How much does it cost to develop a system/console?

I am an original gamer. Usually when people say "I'm a gamer" they are talking some first person nonsense. I am one of the originals. I started on the great, GREAT c64.....I won't get into my story this isn't about that lol.
(I am still in my 20's btw,[barely]). I was one of the weird ones that knew the cord wasn't plugged in and win against the older brother.
I did all types of weird things like go on auto pilot and I found the 2nd flute on mario 3. Don't ask how.....That was magical.

After witnessing the real evolution of gaming, I have some great idea's(which I am sure all do because we are all GREAT!). People think its about graphics. That is the first thing companies boasts now days, which is not even in the top 5 things to consider. We had more fun with less and that is the proof that it is not about the graphics at all.
To make a long story short. The guys you call great would NOT be great if it wasn't for an original pioneer that went by the name SEGA. They completely changed the game all around. They talked with guess who, Microsoft and Sony to help them develop a revolutionary console. It never happened,some bad business ( on sega's part I believe ). The playstation was born, which was nothing short of incredible. But I believe it wouldn't have been great at all if Sega didn't show everyone what was in the treasure chest. If you guys don't know about the legacy of Sega go research it. Please if you are interested in games and you call yourself a game and most importantly if you haven't heard of them or don't know. The dreamcast is the greatest console to ever be made. Everytime they came around the pushed the bar further. It pushed the envelope and consider the time frame when you read some of the things they were able to introduced. I had a Sega CD btw. Incredible machine as well.


I think if Sega were around today, people would lose their damn minds and I am certain they would have figured out ways to incorporate this augmented reality and VR concept people are reaching for but don't seem to get it. But there are basic needs that aren't being met and online gaming should be revolutionary. Instead........Go look up what they were trying to do. I mean sony and micro don't even have the mascot(ish) character which is not cool. You need that branded type of dude im sorry. If your going to get into the business do it right. Look at the Sonic and Mario franchise. It is incredible and perhaps the greatest, most memorable game that any age group can enjoy.
Makes me want to kick up some dust on the school games and create a post or 2.

Now to the real reason of the post.

We need something, from the people, for the people. I feel like everything is a little to.....Like a plaid shirt. Look at how much they were free thinkers with side scrolling only. Just think, two games that are completely different Mario, and Mega man. Two incredible games and completely unique and creative.
That is what I want you guys to experience. It is a feeling that doesn't come around too much because the games aren't creative.
Once upon a time the games were so good you actually hummed the music when you weren't playing it or at least thinking about it. You don't believe me watch the magic. I know one song that touched everyone.
Starlight Zone-Sonic
How much money (an estimate) do you guys think is required to :
1. Develop a console (not to make one) I mean everything from scratch.
2.Maintain its run for like ( like how there was a big fuss over the xb1,and ps4......The bark is louder than the bite and it doesn't compare to the arrival of any of the systems, I would say before xbox, that was the last original)
3. Feel free to include any factors and elements I may be overlooking.


Also if you guys want to mention a thing or 2 about sega, or whatever feel free.
Fav games for dcast.
Marvel vs Capcom 1,2) Tokyo Extreme racer all of them) Onimusha 1,2) Winback) Powerstone)Chu chu rocket) NBA2k,2k1) Xenogears) RE : Code Veronica)aerowings(i think)
thats all I can think of right now.

Dreamcast was ahead of its time. And few people remember the Panasonic 3DO.

a reply to: Autorico

Throw Turbo Graphix 16 and Virtual Boy into the forgotten pile as well.

This site has a good comparison:
vgsales.wikia.com...

a reply to: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

Sega is still around.They just got out of the console business and currently work in publishing and development.

Your sense of nostalgia seems to revolve entirely around certain types of games you have played in the past. Why on earth would you need to develop a whole new console from scratch, when you could just develop the kind of games you want to play? That is a very difficult thing to do and certainly beyond the scope of a single individual.

If it's all about gameplay to you, and less about graphics, go download Unreal 4 (free game engine) and start making your own games the way you would like them to be made.

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Why are you so sharp? Someone took your parking spot lol.

