Indiana Gov. Mike Pence signs controversial 'religious freedom' bill

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

You can't make a law that forces people to like other people.

Nope. But we can make laws that protect the right to equal treatment. They're called Civil Rights and Congress was so intent on forcing people to behave civilly that they wrote "The Civil Rights Act". Everyone in the USA is under its jurisdiction, except those who profess religion, now, because of hatred for gays.

If folks want equality, they should act like everyone else. They shouldn't expect special treatment because they belong to some group that has suffered discrimination in the past.

Let's force them "Indians" to go to White Man School.

Equal Rights is not about different cultures.

That's not at all what I meant but you seem to enjoy twisting my words.

My policy is "live and let live." Your policy seems to be "force everyone to get along." It's a facade that obviously isn't working because, as you've pointed out, racism still exists.

Establishing protected classes just further drives the wedge of bigotry.

This is what you said:

If folks want equality, they should act like everyone else.

They shouldn't expect special treatment because they belong to some group that has suffered discrimination in the past.

Who is everyone else? You don't seem to understand just how prejudice that statement is.

The "Special Group" in this discussion is Religion. But, you don't seem to be able to comprehend that.

There is no "Special Group" in a business serving all customers equally.

You interpreted what I said as "those people should just act like white Americans." What I meant was "they should not act like they're special because of their race, gender, sexual preference, or heritage." Equality is equality, it's not "I deserve this because I'm a woman/gay/native american/etc. etc."

I brought up special groups in the context of Civil Rights violations and equality. It was a side-issue.

I'm comprehending things just fine and, for the umpteenth time, I'm not specifically talking about or supporting this particular law. I'm talking about the principles of the law i.e. government telling people how to behave. If you'd stop foaming at the mouth and selectively quoting my posts, you might actually comprehend some of what I've posted.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Answer
Establishing protected classes just further drives the wedge of bigotry.

You mean like creating the special class of "Religious Bigots" who are protected from having to abide by certain laws because how they choose to interpret the words written down in a book by some 2000 year old superstitious goat herders???

Those protected classes???

Yah, I hate those special groups too. Always complaining because they aren't allowed to special privileges to act in ways that nobody else is allowed to act.

Try reading. I'm not talking about this specific law. I'm talking about the laws in general. I've already said that I think this law is crap but I agree with the premise of the law... that government shouldn't have a say in who a business chooses to serve.

originally posted by: Answer
Try reading. I'm not talking about this specific law. I'm talking about the laws in general. I've already said that I think this law is crap but I agree with the premise of the law... that government shouldn't have a say in who a business chooses to serve.

I read just fine thanx. Try listening to others for once.

The business chose to serve the public not the government. If they didn't want to serve "The Public" in all it's various forms then they should have a members only business and not one open to "The Public". I'm sure you're aware that there are business like that, yes??

If you don't want to serve "The Public" then don't. But you can't have it both ways.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

You can't make a law that forces people to like other people.

Nope. But we can make laws that protect the right to equal treatment. They're called Civil Rights and Congress was so intent on forcing people to behave civilly that they wrote "The Civil Rights Act". Everyone in the USA is under its jurisdiction, except those who profess religion, now, because of hatred for gays.

If folks want equality, they should act like everyone else. They shouldn't expect special treatment because they belong to some group that has suffered discrimination in the past.

Let's force them "Indians" to go to White Man School.

Equal Rights is not about different cultures.

That's not at all what I meant but you seem to enjoy twisting my words.

My policy is "live and let live." Your policy seems to be "force everyone to get along." It's a facade that obviously isn't working because, as you've pointed out, racism still exists.

Establishing protected classes just further drives the wedge of bigotry.

This is what you said:

If folks want equality, they should act like everyone else.

They shouldn't expect special treatment because they belong to some group that has suffered discrimination in the past.

Who is everyone else? You don't seem to understand just how prejudice that statement is.

The "Special Group" in this discussion is Religion. But, you don't seem to be able to comprehend that.

There is no "Special Group" in a business serving all customers equally.

You interpreted what I said as "those people should just act like white Americans."

