Improving the estimate of US police killings

Source: boingboing.net...

Patrick Ball and the Human Rights Data Analysis Group applied the same statistical rigor that he uses in estimating the scale of atrocities and genocides for Truth and Reconciliation panels in countries like Syria and Guatemala to the problem of estimating killing by US cops, and came up with horrific conclusions. Ball was responding to a set of new estimates of death-by-cop produced by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, and the HRDAG provided a critique of the BJS's methods to show that they were significantly under-counting the bodies.

The report states half of the police will not submit reports on officer involved deaths in a nationwide count by the BJS. The BJS statistics are simply extrapolated to form the other 50% of the number. The obvious problem with this is the fact that the worst offending police forces out there are likely the uncounted half further moving the real numbers down in the real statistic.

Again I post a thread that should be in posse comitatus but I have no posting privilege there for some reason. Mods?

a reply to: machineintelligence

I am not sure how you could not report it . The person has an extra hole in them . Right .

a reply to: hutch622

The agencies will not file the requested reports so the reporting agency is extrapolating to fill in the blanks.

If we just speak hypotheticlly for moment here.100% hypotheticlly.I have no facts to substantiate this post it is simply hypothetical conjecture.



- Death due to natural causes precipitated by the chronic and over-use of alcohol or drugs......this means anyone who dies during the investigtion stage while in pre-emptive custody and has a history of drug or alcohol use is excusable.

- Death due to resisting arrest via flight or physical resistance escalating to lethal levels,with no weapons involved ,including people who die week or two or even year or two post-injuries .A refusal to obey a simple verbal command may at any time begin this cycle of dynamic escalation which could result in a suspects death with all accountability forced upon the dead person.

-Death caused by Taser,any Taser use is Murder if a death is involved.we have all seen the SOP videos of multiple officers standing over little old ladies and teenagers yelling at them to stop moving or they will get more....as if anyone could stop moving with electricity cooking them from the inside out...they use the refusal to obey a verbal command one cannot abide by due to exisitng levels of force to validate THEIR escalation of electricity cooking you even more and killing POSSIBLY HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS if we count all the ones they attribute to drugs or booze or pre-existing health factors.

-Death due to injuries sustained prior to arrest and detention, this means anyone who had any degree of physical violence attatched to themselves prior to death become excusable,if said suspect was a victim of violence a week or two prior to the event causing their death then any deaths during or before investigation or arrest or incarceration may be excusable.How many of these people caught up in lifestyles which lead them to conflict with the law endure violence on a regular basis....most of them...this is a no-brainer.

- Death due to suicide while in custody,most times under 24 hour care and control,any pre-existing drug-alcohol-or depression issues will make these excusable,how many people involved in the viscious cycle of life which brings then into the focus of the law do not have one of these triggers for excusbility in their lives somewhere?It is no-brainer.

-Death due to resisting arrest with a weapon,possesing a weapon is not a death sentence,firing one at law enforcement is,not simply possesing or firing weapon during the process of interactions.If a suspect shoots out the tires of a police car you cannot murder him back.If he fires a gun in the air or ground you cannot murder him.

-Death caused when a suspect is driving a motor vehicle,you cannot murder a human being for trying to run your spike-belt or road-block....you cannot shoot them in the head for forcing you to move out of their way...you cannot murder them to hold your ground... you cannot cause high speed chases which kill innocents and kill suspects and officers.... you dont get to be the final word every time,judge-jury-and executioner.You have to get them later sometimes,if no death is involved you cannot hunt them down and murder them indiscriminantly.

-Death caused in custody from other inmates,putting people in vulnerable positions can lead to their deths,dynmics intentionally created become excusable.

-Death caused by intentional refusal to provide timely medical intervention at any stge of interaction ,ie allowing someone suffering from obvious or suspected alcohol or drug overdose to die,or not allowing medics to attend suspects hurt and dieing while officers or others are attended to.

There are many more hypothetical possibilitys if we wish to continue.

This is all hypothetical, and I have no evidence anythings like this have happened,its just that there are windows of opportunity here which must be respected.

Yes,if these and other hypothetical dynamics were considered and completely investigated the numbers of deaths we would consider to be murder by people in positions of power could be epic and shockingly high,thousands and thousands and thousands.But the people who support the entire process beginning with the Judges who set the status quo must be held equally accountable to the police et all whom they accommodate.

We might need to seperately quantify the likely THOUSANDS and thousands also killed or murdered in prisons and jails,not killed by police but by others from guards to other inmates.

Bringing this level of corruption to and end and forcing change is Presidential level thing to do,is America harboring a future leader somewhere amongst these changes????????

If you think that the solution to police brutality is to vote, then you don't fully appreciate the level of the corruption and abuse that we are dealing with.
It comes from the top down- the police just happen to be the hired goons that us citizens deal with. They are there to protect the governments interests.

The only way to stop it is to change the government- and it's a rigged system where anyone who stands a chance of being elected was hand picked by the very people who have made it into what it is.


The mentality of this government is aggressive, and it has become very powerful. What to people in power always want? More power. How do they get it? More aggression.

Sure is a lot of "probably" and "assume" in that article.

Guess they seem to forget that just because an agency doesn't report a shooting it doesn't mean nobody knows about it. The community the agency serves "probably" knows about it. The people who knew the deceased "probably" know about it. The people who witnessed either the shooting or the aftermath "probably" know about it.

originally posted by: machineintelligence
The obvious problem with this is the fact that the worst offending police forces out there are likely the uncounted half further moving the real numbers down in the real statistic.

That's an assumption based on an preconceived notion that they're trying to hide something. Most LEO agencies have enough paperwork and records to keep--especially the small ones with limited manpower--and don't want to do work that isn't mandated. While I do wish that all LEO agencies would submit such a report to a central location so that we all had better statistics, I completely understand why some would not, for legitimate reasons, want to take the time to do so.

What I would also like to see is people who are so concerned with this type of reporting also specify that they would like to see them catagorized as 'justified,' 'unjustified,' or 'under investigation.' This is a very necessary part of the equation in assessing true police excessive use of deadly force. I know many people don't like to hear this, but most people who find death at the end of a service pistol were most likely asking for it at the time due to their actions.

double post

I dont think he is saying they Hide the Bodies !
he means they dont send in the corect forms.
they hide the numbers.

a reply to: lordcomac

The system is rigged but not how you think,it is mirroring what you see,actually TPTB DISCOURAGE the masses fom voting,because they know very well that PHYSICLLYnot casting your vote DOES NOT remove it from the playaction or the dynamic,it simply means you GIVE IT AWAY TO SOMEONE ELSE WHOSE VOTE WILL NOW BE WORTH SLIGHTLY MORE THAN IT USED TO BE.If enough people do not physiclly vote the value of their votes is spread amongst those who do in fact vote.....their voice does not disappear...the give it away.

The solution is a LAW saying you MUST physiclly vote in every election with no exceptions.A law that says NO ELECTION IS EVER VALID WITHOUT A 100% FULL VOTE BY EVERY PERSON....in person.

The vote works only if you can make it universal.They know this the TPTB so they spend billions supporting the voting "process" and billions more stopping people from voting so they can hijack unused but still active votes----they are running basic scam on a massive scale.