I know sega is still around...They didn't get out of the console business they went under.
My sense of nostalgia comes from the experience itself. I could experience this with games about things I hate like sports and would still rule.
Create one from scratch because Microsoft and Sony are the plaid shirts I was speaking on. I think there needs to be a fourth contender. Not saying its me but why would I jump on a sinking ship to try to save it, when there are enough resources to build a million more. Why are we settling. I don't know if you know what I am talking about in my OP, but don't you remember the time when you had a choice. Now its like choose b1 or b2, damn it I want an A or a Q. I have certain ideas that would never flourish with those two large heads, it would take a smaller company to come in and ruffle the feathers.
I want to develop the experience my friend.
ty for the advice I will look into it.

a reply to: Autorico

Ah. I was fortunate enough to play the TG16 and even a few games on the original sega.
I played virtual boy at toys r us rofl. I never really knew anyone or anything that had one. That is the kind of out of the box thinking I am talking about though. It flopped hella hard but to me, its failure will be the catalyst for something else. I do remember the 3do that I never touched and the Jaguar.lol I love the names.

Video games are getting worse at getting better.

And what I mean by that is:

Better graphics, rehashed stories

New features, unnecessary new features

If you can brew a premium blend of old school gaming meets new school gaming, I will personally recommend you for the MOH.

We don't need another console. It would be utterly pointless. You know what the PS4 and Xbox One really are? PCs with slightly different variations of the same general hardware, the AMD Jaguar APU, with 8 cores @ 1.8GHz and a moderately powerful GCN architecture GPU. Otherwise, they're locked down to only games made for their respective platforms. You want to ruffle feathers? It's going to have to be through the PC, even if it has to be console-like, for example, the steam box. That's exactly what valve is doing, so what's going to need to happen is more support for games developed to run on Steam OS (Linux). Consoles will hate it.

There were plenty before Sega that we should remember and some of us were there...it started with Pong...simple but addictive and Atari had something special. Intellivision was my favorite when Mattel played in the game but also some great Arcade machine in the local stores.

There are developers out there with the same dreams you have, I have seen one on a site that raises money for projects called Cube which hasn't made a lot of noise but its hard to do when the giant have the money for advertisement and development. I agree that some of the best games I played had really bad graphics, GTA started as turned based game with really ugly graphics but was awesome on the Commodore Amiga, the most impressive computer I ever owned and I started with another simple one from Texas Instruments called the TI-994A.

It would be tough to develop a system against the likes of what is already available so your time and effort maybe be better spent, as well as your money, on developing the software. If its good the true gamer can dismiss bad graphics for great experience in play. Some of the most fascinating games I ever played had no graphics and were all strictly text...still out there and still hold up well.

a reply to: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

Do you have any background in programming? Hardware? Great funds backing you up? Or were you just consuming games the whole time without bothering to check what's under the hood?

I suspect you do have some knowledge, but how professional is it?

My humble advice to you is that if you don't know programming, then learn a computer language... That way you could build your own things by the end of the day, and that'll take you much faster to develop than a console.

Unless you know yourself as a genius, don't try to reinvent the wheel. Honestly it's difficult and it's much easier to build things with tools that already exist and previously built and thoroughly tested. And Google is your friend in this case.

a reply to: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

It'll cost considerably more than developing the game on PC and releasing it to the indie scene. It doesn't matter what kind of garbage you're shoveling up there, people come in droves for that crap.

For me Nintendo were the deal breakers.

Obviously the NES was brilliant and the original Gameboy was revolutionary BUT...

The biggest most amazing thing Nintendo did was use brilliant humour and deep, deep character building techniques. For example - Zelda, A Link to The Past - I think I actually fell in love with characters in that game.

Amstrad CPC464 is where it all started for me. Now I look around and see games with a hundred controls, a million buttons, 3d worlds - but like you say, it's all about walking around and shooting people - may aswell play Goldeneye for the 64.

a reply to: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

Depends on the console and associated specifications. Although you can probably be sure given the fact that the new PS4/Xbox1 are based on the x86 architecture that both Sony and Microsoft has somewhat of a head start on the current iteration.

