Missouri Lawmakers Don't Want Food Stamp Recipients To Buy Steak

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You are right they are not the majority but they are the largest group. 43% of 46 million is almost 20 million. Still not seeing how this is possible if it really were "difficult to impossible".

Also, "in many cases and locations" really doesn't make you comment true.

I currently live in Missouri and i currently get EBT. I mostly shop at Aldies where i can buy some things a little cheaper, but some towns outside the larger cities have better selections and even cheaper meat prices, especially where they have an isle where the food is 5 items for $25. Lebanon missouri at pricechopper has the 5 for 25 and they have the best and largest packages of hamburger and country ribs, you'll find anywhere in the state, and the steak from the meat counter isn't much more expensive than that. I receive less than $200 a month, but for that amount of money and shopping the way that i do, i could live on half that a month and still have steak and pork left over well into the next month. The thing is, if i searched around, i could eat like a king, because someplace somewhere is going to have great deals on food, and the ones who don't are just greedy..Like Walmart, and other large food chains, and although there are many who abuse the System, its not the food where its happening, unless they are exchanging it somehow for cash?

Fact

a reply to: blackmetalmist

No argument with your logic. But when I was a child, I had to rely on my parents. As an old man, I will have to rely on my children, my doctors, and the money I have stashed away in my lifetime. In between, I get up and work. But as a professional in the first world, I know I do not work as hard as others on the planet.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

You are right they are not the majority but they are the largest group. 43% of 46 million is almost 20 million. Still not seeing how this is possible if it really were "difficult to impossible".

Also, "in many cases and locations" really doesn't make you comment true.

Well, the people I spoke with didn't lie. Nor does your disbelief mean there is no fraud or abuse of the system.

That aside, the thread topic is whether or not what is purchased should be controlled. Do you have an opinion about that, or do you simply want to keep claiming that something I shared is a lie?

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Well, the people I spoke with didn't lie. Nor does your disbelief mean there is no fraud or abuse of the system.

I didn't address any claim of fraud or abuse, you said that it is "difficult to impossible" for white people to get food stamps.

The people you know may not be lying about what they were told, but what they were told is a lie.

That aside, the thread topic is whether or not what is purchased should be controlled. Do you have an opinion about that, or do you simply want to keep claiming that something I shared is a lie?

There already is a certain amount of control and that doesn't really stop anything so add more or reduce the present control, it doesn't really matter.

originally posted by: daskakik
I didn't address any claim of fraud or abuse, you said that it is "difficult to impossible" for white people to get food stamps.

The people you know may not be lying about what they were told, but what they were told is a lie.

One person told she could get benefits better if her surname was Hispanic is a family member, and she was told that by someone in the system, who saw it firsthand. That person wasn't lying, and was, in fact, Hispanic. Just not happy about how the system there was being run.

originally posted by: daskakik
There already is a certain amount of control and that doesn't really stop anything so add more or reduce the present control, it doesn't really matter.

Well, that's an opinion, anyway. I find the fellow making the statement that people shouldn't be able to buy certain foods to be arrogant and snobbish. I could see if they were using funds meant for food to buy a car, or a stereo, or the like, but food options? That's too much. Especially when we can sometimes find steak for less than ground beef or chicken. It's weird, but it happens. I suspect that man just looks down on anyone that needs help.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
One person told she could get benefits better if her surname was Hispanic is a family member, and she was told that by someone in the system, who saw it firsthand. That person wasn't lying, and was, in fact, Hispanic. Just not happy about how the system there was being run.

But the stats say otherwise so whatever they thought they saw was not accurate. I'm sure there are certain areas where a majority of the applicants are of one particular race and the worker was using that to wield a broad brush.

What's wrong with pointing out the width of the brush?

Well, that's an opinion, anyway.

I did post earlier in the thread and even posted a link to a doc that contained the prices of beef in Missouri showing the hypocrisy of calling beef a luxury item.

The poor always get the short shrift from everybody. And at a disproportionate rate as compared to any other group. To be fair, the Missouri lawmaker at the head of this thread should also be introducing a law that specifically prohibits rich people from being able to buy bologna, Spam, Ramen noodles, potted meat and various other "poor" food items. Just so that they, too, can feel the sting of not being free to choose everything they want like all the poor people are subjected to. Not that rich people probably even buy this stuff, only to make sure they get in on the fun of being told something they can't do.

I didn't read through every page of this thread, so I hope this hasn't already been proposed. And, just because you give someone some assistance like foodstamps, shouldn't mean you have the right to dictate what their diet should be. If you really cared about people like you say you do, as a politician you should try to make laws that pertain to everybody, not just the lower parts of society.

originally posted by: daskakik
But the stats say otherwise so whatever they thought they saw was not accurate. I'm sure there are certain areas where a majority of the applicants are of one particular race and the worker was using that to wield a broad brush.

"What they thought they saw"?? So, they don't know what they really saw, because of some stats?? The majority of the people in that area receiving aid were from those minorities. No one was hallucinating.

originally posted by: daskakik
I did post earlier in the thread and even posted a link to a doc that contained the prices of beef in Missouri showing the hypocrisy of calling beef a luxury item.

