Okay, are you willing to die for Russia and Putin, are you

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Unless Ukraine invited them in (and I don't think that happened) then they invaded.

Crimeans having voted in `91 being independent, they were autonomous and having every right to reject an illegal government...

...and the same goes for Eastern Ukraine, they also have voted in the early 90s for independence.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Shiloh7

Invaded or were welcomed in? I rather fancy it was welcomed in because so many of the people there speak Russian and voted to stay Russian.

Unless Ukraine invited them in (and I don't think that happened) then they invaded.

Better yet Putin has admitted to sending armed troops without insignias for the purpose of annexing Crimea...which was already decided before the referendun was done.

What bothers me is that the USA and UK (hands up but not my politics) have been invading countries since the Gulf with the most deplorable record imaginable.

I rather fancy it as being invited...see it is the same since you think Russia was invited to invade a sovereign country the same argument can be used for what the US did. The difference is the US leaves, and does not annex any part of the country they go into...something Russia can't say.

the ordinary folk trying to live their lives peacefully in the debris left behind with Western war mongering

I guess you forgot about this...

Chechnya after Russia...

But it is easier to say the US does all the bad...right?

I couldn't agree more.

America isn't trying to expand its borders at the tip of a sword.

There a country doing this though...hint, it is russia.

Also when we bomb a country it doesn't look like a fire bombing from WW2 just happened, and we rebuild its infrastructure etc.....

Even going as far as to upgrade its military withodern american equipment.

Sure our foreign policy isn't perfect, but compared to Russia's.....lol ours looks pretty damned good.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

That might hold some weight had Putin not already admitted to sending troops to Crimea for the sole reason of annexation.

There were only 11.000 at the given time, so yes, he has send in the remaining of what was allowed + dressed up local defence units with army gear stored in the military bases.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Crimeans having voted in `91 being independent, they were autonomous and having every right to reject an illegal government...

Autonomous yes, but still Ukrainian.

Autonomy doesn't make them another country.

An autonomous republic is a type of administrative division similar to a province or state

en.wikipedia.org...

They were still under the rule of the country of Ukraine...something you keep seeming to forget.

...and the same goes for Eastern Ukraine, they also have voted in the early 90s for independence.

Yep from Russia not Ukraine.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Both of them got simply ignored back then.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

There were only 11.000 at the given time, so yes, he has send in the remaining of what was allowed + dressed up local defence units with army gear stored in the military bases.

Keep trying to pad your stance...Putin already spilled the beans, and it doesn't match your version.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Both of them got simply ignored back then.

You really can't be that bad that you think they voted to leave Ukraine in 91 are you?

That vote was to leave Russia, but feel free to provide anything that says Crimea and the East voted in 91 to leave Ukraine.

Here you might want to read the Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine...

zakon4.rada.gov.ua...

I think if it ever comes to that, alot of people wont think twice about picking up a gun and joining the fight, jobs are scarce and money is scarce and that will make alot of people want to sign up, sadly they will be the frontline casualties.

a reply to: dollukka

Putin is Russia's version of a moderate. Thank you lucky stars on that,or WW3 would already be going if others in the country had their say.

a reply to: johnwick

Also when we bomb a country it doesn't look like a fire bombing from WW2 just happened, and we rebuild its infrastructure etc.....

LOL Your a very funny person!! No really.

You should go live in Libya or Iraq and be a comedian there.

a reply to: Dimithae
There are much more moderated people in Russia than Putin the Tzar as people call him there is. Sadly, those moderate people have been silenced!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

How could they vote to leave Russia in '91 if they weren't a part of Russia?

belfercenter.ksg.harvard.edu...

On May 5, 1992 the Crimean parliament declared its independence, and on May 6, 1992, it voted for a Constitution establishing the independence and providing dual citizenship with Russia for the Crimean population. Also, the Crimean parliament passed a resolution calling for a referendum on independence from Ukraine.

sounds to me like they wanted to leave all along. Interesting article.Both pro and con

a reply to: dollukka

Maybe to you there are. To Russians,no

Not for any one of them. They are all criminals and their real job is as employees of their collective boss, the people, to uphold their rights and freedoms, equalize goods and services, without strings attached that take away freedoms, ensure land and resources, seeds of the earth belong to all, encourage cottage industries and reveal all clean and advanced technologies, stop trying to dictate what people do or grow on their own land or how many cottages they want to erect for their children, and basically SERVE ON BENDED KNEE the well being of all. And look out for the little guys, and instead of following bankers and elite orders, arrest those making threats to them, and actually do their job, empower the people councils of citizens to be able to fire them and oversee all their and judges decisions and overturn them easily.

