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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Based on the last few responses I can see that very few are actually going to understand my point. This is to be expected of course ATS is after all a conspiracy forum and members like myself are in the minority. Walking in to a forum where most members believe in various conspiracies and trying to say there isn't one is never going to be popular or met with much agreement. That said however I had to get it off my chest because the level of ignorance being displayed at times is shocking
I have been closley following ISIS, even since before it became the new "Western backed" boggyman of ATS.
Based on the last few responses I can see that very few are actually going to understand my point. This is to be expected of course ATS is after all a conspiracy forum and members like myself are in the minority.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
In short you are not ever going to truly understand ISIS if you take the lazy approach to your research by dismissing it with yet another silly conspiracy in my oppinon.
From their essentially political position, the Kharijites developed extreme doctrines that further set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shiʿa Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach to Takfir.
originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Maybe I can give some Knowledge Here ,From a Different prospective ,For I am Muslim and ISIS is a big topic in our community.
ISIS First and foremost is an evil entity to the world and Islam . Their Ideology Is what we call "Khawarij"
From their essentially political position, the Kharijites developed extreme doctrines that further set them apart from both mainstream Sunni and Shiʿa Muslims. The Kharijites were particularly noted for adopting a radical approach to Takfir.
So in a nut shell they are driven by mostly Politics and not so much "religion" although they play on it as if they are doing it in the name of "Islam" and GOD .
This "Ideology" has been around since the Uthmān ibn ʿAffān caliph ( the 3rd caliph) and was also predicted by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) , That these types of groups will rise .
Also these "kharijites" are in Fact responsible for the Shi'a Sunni divide. "Kharijites" are the ones who actually killed Ali ibn talib,Thus ultimately causing divide.
I have learned Through my studies that these groups seem to arise during times of war and strife .
Their very survival depends on Bid'Ah ( innovation of religion and scripture ) to persuade the minds of lessor educated Muslims .
Example : Their is a Hadith (a collection of traditions containing sayings of the prophet Muhammad that, with accounts of his daily practice (the Sunna), constitute the major source of guidance for Muslims apart from the Koran.) That talks about a man who had an arrow shot through his neck during a battle . So he decided to face the enemy head on ultimately sacrificing hims self for the "cause".
In the minds of the "khuaraij" this means its ok to go and blow your self up! in a time of war ! ,When if fact the quran says the opposite, it says "do not kill your self " . They take this Hadith and innovate it to convince people tat its ok to go kill them selfs etc . and they do this with the Quran as well .
Basically its their own Interpretation of Scriptures and hadith . Allot of them also follow weak hadith (hadith that does not have a chain of narration that is traced back to the Shahaba or prophet Muhammad ) .
The problem is that they don't have Scholars within their ranks. Islamic "fiq" ( law) and Islamic hadith take years upon years of study to fully understand . But here we have within the ranks of ISIS these Supposed scholars making Rulings of pure deception and ignorance.
The very act of them establishing a Caliphate was wrong on all accounts and not in order of Islamic Fiq.
But their is also other entities at play within ISIS and that is outside support and Influence and it is widely known within the Muslim umma that ISIS is currently being used as a tool for other powers .
But they are real , they are Extreme , they are not of Islam and the quran and sunna .
Hope this helped you understand them a little more .
Kap
originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: TinfoilTP
Far fetched? Too screwy to be "true" ? I have no theory, nor am I trying to $ell You anything. It is as much "true" as anybody else's "theory"..
Why would You be concerned about My mental/physical health, it has zero bearing on how You go about the day.
You've stooped to making it personal, ergo "You win". You've must've had a "bad day" to be concerned about what someone You don't know (that You know of) has to type. Do You often give up Your power? I mean if You can 'lose it' over something I say/do what does that say about You? (rhetorical)
Have a better day.
originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Based on the last few responses I can see that very few are actually going to understand my point. This is to be expected of course ATS is after all a conspiracy forum and members like myself are in the minority. Walking in to a forum where most members believe in various conspiracies and trying to say there isn't one is never going to be popular or met with much agreement. That said however I had to get it off my chest because the level of ignorance being displayed at times is shocking
The "ISIS is backed by the west" theory is a story that is spread by the major current enemy of the Sunny extremists
originally posted by: fedeykin
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Be careful with what you read on the internet. The "ISIS is backed by the west" theory is a story that is spread by the major current enemy of the Sunny extremists - namely the Shiite militias backed by Iran.
However, there is a grain of truth in it. The CIA did fund training operations in Afghanistan during the war with the Soviet Union. This is a long time ago, so to say they are still doing this after all that has happened is foolish.
The other piece of truth to be found here is that Saudi Arabia (which is definitely backed by the west) is supporting Sunni militias around the middle east. It is quite possible that some of these funds, weapons, etc. find their way into the ranks of Al Qaeda and ISIS, as the lines between a lot of the Sunni groups are very blurry and this miasma of groupings makes it very difficult to understand all the relationships that are in play.
As it seems right now, you have a major war brewing in the region: The Sunnis backed by Saudi Arabia - vs - the Shiites backed by Iran. Don't believe the propaganda that is currently pervasive on the internet; well funded InfoOps are already being carried out by both sides.
Try to focus on facts, not on conjecture and buzzwords.
Oh... and don't forget: Saudi Arabia is backed directly by the USA, while Iran is backed directly by Russia. Maybe this is just the same old game that has been played since the end of WWII?
I like the reasoning you use about all these middle eastern feuds essentially being shades of the Cold War. It gives realistic insight to how the US is indirectly contributing to these extremist groups.
I'm not about all these theories that the US would intentionally piss in its own bed by direct funding terrorist groups bent on destroying us. The current situation is more along the lines of the aftermath of the Iraq-Iran War. The US funded Iraq to defeat Iran. They later came back later to use that same funding to invade Kuwait. Who knows? The US also funded Afghani rebels against Soviet invaders. How many of those same rebels eventually joined The Taliban/Al Qaeda?