Juncker: NATO is not enough, EU needs an army

originally posted by: MrSpad
Not going to happen. Not even slightly realistic. They talked about this before, the US encourage them. It fell apart because nobody wanted to pay for it. Defense budgets have shrunk even more since then. The UK and France are not going to give up their own forces that before then they could not act on there interests when they wished. This is beyond a pipe dream.

I know what you mean. I think the poor military response to Russian aggression is changing the equation for the EU. Russia is clearly taking advantage of the diversity of opinion between EU members to blunt any EU actions against them. Just like after Russia cut off the Gas flow in the dispute with Ukraine the EU put together a coordinated action plan to correct the problem. I think you'll see a coordinated action plan for an EU military. It will take 10 years plus as the EU moves slower than a sloth...but it will happen.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
I think you'll see a coordinated action plan for an EU military. It will take 10 years plus as the EU moves slower than a sloth...but it will happen.

...and just like the currency union, I don't think Britain will be involved. I hope I am correct, and also that we join something like the European Economic Area instead of the EU.

*Edit*
I don't want any EU sovereign forces defending the island I was born on, British Army, Royal Air Force, and Royal Navy everytime for me.
Perhaps it is why some folk from Bavaria could be so hostile to us sometimes, Bavaria lost the game with Germany long ago, and now can only cling on to the EU skirt-tails.
The "Free State of Bavaria" has no special status to any of the other German states.
The UK is a sovereign nation...still...and I want it to stay that way with our own sovereign armed forces.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: Peeple

No your analogy is not correct...

Our current system in Europe is not like State armies working seperately...


A true analogy of this proposal is like Canada, U.S, Mexico, Argentina and every other American country having 1 Army...


& it's a terrible idea imo.

I agree.

Cant imagine French and spanish troops ever wanting to help in UK security unless there own arse eas on the line.

It would just end up in a mess with troops deserting or fighting with poor moral.

Have any UK national's expressed a desire for our national security to be the responsibility of EU armed forces in this thread yet?
I'll be shocked if we get even one, genuinely.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Hmmm, this is something David Icke has been predicting for a very long time. The intention of a E.U Military machine, in order to serve TPTB and act out their every whim.

Martial Law could be called all across Europe and the U.K could find themselves being soldiered by Italians or Greeks or Germans.

Dare we leave the E.U if they do form an Army? Will they see it as a sign of aggression, daring to leave the gravy train and compete with them?

Exactly

Its dangrous.

The UK army would likely never turn on us.

But German or french troops would find shooting british civilians much easier.

Sorry but my grandfathers fought a war to STOP germans and italians from marching down our streets.

My ancestors bleed on the fields of spain and at waterloo to stop french troops marching down our streets.

EU can keep there army.

Id sooner the UK become a US state!

originally posted by: grainofsand
The UK is a sovereign nation...still...and I want it to stay that way with our own sovereign armed forces.

I think you'll see the big countries all want to keep some form of military, but I can easily see the smaller countries jumping on the bandwagon to build an EU military. They only have so much money but combined with the other small countries it could make a much bigger military. Of course they would be looking for subsidies from the bigger EU members into the EU military pot even if they keep their own military.

originally posted by: crazyewok

Sorry but my grandfathers fought a war to STOP germans and italians from marching down our streets.

My ancestors bleed on the fields of spain and at waterloo to stop french troops marching down our streets.

You have some Kahones to talk like a patriot after your posts about letting Ukraine get taken over by the Russians. I wonder what your ancestors would tell you about Russian aggression?

originally posted by: ShayneJUK
so when the EUSSR becomes fully established will me and my family be entitled to political asylum
in the US because i will never except full integration within Europe.
and a collective military is another step down that slippery slope.
it is yet another in the string of insane crap dripping out of the EU parliament.
i a feel it would be a step to far as far as Russia is concerned and i dont want to be on the receiving
end of Russia's displeasure.

As much as I critise our American cousins I trust them more and feel more akin to them than I do the EU.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: grainofsand
The UK is a sovereign nation...still...and I want it to stay that way with our own sovereign armed forces.

I think you'll see the big countries all want to keep some form of military, but I can easily see the smaller countries jumping on the bandwagon to build an EU military. They only have so much money but combined with the other small countries it could make a much bigger military. Of course they would be looking for subsidies from the bigger EU members into the EU military pot even if they keep their own military.

Agreed, it is why I will vote for an EEA style option if we get a referendum and it looks like it may happen, so far.
Of course, if the referendum is in a media environment of "doom" then it will be influenced, but I can't see many supporting any EU armed forces protecting the UK, next to none, aside from EU nationals who live here and have the vote.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: crazyewok

Sorry but my grandfathers fought a war to STOP germans and italians from marching down our streets.

