Come and lets find truth

Basically I am tired of the normal formats that most threads take. Debating get us no where. I am just as guilty of this as everyone else. The only way people with contrasting views are going to help each other is if each side listens and tries to take away something that will enrich their intellect. The best thing we can do is talk about specifics and actually discuss and understand one another. That means lots of questions and definitions are needed as language is not perfect. This thread is not to convince others that you are right, but to discuss reality and the hard questions. I am not going to give anything to guide the discussions. If you have things you are questioning or trying to figure out ask and as a community lets discuss and hopefully get you one step closer to finding our answers so have at it friends.

I've often wondered how real, Christians believe other gods to be. I know that they are generally viewed as fallen angels, or demons, or one of Satan's many deceiving devices. Are other gods real in any physical sense? Are they real in the same sense your God is real? Able to appear and perform their miracles? Do they exist only in the mind? Placed there by Satan? Or are all other gods nothing more than constructs of the minds of men?

Who really is Satan? Is there an actual figurehead of evil? Or is Satan really anyone who is an adversary? Was that really Satan in the Garden of Eden? Where is he named? If it was Satan and God cursed him to roam on his belly forever, how is he standing on the mountaintop later in the Bible, tempting Christ? How was being cursed to slither on his belly a punishment if he can still do any number of things with his powers? Such as appear as an angel of righteousness? Why is there no consistency with this character?

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Are other gods real in any physical sense? Are they real in the same sense your God is real?

I think some could possibly have entities behind them, but I don't know if I would call them real in any sense. I used to do a lot of psychedelics, sometimes things felt like hallucinations and other times it felt like I was connecting with something beyond us. I think some are just made up to explain nature. The only physical beings i think we might eventually find in reality are nephilim and that would be my take on ET.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I suppose we should start with who is Satan as there are lots of questions here are some verses that may answer that question for you:

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Also note that it is a dragon, so the creature in the garden was most likely an animal not seen in the world today and not just a regular old snake.

Revelation 12:15
And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.

Revelation 20:2
2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand year

Read that in the context of Genesis 3 and it should show you why Satan, the Devil and the serpent are considered one and the same by Christians.

Christians believe that animal, whatever it may have been, was possessed by Satan. Satan operates on a different plane of existence that humans, but it apparently overlaps our world in someway and he can interact with this world. The curse on the animal has always been something I haven't quite understood.

Guten Tag- I don't want to be "that guy"..... but.. In this common passerby's opinion, as soon as You bust out a Rule Book and quote scripture that is a defense. Wasn't the purpose of this thread was an interchange of ideas? Or is this a Bible Study? You realize TheQuorum that picked and chose old pagan tales in which the male was superior over both females and animals, and then have the audacity to relay that The Creator would have a "Chosen People" if they were so chosen then why no land? Now those same folks own everything, worked out okay didn't it? They wrote that to be able to divide the MASSES, see Abraham's seed to this very day..

See? You want KNOWLEDGE and are then told that the snake is evil. The snake represents what it is You desire, KNOWLEDGE..

Every answer to every question is inside of You right now, but the 'Church Folk' will have You talk to Pastor Dave and see what He thinks, don't pay any mind that Pastor Dave is on His 3rd marriage and He cheats on His current Wife, with the organist's Husband, yeah go there...

"Religion is for people afraid of Hell, "Spirituality" is for people who've already been..." - The Great Sioux Nation

namaste

P.S. and if Religion™ would pay their fair share of taxes, then the Gov't. wouldn't be bled dry providing "charity" but Preacher Dollar NEEDS a $65M jet..." And they're in cahoots to spit out drones for TheCompany.

"In the beginning there was Adamu and Lilith, created from the same dirt...." (read: EQUAL)
" " Adam and Eve created from Adam's rib... so subservient..

Does that seem right? Which one is "chosen" here?

YOU are TheCreator working Your way back from whence You came, The One Infinite Creator, Hunab Ku, who resides in The Octave..

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I suppose we should start with who is Satan as there are lots of questions here are some verses that may answer that question for you:

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Also note that it is a dragon, so the creature in the garden was most likely an animal not seen in the world today and not just a regular old snake.

Revelation 12:15
And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.

Revelation 20:2
2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand year

Read that in the context of Genesis 3 and it should show you why Satan, the Devil and the serpent are considered one and the same by Christians.

Christians believe that animal, whatever it may have been, was possessed by Satan. Satan operates on a different plane of existence that humans, but it apparently overlaps our world in someway and he can interact with this world. The curse on the animal has always been something I haven't quite understood.

www.youtube.com...

I guess it depends on which side of the street You are on...

a reply to: JimNasium

Guten Tag- I don't want to be "that guy"..... but.. In this common passerby's opinion, as soon as You bust out a Rule Book and quote scripture that is a defense. Wasn't the purpose of this thread was an interchange of ideas? Or is this a Bible Study

All I did was answer his questions with what I think... i don't see how that is me busting out a rule book...i quoted scripture because he asked theological questions?

. See? You want KNOWLEDGE and are then told that the snake is evil. The snake represents what it is You desire, KNOWLEDGE..

That is not the Christian stand point and I don't really see how you come to that conclusion based on the whole of Scripture. I don't really understand how people get there from Genesis 3.

Every answer to every question is inside of You right now, but the 'Church Folk' will have You talk to Pastor Dave and see what He thinks, don't pay any mind that Pastor Dave is on His 3rd marriage and He cheats on His current Wife, with the organist's Husband, yeah go there

So I am omniscient I just don't know it?