As a game dev I can tell you that its not about consoles these days at all, long gone are the awesome days of commodore, and spectrum, atari and the likes, I remember programming games when i was a kid with obscene amounts of code in pascal, blissfully annoying.
you're both right and wrong about games and consoles these days, there is a push to render as many polygons on screen as possible, giving that feeling of dynamic environments and the likes, but lets not forget the absolutely massive indie games scene which has literally blown up these past few years. With the arrival of construct 2, unity 4,5, udk, unreal 4, most of which are free or very cheap, there is a ridiculous influx of new games, new experiences and new ways to get things done. If you want to develop some nostalgic game, forget about the console, as stated by another member here, consoles are just rehashed pc's, focusing on gpu's. Every game ever made is made for pc then ported to the desired console, so go from there! download a copy of unreal 4 if youre interested in c++ (although it now has c# capabilities) or get unity if you want to use c#, boo, or java. It's daunting at first but with some integrity anyone can make games these days! and also compile them for your desired console. bomberjack 2015 anyone?

a reply to: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

Create one from scratch because Microsoft and Sony are the plaid shirts I was speaking on. I think there needs to be a fourth contender. Not saying its me but why would I jump on a sinking ship to try to save it, when there are enough resources to build a million more.

Well, supposedly there will be another contender. Valve is currently working on it's own console, so if they ever get it out the door it could potentially add another one to the market.

I still contend it's pointless, though. You can have all the consoles on the market that you want. It doesn't really matter when the games are all developed the same way (on computers). If it's a certain kind of gaming experience you are pining for, a new console isn't going to grant you that. It's the game developers you should be focusing on. There are lots of indie companies out there that are trying to accomplish what you are talking about. They are attempting to break away from the current business model of shiny high end graphics at the cost of fun. Maybe you could check out some indie titles for a breath of fresh air?

Alternatively, you could try learning to code or learning the art side of the development process, and find like minded individuals and try to make your own game. If it did well enough, you could set up your own game development company that focuses on making the types of games you want to see. But that is much more difficult than it sounds.

However, it's never been easier than it is today with high end engines out there for free (you just pay a royalty percentage if your game starts selling over a certain amount of money), and some teams work over the internet without ever meeting in person. There's never been a better time to be an indie developer, really.

First I just want to sincerely thank everyone for the honest post. I really appreciate the feedback. It is a great feeling to be around the better side of ATS. You guys are nothing less than great.

I really want you guys to understand what I mean by the experience. When I say Nintendo I don't just think of the game Mario Bros., I think about how all of the games seem to be related. The music, color, the whole experience itself is unique. Well at least they did at one point. You guys are convinced that their is only one way to represent or to capture the experience and this is not true. No one is doing anything unique. I just see the same thing over and over. For example look at the piece designed for the Jaguar, the number pad overlay thingy. Imagine if all games came with a different 'card'. That was unique and very original.That would enhance the gaming experience.

rockintitz : You are full of awesomeness. I totally agree. Maybe I am getting old, lol I usually can get these things wth is MOH.

DJMSN : You say that there are many with the same dreams,that is great now we just need a platform/medium to come together which is the net, the glue would be the fact we all have the same desire. I'd give it 5 years at the max before we are introduced to games from a different perspective. I am going to check this 'Cube' out, it sounds interesting. It has that ring that I spoke of in the OP. The Cube sounds like a true console in that sense.
I didn't know that about GTA. I am one of the fortunate people to have played the first two. Yeah, the weird ones where you could fart and burp on people and the crazy overhead view. I actually rented them. Funny, that is a dead concept. Staring at empty game boxes for hours before yo make your great decision. You really killed it when you said text based games. Your imagination goes crazy when you play those. There are greatest games with less. Even 8 bit music rules in 2015!


Aldakoopa : That is not true and you kind of proved my point. PS4 and XB1 are miniature pc's with an emphasis on on all around entertainment. Look at who are producing them. That is cool, but it really divides the focus of the original concept. However, I do partially agree with you. Steam is revolutionary. Consoles may need something to hate so people can actually go back to work.

Shuye : I do not have a bg in programming. I have basic knowledge of hardware. I was consuming games and equally intrigued with 'whats under the hood'. You are absolutely correct, I have to learn a language if I want this to become a reality. I am not trying to reinvent the wheel, I just have some really cutting edge ideas. They aren't limited just to game play, but how the game is played and the entire experience can be revolutionized. See I don't have great funds but the one thing I have are creative ideas. I believe that alone is greater than anything. That is how every single concept for any console was conceived.