And get rid of money and real estate agents, provide opportunities for all people to take courses and contribute and volunteer, in a non competitive and highly beneficial to all system.

Otherwise they're rogue and illegal agents that need to be arrested on sight.

Don't fight any of their wars.

Even while i say this, there are police efforts that a Good and Positive UN would call, like Isil terrorists hijacking cities, where good police would go in and stop it immediately and rescue the citizens.

But they wouldn't go bombing the cities and killing the hostages to stop the bad guys, like the US/UK and its associates do.

If they start this war, however, going to put up a picture of Putin on my house and say, I AM NOT AT WAR WITH HIM, DENOUNCE THE SATANIC ELITES PLANS FOR EARTH AND STOP GOING TO WAR FOR THE BANKERS!!!!!

originally posted by: Dimithae
a reply to: dollukka

Putin is Russia's version of a moderate. Thank you lucky stars on that,or WW3 would already be going if others in the country had their say.

After reading about the inner workings of Russian politics it reminded me of another story I read.

They seem like the sith from starwars.

Not necessarily evil, just very good at manipulations and leverage over others in secret deals and plots that mostly never see the light of day.

An american politician would lose on day one.

A long time senior american politician like Hillary would make it to day 2.

a reply to: johnwick

Willing to bet we have more.



Pics from Iraq and Libya would disprove that.

a reply to: crazyewok

I'm kind of stupid with matters of commerse ,but didn't England just join the Chinese banking system?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

There were only 11.000 at the given time, so yes, he has send in the remaining of what was allowed + dressed up local defence units with army gear stored in the military bases.

Keep trying to pad your stance...Putin already spilled the beans, and it doesn't match your version.

Actually it sounds like the facts BornagainAlien posted does not mesh well with YOUR version so you just ignore it and then keep on with your twisted truths. Russia did not "invade" Crimea and everyone knows it. The only ones that argue it are neo-conservatives and those that get all their news from US propaganda networks.

originally posted by: johnwick

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Shiloh7

Invaded or were welcomed in? I rather fancy it was welcomed in because so many of the people there speak Russian and voted to stay Russian.

Unless Ukraine invited them in (and I don't think that happened) then they invaded.

Better yet Putin has admitted to sending armed troops without insignias for the purpose of annexing Crimea...which was already decided before the referendun was done.

What bothers me is that the USA and UK (hands up but not my politics) have been invading countries since the Gulf with the most deplorable record imaginable.

I rather fancy it as being invited...see it is the same since you think Russia was invited to invade a sovereign country the same argument can be used for what the US did. The difference is the US leaves, and does not annex any part of the country they go into...something Russia can't say.

the ordinary folk trying to live their lives peacefully in the debris left behind with Western war mongering

I guess you forgot about this...

Chechnya after Russia...

But it is easier to say the US does all the bad...right?

I couldn't agree more.

America isn't trying to expand its borders at the tip of a sword.

There a country doing this though...hint, it is russia.

Also when we bomb a country it doesn't look like a fire bombing from WW2 just happened, and we rebuild its infrastructure etc.....

Even going as far as to upgrade its military withodern american equipment.

Sure our foreign policy isn't perfect, but compared to Russia's.....lol ours looks pretty damned good.

Hey I got an idea. Lets just make *snip* up and pretend itnis true. Oh, I see your one step ahead.

"We rebuild infrastructure" LMAO. We fork over billions of public dollars to private contractors that kick back to public officials. Don't act like we are doing any charity. The foreign aid isn't even aid because the money just goes back to western contractors who have the infrastructure to build infrastructure. When we leave, they have nothing but bills and attractive resources.

a reply to: johnwick

So russia didn't just invade and annex Crimea????

They have been there for centuries.