"In the beginning there was Adamu and Lilith, created from the same dirt...." (read: EQUAL) " " Adam and Eve created from Adam's rib... so subservient.. Does that seem right? Which one is "chosen" here?

Lilith is not even implied in Biblical text as far as I am aware of.. i know some read her into genesis 1 but I doesn't read that way imo.

YOU are TheCreator working Your way back from whence You came, The One Infinite Creator, Hunab Ku, who resides in The Octave..

What makes you think this is true?

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
I've often wondered how real, Christians believe other gods to be. I know that they are generally viewed as fallen angels, or demons, or one of Satan's many deceiving devices. Are other gods real in any physical sense? Are they real in the same sense your God is real? Able to appear and perform their miracles? Do they exist only in the mind? Placed there by Satan? Or are all other gods nothing more than constructs of the minds of men?

Christians basically deny the existence of other godly figures. I'm a Christian but I also respect the religious views of other.
Gods are real as long as people keeps their belief in the supernatural.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

I suppose we should start with who is Satan as there are lots of questions here are some verses that may answer that question for you:

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Also note that it is a dragon, so the creature in the garden was most likely an animal not seen in the world today and not just a regular old snake.

Revelation 12:15
And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.

Revelation 20:2
2And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand year

Read that in the context of Genesis 3 and it should show you why Satan, the Devil and the serpent are considered one and the same by Christians.

Christians believe that animal, whatever it may have been, was possessed by Satan. Satan operates on a different plane of existence that humans, but it apparently overlaps our world in someway and he can interact with this world. The curse on the animal has always been something I haven't quite understood.

What I believe (in regard of this context), based on my own opinion is that Satan is a dragon or a seraphim (they may be basically the same). Have you seen the oriental dragon? It looks like a serpent with wings and legs.

Genesis 3:14 14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

So he just cut his legs and wings.
Now, let's think about this:
1. The serpent talk with Eve and she wasn't scared. Meaning that they already knew the serpent, it was not a new character for them.
2. God did not call the serpent Satan, so God did not considered it an adversary (He just cut off his legs and wings, there is no more danger in the future).
3. Based on number 2: Who or what is Satan?

Other religions in the world consider the snake or dragons a source of knowledge and wisdom. Only Christianity consider it a bad thing. But even the bible consider the snake a source of salvation.
Numbers 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
What could that mean? Possibly they acquired a new knowledge (serpent) but did not have the wisdom to use it, and Moses gave them the "key" (the brass serpent) to interpret that knowledge.

And last:
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up...
Jesus symbolizing the serpent in the desert.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
I've often wondered how real, Christians believe other gods to be. I know that they are generally viewed as fallen angels, or demons, or one of Satan's many deceiving devices. Are other gods real in any physical sense? Are they real in the same sense your God is real? Able to appear and perform their miracles? Do they exist only in the mind? Placed there by Satan? Or are all other gods nothing more than constructs of the minds of men?

We need to see what the word God means in the Bible. The word God just means "spirit", which is what Jesus reminded. God is a spirit.

So the word god, as the witch of Endor says "I see gods ascending", meant that spiritual beings were being observed.As the Bible does teach that man has a spirit, that is the meaning of "ye are gods", and has nothing to do with being "GODS", but spiritual beings, wrapped in flesh.

From what we believe, God breathed into man the breath of life and man became a living soul. That is what makes us "gods", understand the meaning of the words used.

We are not "gods" in the sense of beings such as Odin, Zeus, or other gods of that nature, we simply have that spirit within, therefore because we have that spirit of life in us, we are "gods".

In a physical sense? Is your mind real in the physical sense? No, those other gods are spiritual entities as well, it is just that we recognize they do exist, we don't worship them. To say they could never be spiritual entities, that really goes against what we understand of the concept of gods. Some simply are not worthy of worship, some of them forced people to worship and some of them remain hidden.

If you ask most Christians, it really is hard pressed for them to conceive of God as a spiritual entity. But like the Bible says, "the God of the whole earth". That is why you see parallels in ancient religions.

The physicality? Even humans are less physical than trees, rocks or your computer. You have more empty space, so that makes you less physical.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
Who really is Satan? Is there an actual figurehead of evil? Or is Satan really anyone who is an adversary? Was that really Satan in the Garden of Eden? Where is he named? If it was Satan and God cursed him to roam on his belly forever, how is he standing on the mountaintop later in the Bible, tempting Christ? How was being cursed to slither on his belly a punishment if he can still do any number of things with his powers? Such as appear as an angel of righteousness? Why is there no consistency with this character?

Satan is just a name attached to a spiritual entity. Yes, an adversary and yes, an accuser.

Think about it, if all he can do is tempt, there is no real power to Satan, but there are many entities that can and do enact certain powers. And it says "the serpent" meaning that the entity only took on a form that would have been recognized by Adam and Eve already. Satan can do that now, take on forms, sometimes looking as good.

Yes, there are spiritual entities, we just don't know all of them and neither should we want to. There is no doubt that some people who have attempted to bring forward spiritual entities usually end up in a lot of trouble. They can and have.

We live in an almost real world, we are really more spiritual than natural and have that connection to the spiritual realm. Even you, because you think, you are in a spiritual realm because your thoughts and memories have little physicality and all your emotions are attached to them.

Just because a thought is manifested into physical action does not mean that your actions originated in a sole physical dimension. Your body still functions without your thought about it.