I saw that, and it's good information. The entire business from the lawmaker complaining is ridiculous. Again, I suspect the guy is more than a bit of a snob.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
"What they thought they saw"?? So, they don't know what they really saw, because of some stats?? The majority of the people in that area receiving aid were from those minorities. No one was hallucinating.

They made a leap to a conclusion based on partial information and the stats refute the claim that it is "difficult to impossible" for white people to get food stamps.

Nobody is saying that this isn't what they saw but that the conclusion they came to is wrong.

I saw that, and it's good information. The entire business from the lawmaker complaining is ridiculous. Again, I suspect the guy is more than a bit of a snob.

The politician is saying what he believes his voter base wants to hear. Even if it goes nowhere he will still have the support of those who thought this was a step in the right direction.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
"What they thought they saw"?? So, they don't know what they really saw, because of some stats?? The majority of the people in that area receiving aid were from those minorities. No one was hallucinating.

They made a leap to a conclusion based on partial information and the stats refute the claim that it is "difficult to impossible" for white people to get food stamps.

Nobody is saying that this isn't what they saw but that the conclusion they came to is wrong.

Fair enough. In that area, at that time, that was the case, according to the person that was within the system, and according to the local stats. In some places, corruption within the system can and does cause that sort of issue. It doesn't have to be nationwide to show a problem in the system. The bigger problem is the people like the drug dealer that the other person encountered, and no one even investigating when that was reported. That is the sort of thing people hear about all the time. How else would people on welfare and food stamps afford luxury cars, and other items of that sort?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
I saw that, and it's good information. The entire business from the lawmaker complaining is ridiculous. Again, I suspect the guy is more than a bit of a snob.

The politician is saying what he believes his voter base wants to hear. Even if it goes nowhere he will still have the support of those who thought this was a step in the right direction.

Well, of course he is! They all do that. Doesn't make him less of a jerk, though.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
It doesn't have to be nationwide to show a problem in the system. The bigger problem is the people like the drug dealer that the other person encountered, and no one even investigating when that was reported. That is the sort of thing people hear about all the time. How else would people on welfare and food stamps afford luxury cars, and other items of that sort?

Being partial to conspiracy theories, I can't help but think that that system works exactly as planned.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
How else would people on welfare and food stamps afford luxury cars, and other items of that sort?

To be fair, if say someone middle class was to have a paid off luxury car, and then lost their job of 30 years, they wouldn't suddenly stop having their luxury car. Doubtful that was the case in your example, but we did not that many years ago have a major recession which resulted in a lot of people losing their livelihoods and dropping from middle class to poverty levels almost overnight as business crashed and burned all over the country.

So a lot of people on food stamps, who've been thrown back into the poorer work force might still have hold overs from when they saw better days. Like their nice car, their big screen tv's, ect.

For all you know, said luxury car might be all the person has left. They may be living out of it for all you know. That may very well be their home.

My main point is, people make a lot of assumptions about things they see without ever considering other alternatives or possibilities. They see something out of place and assume the worst, when there are many plausible reasons that out of place thing may be where it is, if one only knew the whole story.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
It doesn't have to be nationwide to show a problem in the system. The bigger problem is the people like the drug dealer that the other person encountered, and no one even investigating when that was reported. That is the sort of thing people hear about all the time. How else would people on welfare and food stamps afford luxury cars, and other items of that sort?

Being partial to conspiracy theories, I can't help but think that that system works exactly as planned.

Oh, I am sure that it does! In areas with problems like some I described, it's another tool to foster division among people. Welfare also has the advantage of placing those that us it under heavier control.

There was a time I thought most of the conspiracy theories were just that; theories. I came across this site to read about some of the famous ones, like the JFK stuff, and was hooked. In the years since, and with all we can see happening, I am far more inclined to listen tot he theories!

a reply to: Puppylove

Those are valid points, of course. I am certain that many people have fallen on hard times, and still have some nice things. Anyone can hit a rough patch. It's far easier than a lot of people think, and one doesn't have to do anything wrong to get into some serious financial straights, either.

There have been some cases, though, where people were abusing the system badly. The really big cases, one hopes, are rare. I suspect there are more than a few where people engaging in criminal activity off the books are using the system for extra stuff, though. How to have a system that helps those in need, yet weeds out cases like that, isn't an easy puzzle. As a society, we should be helping those with a real need, and in a way that they don't feel looked down on.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The big worry there is, people are quick to punish the majority of people for the actions of the few. Which is a seriously messed up mentality to have. Personally I care more about the millions that deserve the help than the few hundred that don't but managed to cheat the system and get it anyway. I care more that those millions are getting the help they need than I do that a very small number of people are abusing the system.

Meanwhile some seem to be so obsessed by these few people that slip through the cracks to abuse the system than the millions helped that are doing no wrong, ready and willing to burn everyone because of a few assholes.

a reply to: Puppylove

Well, that happens in all sorts of situations. A tiny handful of people do something, and groups start screaming about all sorts of imaginary dangers, issues, etc.

I worry as much about wasted money, and poor management, as I do about fraud. Any large government-run program is likely to have a lot of that. The bigger the program, the worse it gets.