BREAKING: Co-Pilot intentional crashed plane. Co Pilot Named

a reply to: waveydavey

He could have had a stroke or other brain issues or a heart attack and still could have been breathing normal.....This might not be what it looks like on the surface.



Hopefully they have more ways of seeing the facts on this one.

originally posted by: Vaedur
a reply to: AdamuBureido
I think you posted the second picture twice.

thanks

Too many people are jumping to quick conclusions. A suicidal co-pilot would hardly go into a controlled descent that lasted for 8 minutes. Something still doesn't add up.

the most striking thing so far, to me, is the speed with which the voice recorder details were released.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Unrelated question to your post that I am replying to; Does the cockpit have an avionics access door in the floor that is connected to possibly a galley floor access door through the forward part of the fuselage? It might be a moot question, simply because I would expect the avionic access door locks from inside the cockpit. I don't know if the doors can open from the underside of the floor, but if they can, isn't that an access route to the cockpit bypassing the main cockpit door?

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: Hendrick99

That is the claim by the main stream. I hesitate to believe they would tell us all the secret security measures they employ as a general rule.

I don't really know what happened, just reported what I heard in the main stream.

I tend to agree with the consensus based on what they have revealed, though.

There are 'loose' ends… How come dude didn't push the stick home, bringing it down as quick as possible? That tends to preclude most efforts to intervene in the cockpit.

Unless he was trying to do it quietly so not to rile the passengers. But what does he care if he's about to murder all of them? They might have tried to rush the cabin a la flight 93 if they though they were descending too rapidly. Which begs the question, how come the pilot didn't elicit their help? Surely burly guys were aboard, maybe stronger than him? With all that racket, how come they didn't get involved? Maybe they did, how come we haven't heard about it?

The AirBus 320 is a 'Nanny plane' (flies itself), maybe dude was psyching out the planes computer, the pilot and the passengers, all allowing him to descend in a safe manner without intervening, until the last moment when it was too late?

Dunno, random thoughts…

a reply to: Ivar_Karlsen



not to derail the post , and like I said I doubt it occurred with this situation for many reasons, but its certainly not impossible.

The possibilities are endless hence the danger of purposely designed hardware back doors. A hardware backdoor could act as a mesh network or sit their passive until a signal is received which could cause it to shut-down along with the redundant backup systems.

Or it could provide bogus information that makes the system do unintended things but unnoticeable perhaps like GPS spoofing causing it to land in wrong gps coordinates like they have done with drones.

First you would have to locate it, then connect to it (how and with what?)

Why do you have to locate it? I'm not suggesting a specific device. the hardware backdoor are at the chip level which are throughout the plane. Its possible that all you would need to do is be on the plane or near the plane to send some type of signal or erroneous data .

never mind, found the answer bulitz

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: waveydavey

He could have had a stroke or other brain issues or a heart attack and still could have been breathing normal.....This might not be what it looks like on the surface.

Hopefully they have more ways of seeing the facts on this one.

Maybe they should start putting DVR's that can't be turned off in the cockpit and passenger areas. With the cheap cost of solid state memory these days, they could store 8 to 10 hrs per camera and use it like the CVR's and DFDR's. We've seen suicide by cop and many of them are starting to wear body cam's, if this is suicide by pilot, might be an idea. I don't like the video intrusion any more than anyone else, but these pilots are in control of hundreds of millions of dollars in equipment and potentially responsible for hundreds of lives. Just a thought....

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: intrptr

According to something I heard this morning. All he would have to do is turn a dial a bit to make it go into a slow descent which eventually crashed it.

Maybe he was suffering a psychotic episode and was hallucinating or something, but was otherwise checked out of normal reality?

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

I'd like to see what he was actually doing. They were at cruising altitude and on autopilot presumably. Maybe he had on head phones, was listening to loud music and dozing?

The reason I say that is the plane made a normal decent, not a crash dive. If dude was suicidal why didn't he put the plane into a vertical nose dive and get to the ground as quick as possible?

The only solution I come up with is he wasn't conscious for some reason, like suicide maybe. Are there firearms in the crew cabin?

Completely agree with this statement. I also see it is being reported that crew can only not get into the cockpit if it is locked from inside. How exact is that statement? I have a lot of experience with locks in recent years (construction so admittedly different) but sometimes.......locks just stop working. It could be poor construction, faulty parts, etc. Is this not possible in this scenario? Is it definite that the co-pilot deliberately kept the pilot out?

coupled with the fact that the co pilot pushed the button that caused the decent( info in the main thread) I would say yes.. reports are that he suffered from depression, thats why he took a break from flying at some point (also in the main original thread)

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4
the most striking thing so far, to me, is the speed with which the voice recorder details were released.

