One for the Vegans, Plants know who, and What, is eating it and feel some kind of pain

a reply to: artistpoet

I would say you are quoting the law of your land or religion or some rule laid down by others who rule you

The word murder has a meaning, and it is a legal term.

and by non Human animal I suppose you refer to all other fellow sentient beings

Sentient? So what? Now who's bringing a religion into it?

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

The word murder has a meaning, and it is a legal term

So the first part of my response was correct ... "I would say you are quoting the law of your land"

Sentient? So what? Now who's bringing a religion into it?

I think you do not understand the meaning of sentient ... it has nothing to do with religion
Here it is :-

Sentient
having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
characterized by sensation and consciousness.... the conscious mind.

a reply to: artistpoet

I think you do not understand the meaning of sentient ... it has nothing to do with religion

Of course the meaning doesn't but it's used to justify a religious stance. What difference does sentience make when it comes to food?

Where is the cut off for sentience in the animal kingdom? Is it objective or subjective?

Of course the meaning doesn't but it's used to justify a religious stance. What difference does sentience make when it comes to food?

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Being non religious ... I used the term sentient in it's true meaning ... But if I was a Hindu I might take exception to eating a Cow ...

You speak of food ... I will tell you my thoughts on food ... I believe you should eat what you choose to eat ...
Not sure what you mean by what is the cut off point for sentience in the animal kingdom ... animals think and have feelings ... they are conscious and plants are not conscious but merely react to their environment is my point ...

a reply to: artistpoet

according to the OP Plants do have feelings. SO since they do what happens next? We starve correct? OR we go ahead and do as we wilt?

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: artistpoet

according to the OP Plants do have feelings. SO since they do what happens next? We starve correct? OR we go ahead and do as we wilt?

I am not so sure that the OP shows that plants have feelings, but i am a vegetarian and I love plants. I care for them and make sure they live in a very natural state as much as possible, I harvest leafs from my lettuce and let it grow to full of it's short life span and seed. Many plants are made to be eaten by mammals and birds to spread their seeds.

Personally I believe they have feelings and I would wish to make sure they are not treated in a way that causes them constant stress. I don't know if they have best friends they clearly have affection for like cows for instance but it has been shown they help their offspring and trees have been shown to actually share nutrients with others that need help!

For me eating other animals that are like myself feels like cannibalism. For others I only wish that they would consider the animals life and pain that it lives before the slaughter for eating. If people would care about this and acknowledge the wrongness of the ways we treat them it would be a very big thing! Nothing will change if people refuse to LOOK.

We recently saw the video in the dairy with the very sick milk cow, she had a high fever and was to weak to stand to get into the truck to the slaughter house, so they kept using a cattle prod and shocking her tits over and over to get her into the truck! We stopped using dairy that day. Her pain is now my pain I wish I did not have to look but it is a responsibility! bad things go on because we refuse to LOOK!

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: Golden Rule

But nonetheless, Chronogoblin has spewed forth a truth nugget when he spoke from his guts. The civilization that surrounds us and supports us was built on murder

You may be talking down to us from your lofty high horse but it's not so high that we can't smell the stench of the sanctimony. Let's get this straight right now.

Murder: an Overview

Definition

Murder occurs when one human being unlawfully kills another human being.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Murder does not apply to plants or animals.

You don’t have to educate me on the meaning of murder D.O., I used it in its literal sense when I wrote: “The civilization that surrounds us and supports us was built on murder".
This was in response to poster Chronogoblin’s previous statement:

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
Been saying this on this site for some time now, because hypocrisy, and snobbery suck. Guess what vegans, your murderers too! Congrats! Deal with it, the rest of us do.

