning earlier than this.

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: Woodcarver

Oh sure, as if he is the first source of anecdotal evidence to be asked to be tested. You really are ignorant of the long history of parapsychology, aren't you.

But why bother looking. After all, if there was anything to it, your friendly neighborhood debunker would tell you, right?

"I agree that by the standards of any other area of science that remote viewing is proven" - Richard Wiseman

Guess you missed the memo.

But go ahead, move the goalposts. Doesn't matter to us. We know the truth.

👣

What can you do in the astral realm?

a reply to: Woodcarver

I can do X.

"Well then claim the MDC"

Sorry, psi doesn't work that way. The MDC is a scam, designed to prey on ignorance of parapsychological effects.

"Says who?"

Says the large body of parapsychological evidence, which you would know about if you weren't too busy letting phony debunkers do your thinking for you.

👣

a reply to: Woodcarver

As someone who has been there: Extract information to be used here. But keep in mind that doesn't usually happen...to me.

ETA; I'm with you on this thread. I agree with your thought process and this is coming from a guy who has both astral projected and lucid dreamed. Those who do not understand the difference, more often than not, have never had those experiences they claim to have had...

a reply to: Woodcarver

You want me to prove it to myself that i can astral project? Why don't you prove to yourself that you can ride a unicorn.

First of all, one is possible to experience....the other is not. Unless you know something I don't. Alas, show me a method whereby you claim I can ride a unicorn and before I decide to debate about the possibility....I will try. This is the difference between you and I.

After all, don't you trust yourself to know wether something is real or not? You are very wise not to place your faith in others to determine for you what is valid and what isn't. At the same time, doesn't that mean you are siding with your OWN intelligence and abilities of discernment? If so, why wouldn't you put your abilities of discernment to the test? I was an exact carbon copy skeptic like you on the matter, so I went beyond that point and tried to experience it for myself. Now I now what the talk is all about. Meanwhile, you're on the side lines.

Do you know how difficult it is to explain the taste of an apple to a person born with no tongue or sense of smell? That's what you're asking astral projectors to do. To explain a realm of experience OUTSIDE of the one you're used to experiencing. You've admitted so. But when the question is turned around, and critics like you are asked to substantiate your very OWN physical reality....you can't. Not even scientists can do it. Why the double standard? Why are astral projectors expected to furnish proof, you yourself can not furnish to support your own belief in the reality of physicality?

a reply to: Woodcarver

He's never gonna answer that question, nor is Visitor gonna take me up on my request

originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: Woodcarver

You want me to prove it to myself that i can astral project? Why don't you prove to yourself that you can ride a unicorn.

First of all, one is possible to experience....the other is not. Unless you know something I don't. Alas, show me a method whereby you claim I can ride a unicorn and before I decide to debate about the possibility....I will try. This is the difference between you and I.

After all, don't you trust yourself to know wether something is real or not? You are very wise not to place your faith in others to determine for you what is valid and what isn't. At the same time, doesn't that mean you are siding with your OWN intelligence and abilities of discernment? If so, why wouldn't you put your abilities of discernment to the test? I was an exact carbon copy skeptic like you on the matter, so I went beyond that point and tried to experience it for myself. Now I now what the talk is all about. Meanwhile, you're on the side lines.

Do you know how difficult it is to explain the taste of an apple to a person born with no tongue or sense of smell? That's what you're asking astral projectors to do. To explain a realm of experience OUTSIDE of the one you're used to experiencing. You've admitted so. But when the question is turned around, and critics like you are asked to substantiate your very OWN physical reality....you can't. Not even scientists can do it. Why the double standard? Why are astral projectors expected to furnish proof, you yourself can not furnish to support your own belief in the reality of physicality?

I can prove that i'm a physical entity. I don't know of a single person who doesn't think that they are a physical body. Physical enough to slap the crap out of someone. That should be proof enough.

What we don't have proof for is the claim that any part of us can exist without the mind or outside of the body. That is where the lack of evidence is.

Oh well. I'm done for the night.
See ya posers!!!


a reply to: Woodcarver

a reply to: In4ormant

I specifically asked you to teach me so we could share an experience and prove to the world. You keep saying I'm too locked in my own beliefs to try. AGAIN, for the 4th time. Will you or will you not help me to experience this and conduct my test to enlighten everyone. How long can you skirt this before everyone sees your just treading water.

You're wanting to learn how to experience astral projection. You're a google search away from a thousand different methods one can use to trigger the experience (notice how I said 'EXPERIENCE' because you can debate the reality of the experience afterwards), and you're still here telling me I'M treading water?
You want me to do that for you too? I don't see your passion for the subject matter.

What are YOU waiting for? Go try the methods and report back in a few weeks your findings. Then you can bring something to the discussion besides armchair ignorance. Bags packed? Off you go then!

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: Woodcarver

As someone who has been there: Extract information to be used here. But keep in mind that doesn't usually happen...to me.

ETA; I'm with you on this thread. I agree with your thought process and this is coming from a guy who has both astral projected and lucid dreamed. Those who do not understand the difference, more often than not, have never had those experiences they claim to have had...

Maybe you can help since Visitor won't respond to my requests.

Here is what I propose

You teach me how to project to this astral plane and then we conduct my experiment to prove we went. If you haven't read it it consists of this.

We both go under observation by doctors at two different locations. The ones observing me will have a question I am to ask you that I will have no previous knowledge of and will only be told before I project. You will have an answer to provide me given to you by your group, unknown to you until right before you project. Neither group will know what is being relayed to us by the other beforehand. Your answer to my question could be nonsensical. We meet, I ask, you answer. We come back and compare. Prove our interaction and information exchange in a way that is repeatable/testable. Settle this once and for all. You game?

a reply to: Woodcarver

Naïve realism? Really? In the age of quantum physics? Laughable.

"Science seems to be at war with itself.... Naive realism leads to physics, and physics, if true, shows naive realism to be false. Therefore naive realism, if true, is false; therefore it is false."

-Bertrand Russell

👣

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: Woodcarver

Naïve realism? Really? In the age of quantum physics? Laughable.

"Science seems to be at war with itself.... Naive realism leads to physics, and physics, if true, shows naive realism to be false. Therefore naive realism, if true, is false; therefore it is false."

-Bertrand Russell

👣

Why won't you answer his one simple question. What can you do in this Astral Plane?

Removed: redundant points.