ATS's lack of backbone in regards to the cannabis issue.

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

So...last night I lost my internet connection, while in the middle of having our little chat in this thread. (We had some thunderstorms, so no...I don't think it was anything other than that. I'm not THAT paranoid...lol)

Now that it's morning I'm about totally out of "rant" for the time being. So I guess it's on to some more logic approach to this discussion.

I really do appreciate staff and SO chiming in here. Strange how fast you can gather them all with a thread title as inflammatory as this one, aye.
It really allows me to see that this issue is not going unnoticed and that some of the staff here are actually vocal about it behind the scenes. That gives me some level of assurance that there isn't something "else" going on. (things others will claim and will attempt to slander ATS for, but I will not because I don't really believe all that)

I do find the quote from Springer interesting though....

It makes zero sense that we would greatly reduce the perceived credibility of the topics that the site was founded on, limit the potential reach of our member's thoughts and ideas by a significant margin, and alienate the single source of revenue that allows the site to continue, all for the benefit of one topic that has never, ever, generated anything of value at all.

Springer...

I'd be interested to know what this "single source of revenue" is. I'd also like to know what this "source of revenue" has to gain/lose from such discussions.

.....................

Ok....onward to reply to a few individually before I pile it in one comment that makes no sense.

a reply to: Jakal26

I'd be interested to know what this "single source of revenue" is. I'd also like to know what this "source of revenue" has to gain/lose from such discussions.

Originally a lot of places would blacklist sites that had adult content or drug content. Like work computers or schools, universities etc.

Since ad revenue is the main if not only source of revenue for ATS ( I don't actually know, cause I've never asked, cause it's none of my business), having all those locations block ATS was a detriment to the site.

I do believe that quote is at least a few hears old though and I'm not even sure if what I said above still applies today, hence the rule changes.

~Tenth

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

See, this right here...

It just boils down to not advocating personal recreational use at this point.

That isn't what I am talking about at all. I said as much in the OP, but allow me to reiterate...
I understand COMPLETELY why recreational use discussion is not allowed. I actually agree with this policy. It would indeed pollute the site......but what of those who have no interest in "recreational" use?
Is utilizing cannabis as a medicine and discussing it's [personally speaking] medical effects being considered the same as "recreational use"? (I say this fully realizing that in this very thread, such a comment has been allowed to stand. I'm actually VERY happy that it's stood thus far btw)

At this point I'm basically just asking the above. Is "recreational use" and personal medicinal experience considered the same.

Others here have said the same thing I have. We understand that things have changed and are happy about that, but it hasn't been addressed in a formal fashion and many who might post about this person or that healing or easing symptoms of this or that illness won't do so because they are afraid of violating the T&C.

Skirting the issue and being "lax" when moderating the discussion surrounding this issue isn't the same as formally laying out what is "allowed" and what is not going to be tolerated. I mean, sure, those reading this thread or a few others might see your words here......but it would be nice to see a thread discussing this, written by staff or yourself to help others that won't see this understand that they're not going to "get into trouble" with the man because they tell everyone how their father was cured of (whatever).....

I think the power of that discussion is being underestimated.


..............
I'll explain more in response to some others here in just a few.
I'm sure you've got other stuff to do besides read my ramblings all day

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I see.

Thanks for the response.

I did realize the quote was probably a bit outdated when I said something about it.

More than anything, the " all for the benefit of one topic that has never, ever, generated anything of value at all. " grinds my gears a bit though...but I won't go too far with that one.

I just find it odd that anyone would say something like "this topic has never generated anything of value".....

So, potentially providing information to the [possibly] uninformed/ill informed that could save lives (literally and in the real world) isn't something "of value"..... ok

a reply to: AnuTyr

this is a touchy subject and you are playing with fire.

Lol....Well, I was born to play with fire. Just going along to get along really isn't my thing, so....let the chips fall where they may.

I don't understand what you are asking jackle as in, what you are requesting is already possible within ATS under the right circumstances.

Perhaps I wasn't asking anything of real value. Hence the reason this went into the "rant" forum. It was an intentional choice of forum. Like I said before, more than anything...I was merely venting because of something I had seen taken down earlier last night. Though I understand why it was, it just really got to me for a minute. Watching as a father is stripped from his child for trying to SAVE HIS CHILD'S LIFE and then others advocating for him and being shut down here because they are "recruiting"......it just got to me a bit. BUT, I do understand why it was taken down (for the last time, so others can read it...since most seem to never read through an entire comment anymore...lol)

Perhaps what I am "requesting" (if that's what we're calling it) is already happening here.