You have given yourself the poster name of DenyObfuscation and yet you are blatently obfuscating my intended meaning. If you read my entire post without reacting exactly in the way Chronogoblin himself has done you wouldn’t have done so.
Chronogoblin accuses vegans of being snobs and hypocrites. You accuse me of being on a lofty, sanctimonious high horse. Which means what? Yeah, I know.: “Ya think ya better than everyone else, dontcha?" These are usually the last words one hears from some drunken rock-ape at a barbeque when they overhear that you don’t eat meat and then sit at a distance talking to a few others occasionally twisting their heads round to give you a mean look and itching to find an excuse to knock your expensive new caps down your throat. Been there!
Back on track though, I didn’t accuse non-vegans of being murderers. Chronogoblin himself admitted to being a murderer and then said: "the rest of us (i.e. fellow carnivores) deal with it." Vegans though, he said, are also murderers but are too hypocritical to admit it.
I replied that I agree with Chronogoblin and added: “The civilization that surrounds us and supports us was built on murder”.
Then I went on to describe how historically a harsh and unforgiving environment forced our human ancestors to hunt animals for meat, this then led to hunting and killing (murdering) our fellow man. Fast forward to our civilization today –the inheritance of a civilization built upon murder and slavery.
You did not address any of the points I made, but just simply spewed forth (LOL) an accusation that I am on a high horse.
Yes, I am on a high horse - high enough to see where this predator culture is leading us. Luckily you don’t have either the inclination or the imagination or foresight to see it – otherwise you would be rocking and rolling in your sleep. The….horror.

It does seem hard at times for vegetarians to avoid attracting the ire of carnivores within a distinctly predatory culture, but here is someone who has managed to pull it off. No-one can call him sanctimonious, or a snob or a hypocrite. (caution - no-one's ego was harmed in the filming of this segment) cut to 1.00 minute mark so as not to waste 1 minute of your precious life)

Go Hughsey:

a reply to: Char-Lee

BAd things happen all the time but it dont mean it happens everywhere in all instances.@ the other people. how is civilization built on murder? In the olden days they did not have the option to go veg or even knew how.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Char-Lee

BAd things happen all the time but it dont mean it happens everywhere in all instances.@ the other people. how is civilization built on murder? In the olden days they did not have the option to go veg or even knew how.

Think you responded maybe to the wrong person?

a reply to: yuppa

according to the OP Plants do have feelings. SO since they do what happens next? We starve correct? OR we go ahead and do as we wilt?

Beause the OP apparently says plants have feelings does not mean they have feelings like we do ... Feelings for plants is sensing their surroundings and responding to them but they are Not Beings such as animals ... I respect plants but they are not the same as animals ... Intelligent patterns run through all living things and all things can be likened in this way .... But likeness is not sameness ... Plants are mostly food for animals including Humans or serve other purposes

a reply to: Golden Rule

One good reason if you buy from stores is you don't ever know what you are really getting. Such as this...
A grocery store in Austin, Texas–MT Supermarket–allegedly sold and labeled beef penis, or “pizzle,” as human food.

www.breitbart.com...enis-as-human-food/

originally posted by: artistpoet

You like all Humans are an animal also ...
There is a vast difference between living things and sentient living beings
Plants like all living things react to their environment ... this does not mean they think independently like sentient beings do
You could measure the reactions of many living things and surmise they feel pain if you want but you would be deluded
Does your hair feel pain when it is cut

Comparing a plant with an animal in this way is laughable ... Take a Reality check

Hit a little close to home, eh? When your done having your feelings hurt, perhaps you'll realize that all life is important, and such comparisons are apt. You kill a tree every time you do ANYTHING with paper, and killing is wrong, yet we need to do so to survive. I understand the fact that, as long as I live, something else will have to die. Period. Separating death into categories may make some people feel better, but it doesn't change the truth. Death is death, you kill a tree, it's the same senseless death that comes from slaughtering meat, the only difference? Meat often has a face.

a reply to: Chronogoblin

You have hardly hurt my feelings ... what would make you think that...

My reply to your original post ... pointed out the difference between animals and plants ... The word Murder can not be applied (In law according to Deny O) to causing the death of a plant nor apparently to causing the death of an animal ... as our Slaughterhouse's Prove daily.....

My point is still the same .... Animals including Humans are concious living beings ... Plants are not the same.

Death is a natural occurrence whether in plants or animals .... non escape it .... A plant is like a Human in that way ...

The documentary shows how plants react to their environment and stimuli ... Again my point remains the same ... Plants are not the same as animals ... even a child inherently knows that.

a reply to: Char-Lee

One good reason if you buy from stores is you don't ever know what you are really getting. Such as this...
A grocery store in Austin, Texas–MT Supermarket–allegedly sold and labeled beef penis, or “pizzle,” as human food.

Hardly any shop label truly describes what the product is ...

Meat is dead animal flesh
Beef is Cattle flesh
Veal is the flesh of young cattle
Bacon is Pig Flesh
Mutton is mature Sheep flesh etc etc
Lamb however is what it says it is ... the flesh of Lamb's

Plants are not made of flesh