Actually, my thoughts were on the movie, "Rabbit Proof Fence".

What I meant was "they should not act like they're special because of their race, gender, sexual preference, or heritage."

They're people. Just people.

The only group trying to pull "Special" are the religious.

originally posted by: Annee


They're people. Just people.

The only group trying to pull "Special" are the religious.

With this particular law, yes, but we both know that's not true in general.

a reply to: Answer

You and Annee should stop making assumptions about me. I'm an atheist, genius. Just because I don't share your viewpoint does not mean I fit into some convenient box you use for people who oppose you.

You seem to think that people who don't agree with you are attacking you

:-)

I made no assumptions about you, your beliefs or your character

I just don't agree with your position

This law is a mistake. You think that the market is going to regulate human behavior - I disagree

Maybe we'll meet up in another thread where we can agree on everything and you won't have to feel so defensive

Genius

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Answer
Try reading. I'm not talking about this specific law. I'm talking about the laws in general. I've already said that I think this law is crap but I agree with the premise of the law... that government shouldn't have a say in who a business chooses to serve.

I read just fine thanx. Try listening to others for once.

The business chose to serve the public not the government. If they didn't want to serve "The Public" in all it's various forms then they should have a members only business and not one open to "The Public". I'm sure you're aware that there are business like that, yes??

If you don't want to serve "The Public" then don't. But you can't have it both ways.

So you'd rather see these racists and homophobes prosper because of a government-forced "play nice" rule instead of showing their true nature and going out of business?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

People can choose where to spend their money and I'd much rather it go to people who are genuinely tolerant. This law may protect the business owners from legal action but it certainly won't protect them from the backlash caused by their bigotry.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: Annee


They're people. Just people.

The only group trying to pull "Special" are the religious.

With this particular law, yes, but we both know that's not true in general.

WHAT? Are you trying to throw stereotypes at me?

There could be 100 people standing around --- and maybe one person brings attention to themselves. Guess what flashes all over the media.

People are just People. It is the Religious who created the law giving them Special Rights to discriminate.

originally posted by: Answer

With this particular law, yes, but we both know that's not true in general.

Yes this particular law. You know, the law that this entire thread is about and the law that these 7 pages worth of text have been talking about.

Who's the one who needs to "try reading" now???

WTF law are you talking about then if it's not the topic of this thread???

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Answer

You seem to think that people who don't agree with you are attacking you

:-)

Right. Ending your post with this:

"Should we be free to beat someone if we believe that person falls outside of God's grace?

Should we be able to stone them - if our religion tells us to?"

was not an attempt to paint me with your chosen brush?

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Answer

With this particular law, yes, but we both know that's not true in general.

Yes this particular law. You know, the law that this entire thread is about and the law that these 7 pages worth of text have been talking about.

Who's the one who needs to "try reading" now???

WTF law are you talking about then if it's not the topic of this thread???

You're coming into the middle of a discussion and offering your opinion when you don't understand the context.

originally posted by: Answer

So you'd rather see these racists and homophobes prosper because of a government-forced "play nice" rule instead of showing their true nature and going out of business?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

People can choose where to spend their money and I'd much rather it go to people who are genuinely tolerant. This law may protect the business owners from legal action but it certainly won't protect them from the backlash caused by their bigotry.

It's none of my business to go around judging people and deciding based on their personality choices if they prosper in business or not. If that is your argument then just admit that you're the one trying to push certain morality on people. It's you who want to decide if a business lives or dies for those reasons not everyone else.

When I go to a business to purchase something or take part in a transaction I'm not there to do anything else but that. I don't need someone judging me or trying to figure out who I am as a person, nor am I there to do that to them. My money is as good as the next guys so there is no reason not to take it.

You keep saying live and let live and all that sh*t but you're full of it. You are the one pushing your own ideology not everyone else. This isn't about People and their feelings anyway, it's about conducting business. When I conduct business I don't need to waste time with your personal issues. Leave that stuff at home and just do your damn job. Why is that so hard. Anyone who worked for me who decides to get personal with customers or staff is out on their ass. It's a place of business not some freaking group meeting or 12 step program.