My ancestors bleed on the fields of spain and at waterloo to stop french troops marching down our streets.

You have some Kahones to talk like a patriot after your posts about letting Ukraine get taken over by the Russians. I wonder what your ancestors would tell you about Russian aggression?

Yeah.......

Last time I checked Im english not Ukranian.

And Russia last time I checked has not annexed or threatend to attack UK terratory.


Not sure why being a english patriot makes me want to protect ukraine?

Or do patriots in your brain always mean pro war.

a reply to: crazyewok
...same language does help wonders feeling akin with each other though

*Edit*
Same Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland, Belize, and a few other island nations...Barbados...Jamaica...

a reply to: grainofsand

And the fact the USA hasnt tried to invade us....yet :p

Well unless you count there failed invasion of canada in 1812

a reply to: crazyewok
Lol, they'd piss all over us as we all know, unless we met them at the beaches, all of us and them just with our fists, then it'd be a fair fight I reckon.

a reply to: dollukka

I think it's high time that the European Union starts to finance its own military. Then we Americans can come home. Then when things go wrong in the world, that's one less thing that can be blamed on us.

If you want to keep NATO, OK, but we stop doing the heavy lifting. It becomes a co-equal thing or nothing.

a reply to: crazyewok

And it's this attitude that is why the EU is doomed. Your mastercrats in Brussels want the EU to be like the US. At least over here, we mostly nominally view ourselves as all part of the same union so someone from Missouri will still feel a duty to someone from Cali or New York when push comes to shove, but you guys are still all separate nations.

a reply to: ketsuko
One big difference though, Ukraine is not part of the EU, although the knock-on effects to EU nations could be huge.
Ukraine may have some empathy and feelings of duty from some neighbouring EU nations, but why would the average Brit want to fight Russia over them, they aren't in Nato, or the EU, so have as much relevance to say me, as the war in Syria.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: crazyewok

Sorry but my grandfathers fought a war to STOP germans and italians from marching down our streets.

My ancestors bleed on the fields of spain and at waterloo to stop french troops marching down our streets.

You have some Kahones to talk like a patriot after your posts about letting Ukraine get taken over by the Russians. I wonder what your ancestors would tell you about Russian aggression?

Yeah.......

Last time I checked Im english not Ukranian.

And Russia last time I checked has not annexed or threatend to attack UK terratory.


Not sure why being a english patriot makes me want to protect ukraine?

Or do patriots in your brain always mean pro war.

Remember when the UK was begging for help from everyone after Dunkirk? When your Island was about to get overrun before Germany turned East instead of wiping England out? I bet your ancestors remember getting help!

Your attitude towards other is perfectly allowed...it's a free country. But it sickens me.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: crazyewok

And it's this attitude that is why the EU is doomed. Your mastercrats in Brussels want the EU to be like the US. At least over here, we mostly nominally view ourselves as all part of the same union so someone from Missouri will still feel a duty to someone from Cali or New York when push comes to shove, but you guys are still all separate nations.

You summed it up the words mastercrat.

Uk does not want that form of goverment.

If your look down so badly on the EU then how do you think we feel!

We hate it, hense why the demand for a referendum !


Plus I dont think you grasp the diffrence in european cultures?


The french and spanish way of doing things is not always compatible with the british way and vice versa.

We are in some ways more similiar to you guys than most european countrys!

Would you guys in the US trust your goverment to the french? Would you trust your armed forces to the spanish?
Im guessing not, nor would you trust us brits to rule you and its taken alot of time and wars fighting side by side for our militarys to trust each other to the level we do today. British blood has been spilt for Americs and American blood for british, more than can be said for most of europe!

So can you really expect us to want to merge with europe any more than you would want to merge with mexico or canada?

O and Ukraine is not part of the EU.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: crazyewok

Sorry but my grandfathers fought a war to STOP germans and italians from marching down our streets.

My ancestors bleed on the fields of spain and at waterloo to stop french troops marching down our streets.

You have some Kahones to talk like a patriot after your posts about letting Ukraine get taken over by the Russians. I wonder what your ancestors would tell you about Russian aggression?

Yeah.......

Last time I checked Im english not Ukranian.

And Russia last time I checked has not annexed or threatend to attack UK terratory.


Not sure why being a english patriot makes me want to protect ukraine?

Or do patriots in your brain always mean pro war.

Remember when the UK was begging for help from everyone after Dunkirk? When your Island was about to get overrun before Germany turned East instead of wiping England out? I bet your ancestors remember getting help!

Your attitude towards other is perfectly allowed...it's a free country. But it sickens me.

Then go get a sick bucket.

When you finnish with it you can go use it as a wardrum