Maybe more than anything this have evolved into more a request that we get a fresh, new, detailed thread on what is considered "medicinal discussion" vs "recreational drug talk"...because there are members here that won't post the aforementioned because the latter is what they think it all falls into and they are afraid of losing their membership here.....

Like everyone seems to agree on....we're "playing with fire" discussing it and skirting the issue by allowing some things to stand while others are taken down isn't what I want to do. I'd like to stay within the T&C but when the nature of the T&C has changed a bit I'd like a bit of acknowledgment of it rather than just having to skirt the issue.

We're getting that here.....SO has been kind enough to explain some things here. So, for that, I'm grateful and this thread wasn't all for nil, which is a huge plus...to me anyways.

a reply to: and14263

Generally I find discussion on ATS about cannabis is one sided, immature and those who profess its genius are blind to the other sides of the argument.

Our experiences differ in that regard. I've seen a lot of that but I've also seen PLENTY of reasoned, rational discussion where those who advocate it's medicinal wonders can also be open to it's potential pitfalls.

Not all of us who know about the medicinal value of this plant are blind to the other side of the argument.
In the past, I've said as much here.
I am not one that will tell anyone that cannabis has no potentially ill side effects. < I know, but see...again, T&C keeps me from discussing, even that side of the issue....

I've done a lot in my private life for promoting cannabis as a medical aid but never on here, never with the views of teens on this site who get high and talk nonsense.

I'm not here for the teens on this site that may cause this or that....
There's been plenty of reasoned discussion, mainly regarding the reasons for prohibition and the like, and I've not seen that happening as much as you seem to have seen it. Like I said, maybe our experiences just differ in that regard..

I completely agree with the decision of the T&Cs.

Then in that regard, we shall agree to disagree.

Did we not learn about weed and start all the medical research after people were smoking the stuff ? Or did the medical come first and the populace caught on ? It was the former. ATS should ban folks talking about alcohol like it"s soda pop. Alcohol kills......even those who don't consume it. Far more dangerous than weed, with almost zero medical benefeits.

a reply to: Jakal26

So, potentially providing information to the [possibly] uninformed/ill informed that could save lives (literally and in the real world) isn't something "of value"..... ok

At the time that was written, the staff would have been dealing with this issue a lot and you can probably chalk that up to frustration more so than anything else on Mark's part.

At this point I'm basically just asking the above. Is "recreational use" and personal medicinal experience considered the same.

This is actually something of a grey area. IMO no it's not and one should be allowed while the other isn't, but I don't make that call so I'll leave it to Bill or Mark to come and see what that is about. Considering we allow threads on research with Cannabis and no doubt that includes clinical trials in which people ingest the stuff, I'd assume yes we can discuss that.

But please don't use my assumption as justification lol

~Tenth

a reply to: HumansEh

I may be wrong, but I see this as a crucial and delicate time in negotiations with ideas so ingrained in the minds of TPTB that subtlety is the best way at the moment. Don't spook the animal as it walks tentatively into range by blathering on about how delicious the last one was!

Which "powers that be" are we discussing here? This site's or TPTB in real world?
Because if it's the latter, I think discussion about how they have KNOWINGLY demonized and suppressed VITAL information is one that we should be having. Anyone who withholds (knowingly, and many know and have seen the empirical evidence) information that can and does save lives to make a buck doesn't deserve me "subtlety playing their games" and dancing their circles.....F that!
If it was up to me, each and every person that has profited from prohibition would meet their end, with a sign letting the world know they are TRAITORS to ALL humanity. < That's how I feel about it........gladly enough, for them, I don't run the show.....so.

If we're talking about TPTB here at ATS.....
Well, like another said, I'm playing with fire.....but I've been known to do that a time or two.