I think the poster is talking (misinterpreting) about 'persons being gay'.

Not the subject of the law.

a reply to: mOjOm

# 404

originally posted by: TheWhiteKnight
I think she's talking about persons being gay.
Usually

a reply to: mOjOm

# 404

Ya think?

a reply to: Answer

No, I've been reading this stupid thread and I've participated in countless others. I understand your supposed argument and your solution to the problem however I don't agree with you. I see what you're saying. I simply disagree. I'm not even saying that your idea is all that incorrect in principle however in reality if what you say actually worked we wouldn't have needed the Discrimination Laws in the first place.

You expect people to gather together and stand up to these people and drive them out of business etc. right???

Guess what, they did that already and at the end of it they made laws so that people wouldn't have to riot and die and kill and march etc. again and again and again. You think people are more enlightened now than then??? You're nuts. They aren't. This legislation and the news proves that every single day.

a reply to: Answer

Back when you and I first interacted in this thread I asked you a simple, honest question. Your reply was - not polite

The question was the thing - and the only thing

What are laws for? Why is whites only no longer acceptable? Was it wrong to tamper with all that? Should we go back to those times?

Try to pretend that I'm not attacking you and just answer the question

Please

originally posted by: TheWhiteKnight
I think the poster is talking (misinterpreting) about 'persons being gay'.

Not the subject of the law.

a reply to: mOjOm

# 404

Is answer a "she"???

BTW, I wasn't really asking what law it was they were talking about. It wasn't meant to be taken literally.

a reply to: mOjOm

And there's 23 more of these religious discrimination bills from various states already filed.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Answer

So you'd rather see these racists and homophobes prosper because of a government-forced "play nice" rule instead of showing their true nature and going out of business?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

People can choose where to spend their money and I'd much rather it go to people who are genuinely tolerant. This law may protect the business owners from legal action but it certainly won't protect them from the backlash caused by their bigotry.

It's none of my business to go around judging people and deciding based on their personality choices if they prosper in business or not. If that is your argument then just admit that you're the one trying to push certain morality on people.

What? We're talking about business owners who discriminate and refuse to do business with certain people... what thread have you been reading?

When I go to a business to purchase something or take part in a transaction I'm not there to do anything else but that. I don't need someone judging me or trying to figure out who I am as a person, nor am I there to do that to them. My money is as good as the next guys so there is no reason not to take it.

Correct... Were you trying to make a point?

You keep saying live and let live and all that sh*t but you're full of it. You are the one pushing your own ideology not everyone else. This isn't about People and their feelings anyway, it's about conducting business. When I conduct business I don't need to waste time with your personal issues. Leave that stuff at home and just do your damn job. Why is that so hard. Anyone who worked for me who decides to get personal with customers or staff is out on their ass. It's a place of business not some freaking group meeting or 12 step program.

I think you have vastly misinterpreted the argument...

Government should not be involved in keeping racists and homophobes in check. The principle idea of this law is "these businesses can do what they want" and that's what I agree with. I do not agree with the religious angle of the law, at all.

If a business owner wants to put a sign on the door that says "straight white people, only" they should be able to do that so everyone knows exactly where they stand. Let them do it and watch them fail. The businesses that aren't run by dumbasses will continue to prosper while the rest go broke.

a reply to: Answer

I understand the discussion, but again, thanx for asking.

The difference is I'm separating what a "person" does and what a "business" does. People are free to act and think and be bigots all damn day, I don't care. But not a business. A business has no feeling or beliefs. It's there to conduct business which only needs to abide by a small list of rules usually. The problem is you aren't seeing the various ways in which discrimination in business is harmful for business. Screw people and their feeling for just a second ok.

If I send my employee to purchase something somewhere, I don't need to worry about if they will do business with him because he's gay or black or whatever. Business shouldn't be about peoples personal lives. It's about doing business. Either you want to do that or you want to preach to the world what your opinions and beliefs are. If that is what you want to do, don't start a business, start a church. Let the business world operate without anyone's personal choices getting in the way.