Ouija Boards?

originally posted by: Blue Shift
Can you guess who is the sole judge?

And what is questionable there? He offers money who can provide evidence/proof of supernatural/paranormal. Something similar did another magician in his time, great Houdini, who exposed all 'mystics who talked to dead'.

There is nothing unknown about Ouija board, it is proven system, and reproduced in lab - we know it's no magic. There is no question about it, but don't forget, it is still big business and there are people making money out of it, like one in Penn and Teller video.

You can get some kids board now, apparently...

originally posted by: SuperFrog
And what is questionable there? He offers money who can provide evidence/proof of supernatural/paranormal.

According to his own personal criteria. For someone championing rationality, a panel of unbiased experts might be called for. But he doesn't have the money to do that. Nor does he have the million he claims he'll give the right person.

Something similar did another magician in his time, great Houdini, who exposed all 'mystics who talked to dead'.

Read a little history, and you'll find that isn't exactly true. What Houdini did was try to find someone through whom he could talk to his deceased mother. He was disappointed that nobody could really do it, but he still believed it was possible. His goal was not to expose false mediums, but to find a real one. Which might admittedly be difficult.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Now you are talking just non-sense. Million dollar challenge is real, many have already applied, tried and failed. Sorry to burst the bubble, but there is really nothing supernatural or magical, just simply he was able to show all tricks people used to sell as magic.

We should be really thankful to Randi for all he has done to provide simple answers...

As for Houdini, who did something similar before, here is short c/p from Wikipedia, you can follow references if you don't believe or read book about it, but it will not be like romanticized version you think it was...

... In the 1920s Houdini turned his energies toward debunking psychics and mediums, a pursuit that inspired and was followed by latter-day stage magicians.[57] Houdini's training in magic allowed him to expose frauds who had successfully fooled many scientists and academics. He was a member of a Scientific American committee that offered a cash prize to any medium who could successfully demonstrate supernatural abilities. None was able to do so, and the prize was never collected. The first to be tested was medium George Valentine of Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. As his fame as a "ghostbuster" grew, Houdini took to attending séances in disguise, accompanied by a reporter and police officer. Possibly the most famous medium whom he debunked was Mina Crandon, also known as "Margery".[58] "Houdini exposed numerous phony mediums and inspired other magicians to follow suit. The Amazing Randi, (Dorothy) Dietrich, Penn & Teller and Dick Brookz are magicians that have exposed these unscrupulous mediums."[59]

Houdini chronicled his debunking exploits in his book, A Magician Among the Spirits, co-authored with C. M. Eddy, Jr., who was not credited. These activities cost Houdini the friendship of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Doyle, a firm believer in spiritualism during his later years, refused to believe any of Houdini's exposés. Doyle came to believe that Houdini was a powerful spiritualist medium, and had performed many of his stunts by means of paranormal abilities and was using these abilities to block those of other mediums that he was "debunking".[60] This disagreement led to the two men becoming public antagonists and led Sir Arthur to view Houdini as a dangerous enemy.[18]...

Source - en.wikipedia.org...

Sorry, but no magic here or there.

a reply to: SuperFrog

The paranormal is something you will need to experience yourself. It is not confined by the rigid boundaries of the scientific method. One day you will have an experience where all your preconceived notions will be challenged and you won't have the scientific method to reassure you that it's not real.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Amen to that. If I could just cut out the memories I have of my childhood up through my teen years and just about to the time I was first married in '79 I could look at things the same way. I'm an engineer and tend to think of things in logical scientific terms but I can't forget what I experienced earlier in my life. Especially when measured against what I've learned since then.

I don't have paranormal experiences any more, I think whatever is responsible for it has decided to pull back because I did not have the desired response. Instead of giving in to the fear and helplessness I have made a bold commitment to overcome it and it has retreated. I had my experiences early in life, they could have shaped me thereafter but I would not let them.

A good friend of mine had a friend that used an Ouija board, to which it told him he would die within the next few months. My friend then found that his friend had died in a motorcycle accident a few months later. Coincidence? It's hard to decide.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: SuperFrog

The paranormal is something you will need to experience yourself. It is not confined by the rigid boundaries of the scientific method. One day you will have an experience where all your preconceived notions will be challenged and you won't have the scientific method to reassure you that it's not real.

Sorry, just unable to believe. Too many 'mediums' that hunt on people 'wanting' to believe anything. From now late Sylvia Brown, that avoided to be tested/proven wrong (but for healthy fee you can still contact her son that got 'spirituality') to something as Ouija, witch we know how it works, no spirits involved, yet you again try to mystify all this group of fraudsters.

Where I get moved is not someone paying 20-30 bucks to get Ouija, as far as I care, you can spend money on anything you want, but then as I already pointed, some people make living on this, lying everyone and making it like they can talk to dead or spirits...

Just as I said, business as usual, but interestingly, no paranormal, and we still have people believe... just like religion.

originally posted by: SuperFrog
Sorry, just unable to believe. Too many 'mediums' that hunt on people 'wanting' to believe anything. From now late Sylvia Brown, that avoided to be tested/proven wrong (but for healthy fee you can still contact her son that got 'spirituality') to something as Ouija, witch we know how it works, no spirits involved, yet you again try to mystify all this group of fraudsters.