Yep, they have released the recordings to the press pretty fast...

Another thing that baffles me is why they authorities are still withholding the captain's full name, whilst the co-pilots name has been released.

The Captain The captain's name has not been released yet, but German media outlets have identified him as Patrick S., a father of two. He'd reportedly logged more than 6,000 hours of flight experience over his 10 year career with Lufthansa, Germanwings, and Condor airlines.
www.telegraph.co.uk... light-4U9525.html" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">The Telegraph

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Pretty much all the large jets I worked on had one, and as far as I know they still do. You used to be able to open a hatch under the nose on the ground and climb up into the cockpit that way.

Some have access points at other places as well. I don't know about the A320 specifically though.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: waveydavey

He could have had a stroke or other brain issues or a heart attack and still could have been breathing normal.....This might not be what it looks like on the surface.



Hopefully they have more ways of seeing the facts on this one.

He deliberately toggled the door switch to "deny" at least twice in the 9 minutes presuming the deny setting was left at its default of 5 minutes. Its default is 5 minutes from the manufacturer but can be increased in increments of 5 minutes up to a maximum of 20 minutes but the increments can only be set on the ground by a technician. Most airlines will leave it as default.

What this means is that when the pilot entered the door code to re-enter the cockpit and the 5 second buzzer sounded, the person in the cockpit (in this case the co-pilot in the right hand seat) would have to reach down to the centre console or above his head (depending on the option the airline chose) to toggle a switch to the deny position and hold it there for at least 1 second. This would completely lock the door for a minimum of 5 minutes.

Clearly this action has to be very deliberate and would require a high level of consideration on the part of the co-pilot. There is no way this individual was incapacitated in any way.

People really don't appear to understand depression.

It can be all-encompassing. It can be subtle and long-lasting. And it can be brief and brutal. It rarely just goes away and often if it does, it can return as a whisper that you don't really hear or like a thundering avalanche of misery and despair.

His thoughts were his own and as a pilot, I suspect he couldn't resist some intangible desire to go down in a plane.

Selfish? Yes. Most suicides fall into that reign, but are unintentional because it's not generally a conscious decision to harm others as much as it is a very personal choice that simply eclipses the ability to see the bigger picture.

He could have seen himself as "sparing" those passengers the pain of life.
Perhaps he considered that their loss would surely make their families wealthy in return.
He may have merely dis-associated from the other lives on the plane, seeing them as lost souls already.
It could have ventured into "They don't care about me, why should I care about them?"

Irregardless of the speculations in this situation, if depression was at the helm, he was likely focused heavily upon his own despair and it only takes a moment to throw it all away.

I've had to post on numerous suicide threads to educate others with the intent of tossing themselves in front of a train. It's way too common and many a train engineer gets to experience that in their careers. Suicidal people simply don't realize how it affects those around them in that brief time-slot of misery.

Personally, I've tried to make a commitment to myself to make sure that if I ever actually go there, it would be in a way that doesn't involve others.

But, that doesn't make those buses look less inviting.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Some have access points at other places as well. I don't know about the A320 specifically though.

There is simply no way to access the A320 cockpit other than through the door, no floor panels at all. There is the emergency egress hatch on the cockpit door but this can only be opened from the inside.

For anyone interested, the A320 operating manual:
nicmosis.as.arizona.edu:8000...

originally posted by: interupt42

Or it could provide bogus information that makes the system do unintended things but unnoticeable perhaps like GPS spoofing causing it to land in wrong gps coordinates like they have done with drones.

Can't be done in a modern airliner.
The GPS would be voted out, and the FMS would revert to ground based navigation and gyros.
The pilots would know about it right away.

originally posted by: AllIsOne
Too many people are jumping to quick conclusions. A suicidal co-pilot would hardly go into a controlled descent that lasted for 8 minutes. Something still doesn't add up.

How do you know what was going through the mind of a suicidal pilot?

That sounds a lot like jumping to quick conclusions.

originally posted by: Answer

originally posted by: AllIsOne
Too many people are jumping to quick conclusions. A suicidal co-pilot would hardly go into a controlled descent that lasted for 8 minutes. Something still doesn't add up.

How do you know what was going through the mind of a suicidal pilot?

That sounds a lot like jumping to quick conclusions.

I know, the official story is always right. Sorry for questioning it ;-)

I used to fly a lot and was always unimpressed with the flimsy looking doors to the cockpit. Was that door different? When my life is on the line I think, with the help of others, I'd be able to get through that door.