I've no interest in just marching along with the herd, even if that means my membership here.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

This is actually something of a grey area. IMO no it's not and one should be allowed while the other isn't, but I don't make that call so I'll leave it to Bill or Mark to come and see what that is about. Considering we allow threads on research with Cannabis and no doubt that includes clinical trials in which people ingest the stuff, I'd assume yes we can discuss that. But please don't use my assumption as justification lol

Your assumption seems to line up with my own. Though, I won't hold you to it as a "justification" for my words.
I know where I can skirt and where I can and my post history proves that I don't take it over the line...basically ever. I think I've only had a few posts taken down the entire time I've been here and I've posted some stuff that I knew was "skirting the T&C" because I felt it was vital information (it wasn't in regards to the cannabis issue, btw).....The only thing ever taken down was something I didn't know about...and that was promoting stuff that makes ads disappear. I wasn't selling it, just trying to help but didn't realize we can't do that here...so, live and learn.

That gray area that the cannabis discussion is in is exactly what I'm talking about and have asked for FORMAL clarification on....(not just a few comments in a singular thread...though, I do appreciate those as well)

a reply to: openyourmind1262

ATS should ban folks talking about alcohol like it"s soda pop. Alcohol kills......even those who don't consume it. Far more dangerous than weed, with almost zero medical benefeits.

A thousand stars doesn't do this justice...

EXACTLY!

Thank you...

(oh...and for the record, I like a cold one just as much as the next guy, but if some are going to come in here and claim that discussion of cannabis is going to result in a polluted site of no value then they should look to all the "I'm posting drunk" discussion that goes on here)

Feels (sometimes) more like the owners here don't want to push the establishment buttons too much on this one...and since there is a ton of other "button pushing" content here, I have to wonder why......why it's taken/taking so long...

As I said before, an NSA guy shows up and gets hooked up right away because that information is "imperative" and just has to be got out....but this issue can literally SAVE LIVES...but it's not worthy of discussion here?

..............
Seems messed up.....but I understand who runs the show, so I won't "go there" and I am not accusing anyone of anything other than being a bit slow on the draw here....lol

a reply to: Krazysh0t

My problem is the lack of clarification on the issue.
Is "recreational use" discussion the same as "medicinal use" personal experience?

That's what I was asking, if I was asking anything.

Perhaps you should read the OP before the snide "I don't know what your problem is" remarks and some of the comments.
This IS the rant forum, after all. I didn't know I needed a reason to rant. lol

I'll be back later.
Case of early morning writers cramp and I've got some things to do.

Again, thanks to those who have responded rationally and with reasoned approach. Ya'll are why I ALWAYS hang around this place.

The rest (only a few)....start reading the content before you decide you know exactly what the OP is saying and how they are trying to relay it.
It's often hard to put it all into words, especially when "ranting".....so, give a person some time to clarify their thoughts for god's sake!

a reply to: Jakal26

I just treat them as the same. There is no way you can prove that your medical usage is medical and not recreational on the internet so until they say you can talk about them, I just don't. That doesn't prevent me from making tons of threads about marijuana though. I just made one a few minutes ago in fact.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I know. I saw it.
Was about to venture into that thread, actually....

There is no way you can prove that your medical usage is medical and not recreational on the internet so until they say you can talk about them, I just don't.

Sure there is.
Just keep it in context.
I think the differentiation can be made....medicinal use is NOT recreational use. They're not even in the same ballpark (as you well know, evident by your posts on the subject)...

Differentiation is made in regards to big pharma drugs, no?
Someone discussing a pain killer (opiates) who is discussing it's pain relieving effects is not the same as someone telling us how they ate 3 oxys and nodded out for 6 hours.
There is a HUGE difference.......not sure why it would have to "be proven"....just keeping it in context would be sufficient, imho.

a reply to: Jakal26

I'm going to level with you. I think that medical and even recreational discussion should be allowed. We are allowed to talk about recreational alcohol use and marijuana is demonstrably less dangerous than alcohol. It's a big double standard, but having come from the time where threads of this type would get deleted for even mentioning the word "marijuana", I'm really just happy we can talk about it at all.

Maybe when (yes when, not if) medical marijuana is finally legalized, the mods will relax the standards on medical discussion.

if you didn't know by now ATS went to crap a long time ago. i only come here just to depress myself thinking it will be back to the good ol days

Well folks, the questions have been answered as best as they shall for now.

SO and Mark have made it relatively clear. Yes there is still a gray area, and it will be handled on a case by case basis.

As such, this thread is now closed and being moved to the proper forum, since Rant is not for site policy discussions.

Any further questions can be sent to staff via my signature, or by using the complaint feature.

Closed.

~Tenth