So because there are fraudsters trying to exploit people in order to make money, this proves that Paranormal phenomena does not exist? I don't know why your mind is fixated on the industry instead of the phenomena itself. It's like saying mathematical probability does not really exist because so many people are scammed into playing the lottery.

Where I get moved is not someone paying 20-30 bucks to get Ouija, as far as I care, you can spend money on anything you want, but then as I already pointed, some people make living on this, lying everyone and making it like they can talk to dead or spirits...

Just as I said, business as usual, but interestingly, no paranormal, and we still have people believe... just like religion.

So your beef is with people who profit off others using lies? Fair enough. But that is hardly justification to believe that Paranormal phenomena does not exist...

a reply to: Dark Ghost

No, for that I use evidence, and so far, no evidence exist.

Mix that with not little, but huge number of fraudsters already exposed and you will get dim picture... it is just profit interest, nothing else... some people don't care and find it fine to sell you thin air...

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
In this sense it is being used as a word to describe brain functions that happen on levels that you might not be aware of.

And the cause and motivation of those brain functions are...?

We don't know yet. That's why we are scienceing to find out.

Channeling board are very real. It requires spiritual protection from evil. We received this prayer of protection during a channeling session. I have video and audio proof as I recorded the session. Here are the words of the prayer:

God please grant us your wisdom and protection. Grant us the knowledge that we can handle and keep us safe from all things that will harm us. Keep the messages positive and pure love. Keep us safe from our own ego. We ask these things in the light of the seen, the unseen and the honesty of God.

I would suggest these are not the words of demonic spirit.

a reply to: mavra81

a reply to: Darkblade71

Yeah, the table did sound pretty cool, I don't think I'd have even used it if I'd gotten it--but still...

originally posted by: pavmas
a reply to: dreamingawake

He was actually going to do this on air, I thought this guy was smarter than this, Im glad he pulled out

Out of curiosity, what would have been the big deal with him doing it on air?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
We don't know yet. That's why we are scienceing to find out.

Demons, I tells ya!

a reply to: Blue Shift

I'll give you a maybe on that one. But I don't jump to those sorts of conclusions without the proper evidence. We don't know is an acceptable answer for me when the evidence is lacking.

I live with paranormal experiences every day. Most do not accept paranormal happenings for what they are. Sometimes it is a message in you mind telling you not to do something. Sometimes it is a shadow seen rapidly out of the corner of your eye. It is an incredible world when you open your eyes to it. a reply to: Dark Ghost

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Definitions of terms... what one calls "demon," another can call, more accurately imo, an "unknown, invisible sentience projecting feelings of dread that tends to manipulate environments to promote isolation, paranoia and fear" ...
'demon' does have dogmatic baggage attached that might not be accurate.

At the core, we have a number of folks having experience with invisible entities and other unexplained events, including those boards, and a number who haven't ... personally, I'm just trying to understand it and tell folks that this stuff happens in the spirit of truth and knowledge.

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Definitions of terms... what one calls "demon," another can call, more accurately imo, an "unknown, invisible sentience projecting feelings of dread that tends to manipulate environments to promote isolation, paranoia and fear" ...
'demon' does have dogmatic baggage attached that might not be accurate.

I think it is safe to assume that when one says demon, they are referring to an outside and sentient source the feelings originate from. I'm of the idea that these ideas originate from you, not an outside source.

At the core, we have a number of folks having experience with invisible entities and other unexplained events, including those boards, and a number who haven't ... personally, I'm just trying to understand it and tell folks that this stuff happens in the spirit of truth and knowledge.

I'd chalk up a bunch of those experiences from believers to being confirmation bias. As has been pointed out not only by me but other posters, scientists have figured out how this board works. They know the human effect that causes cursor to move. Therefore, they are using the board to study human consciousness on a sub-awareness level.

In other words, scientists have already moved past "demons" or "spirits" and are using it to study the human brain.

Keep in mind that medieval accounts of succubi reported a feeling of being wide awake but unable to move and a heavy weight on their chest like someone sitting on it. Now a days we just call that sleep paralysis, but I'm sure you can still find people who think that demons are sitting on their chest every time this happens to them (or the one time it happens in their lives if they don't suffer from chronic sleep paralysis).

originally posted by: alienauthor
Sometimes it is a shadow seen rapidly out of the corner of your eye. It is an incredible world when you open your eyes to it. a reply to: Dark Ghost

And every time it is all in your head, imo.

I'm big enough to admit I get spooked out by old houses sometimes, thinking of all the generations of people that have died in them. Yet, I have spent years camping in all types of different environments, the bush, forests (tropical & temperate) and in the desert and never given the supernatural a second thought. Which makes no sense whatsoever, since a house has a 100 to 150 years history tops. But the aboriginals have been inhabiting the bush for over 40 thousand years. So it is far more likely there would be spirits out bush than in some old hundred year old house.

Yet, its the old house that tends to get me spooked out at times. This is obviously because the Hollywood horrors I've grown up on were about old spooky houses and not the bush.

Point being............... its all in your head and just a matter of perspective.

I remember using one of these during the Clinton/Bush presidential race of '92. It predicted Clinton would loose to Bush.

Well, Clinton became president and Bush lost.

So much for predicting the future...