SpongeBread : I literally laughed out loud at your post. That is the people I want to reach. The self inventor is a myth and if your not a big corporation people get intimidated and that is an illusion. Everything started on a good idea that matched a need for the people. Look at the original walmart compared to now. Now I am not saying you have to become a monster though.

and 14263 : Sigh. You struck a soft spot. Zelda - A link to the past is incredible ALL AROUND. Thu music is incredible and flawless. I agree with you 100%. Link is a character/concept that will last. And these games still can't top GE for the 64 because it original.

pr0ph3t : I had no knowledge of unreal. Someone within the first hand full of post recommended it and I checked out about an hours worth of information and I was blown away. Is unreal free. You are the second person to say that but I didn't get that when I looked it up. It is absolutely nothing short of perfection.

DeadSeraph : I see where your coming from. The only point I would like to stress is the idea of creating a realm where a certain level of gameplay is expected all around. You just know when you say nintendo you aren't going to find too many game like Metal Gear Solid(bad example since they created the original which is a classic), or Resident Evil. That type of experience doesn't exist within the modern Nintendo paradigm. I really, really agree with you 2nd and 3rd paragraph. You are right. But we shouldn't limit our experience. Are you pleased with the Xbox and PS3/4 really? Compared to what people used to do when they released their next console.

I understand you guys and I thank you for you comments. I truly respect your feedback. I am just not pleased with how it started and where it is at. We have wonderful tools and the elements to make really great games but..... I fully understand things evolve but the integrity should remain the same. They lost focus. Now you have good looking game with very dumb stories that you forget once you go get dinner and log back on. The companies are focusing on utilizing the power rather than creating a great experience.
What if when the next wave of consoles came out, Sega decided to release one also. You guys are like, well they are all the same, and that is true and that is the issue. I imagine they would release quality unique games and not just try to capitalize and force feed you games that makes absolutely no sense. The boundaries would be in place within its realm. That is all I am looking for. I wish I could go into detail but I don't want to spill any beans. But I feel like these companies aren't even using the concept of gamer profiles, gamertags, and online gaming the correct way. I fell like they are English teachers trying really hard to teach a class about mineralogy. It is not going to work....
Peace to my ATS family.

a reply to: AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS

I am building a console, actually the prototype is basically finished. It's revolutionary in that it runs Virtual Machines on top of a hypervisor. It runs VMware Esxi on the bare metal, and passes through the USB & GPU (Nvidia Quadro) to the VM's. This means you have full access to the graphics hardware, but with all the advantages and flexibility of virtual machines. It runs SteamOS, Win7 (or 8 or 10 or whatever the next one is), and Android X86 KitKat.

The selection of the running Virtual Machine is from the controller, which is currently an XBOX 360 controller with an Android Phone attached. The phone runs a menu APP that I wrote, allowing you to start your selected game system, revert to snapshots, or install a new one - all from the couch.

The cell phone touchscreen serves as the mouse & keyboard in any of the VM's, but also accepts any USB device (such as game pads, or a trackball, or real keyboard) in the USB OTG port. The menu is displayed on your TV, until you boot a VM, then it switches to first the text mode ( with access to the bios of the VM, or if you get stuck in "startup repair") and then the full 1080 screen.

Future development of the controller will eliminate the XBOX controller and have the phone central in an integrated package. This will utilize the phone hardware more fully, such as:

Accelerometer/tilt
vibrator
Cameras
proximity
GPS?
Temp?
Use the screen as supplemental display in games
Headphone jack
Stream games from the console to the controller

Maybe different controllers for specific games. If it takes off, the hardware present in a cell phone could be integrated into game development and utilize the camera, screen etc IN GAME.

So this would be a box that bridges the gap in the SteamBox model, no need for streaming from another machine to access your Windows games. A seamless migration while we wait for the promised Linux games. Plus, you can play Android games on it, as well as any other x86 OS. ( I have gotten MacOS running on this platform)

And it's OPEN SOURCE. I have build instructions posted HERE:
Hydra Gaming Console & Controller

As to your question regarding cost, the system is build with off-the-shelf parts totaling ± $550. Of course there's stuff I bought during development that ended up being a mistake - so make that like $1200. And it's not "finished", I still need to further develop the controller, though what I have now is a PLAYABLE system. It's taken a couple of years to get to this point, so untold hours are included. Although I am freely posting build instructions, it's quite complicated and most would not want to try. I would expect a finished system to retail for ± $800, which allows for building, testing, shipping, and some level of post sales support - which I certainly think has some value.

So building the initial prototype is relatively inexpensive, requires more dedication than anything. Now I find I am at the difficult stage.