Detachment is apathy

a reply to: arpgme
Attachment and detachment only arise if there is an idea that you are separate - do you seek a connection with the world?
No one can connect to the world.
But it can be realized that you are not separate from what is - it can be realized that you are what is. Then what is there to connect?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

Not being attached to 'the world' is not about hiding away from it. It is about realizing what is real and what is merely abstraction.
If one is trying to mend the world then one will never have peace or compassion because the premise is that the world is flawed and can and should be mended by 'me' and everyone else. If that is ones life and reason for existence then it is a hellish condition to suffer - I feel great compassion for them.

What is experienced as life? Is it dissatisfaction with the way things are? Life is the sensation happening now and thoughts about how people should be attached or detached hide the peace that is beneath.

One can realize this illusion, or abstraction, and still get involved in it.
One can play a video game, for example, with the knowledge that it is not real- the character they are "being" is not real, the enviornments and other characters they get involved with are not real, and still get involved with all the missions, actions, and relationships that are happening in that game.

The claim that is repeatedly heard in belief systems like that is something like "Don't play it! Don't feel thigns about it, don't identify with that character, don't invest in it, because than you will become mired in the illusion and forget it isn't real!"
This is not what I experience.

You say,this "world" is made up of dissatisfaction with the way things are,
that is not what I experience. I do not even feel a dissatisfaction with your opposing view.

You are satisfied with yours, I am satisfied with mine. You express yours, that gives me an opportunity to express mine. I have no desire to change yours. I do not feel you "should" see and experience as I do.
I don't care if this "me" does not exist, nor if anything exists at all. I feel free to play this game and have fun with it, regardless.

a reply to: Bluesma
When playing a video game one sees what is being rendered and is not so concerned about what one will do later or did before or what others should be doing to make it a better game.
One knows that one cannot control the appearance in a video game but in this reality it seems there are many who believe they can and must try to control what arises.

When one realizes what one actually is the game is allowed to play. The show just shows up. And there is a resting place where it is all witnessed from.

I have a feeling that you think that action will stop - it doesn't - life carries on but it is weightless.

Every moment and every thought has a feeling associated with it. Detachment is a transitory state since its a way of feeling. All feelings are transitory. This Op feels negative and dark, but that feeling will pass after I hit the reply and say good bye to this thread forever.

originally posted by: arpgme
Feeling detached from the world is not the Spirit of Love but apathy. Spirit is attached to everyone through compassionate love.

Detachment is suppressing Love Generosity and all things good for Life.

The Buddha said to have compassion for all. and that generosity is important but the fake sort of Buddhism ignores the love part and focuses on the "detached" part - that detachment being towards greed ("desire") not the detachment of compassionate love Buddha and Jesus taught to have for all.

Why do so many ignore or avoid the generosity/love part but not the "zen" "dettached" or "one consciousness" part that is talked about so much . in new age spirituality nowadays?

That's the arpgme I'm familiar with. Been mediating with thought looking for thought to bring truth again when all it does is bring more discursve thinking... if you remove greed from oneself, theres still hate, if you both greed and hate from oneself there is still delusion, if you remove all three? Theres the ignorance that you have grabbed the tiger by the tail. Let go... the tigers tail of discursive thinking, although it leads to wisdom of samsara in samsara it is still samsara. You are at the top of the 10,000 foot pole ready to be pulled in and the house is built again, so close its now and again. A pit full of philosophy awaits if you don't let go of that damn cat.

*For others. The world is samsara. Samsara, is a world of ignorance kept in motion by greed, hate, and delusion. It is wise to detach from it so you can see directly into it. It's a can't see the forest for all the tress situation.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth
you are the world, you are a better place that moves around.Thanks for sharing your face, your love. How can one know love if one has never felt it? seen it? or even heard rumors of it.

There comes a time when one realises what is real and what is made up. Our society is not structured to accommodate such realisations and demands that we adhere to and enforce our previously given state of mind.

For instance, some will not be able to see that thay are not a man, that man is a word we have simply been led to believe we are and agree to be.



To subscribe to certain truths often requires a disascotiation of some sort, especially if a balance can not be struck. But, in duality, it is often the perception of a undesirable polar opposite that gives half of the meaning to its "ideal" counterpart.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

improving the Now current reality by making it better for those who hunger is a hellish condition but what about trying to make it better for oneself by eating when hungry ?


Even the rich can easily say "the now is perfect" as they eat and let the rest of the world starve.

a reply to: arpgme

In your one-sided opinion detachment is apathy. But this kind of declaration means you actually don't care the other sides opinion. Why should I care about yours?

a reply to: th3dudeabides

I do care that's why I point out how dangerous that belief is.

a reply to: arpgme

Make things better without attachment, without fear of failure or hope of reward - wu wei. Action without action.

To act without acting is to let the spirit act through you; is to walk in paradox. Not apathy.

Here is an example of wu wei. Luke detached from the targeting computer (the ego) and let The Force act through him. Action without action.

Let go, Luke.



👣

a reply to: arpgme

I'll answer your question directly in the context of the OP as a whole. People choose to ignore the love part and focus only on the detachment part out of a strategy which promotes convenience.

It works for individuals, but not for large social groups. You can only have so many individuals who are emotionally detached from others before serious issues arise for everyone.

The thing is, it can be a successful lifelong strategy, some individuals never having to witness their social structure crumble under the weight of mass apathy. In this sense, it can be argued to be rational, and sane, although not with benefit to society as a whole, unless they view entropy as a necessity, and their work as a catalyst to bring about change through the necessary actions.

I don't see this as a black and white thing in the least. It takes all kinds of people to have us progress. Guess I'd have to flip this on you and ask why you wouldn't choose a life of detachment. I know the answer. Do you?

a reply to: BlueMule

Yea, I know what you mean but even effortless actions which the love of the Spirit flows through the body is still action.

I'm mostly referring to those who take detachment to mean you don't have to worry about others.

Jesus's teachings are cool. Love your neighbour, help others while.

Buddha's teachings are cool. Compassion for all beings.

Lao Tzu teachings are cool go with the flow (wu wei) and keep the 3 treasures (one being compassion) in your heart.

But what I see some people doing is taking the detachment teachings of these teachers to say "the world is an illusion - everything will be ok" while leaving out the importance of Compassion which all three of them talked about. This is what makes the teaching of "detachment" as it's talked about in the new age/spiritual community today apathy.

ignorance is detachment.

a reply to: arpgme
Now is arising unconditionally - when that is seen who will be suffering?
Do you think you are doing now?
Who do you think is doing now?

originally posted by: Itisnowagain


I have a feeling that you think that action will stop - it doesn't - life carries on but it is weightless.

Your feeling is mistaken. The action never stops, I just enjoy the experience of taking part in it.

originally posted by: arpgme
Feeling detached from the world is not the Spirit of Love but apathy. Spirit is attached to everyone through compassionate love.

Detachment is suppressing Love Generosity and all things good for Life.

The Buddha said to have compassion for all. and that generosity is important but the fake sort of Buddhism ignores the love part and focuses on the "detached" part - that detachment being towards greed ("desire") not the detachment of compassionate love Buddha and Jesus taught to have for all.

Why do so many ignore or avoid the generosity/love part but not the "zen" "dettached" or "one consciousness" part that is talked about so much . in new age spirituality nowadays?

To be truly free of all limits it is necessary to recognize and ultimately fully realize that Reality is already free of all conditionality, but is NOT separate from anything whatsoever.

The common error your are addressing with what you are calling "new age spirituality" is that it is often assumed that what arises (conditionality) must be avoided and detached from in order to realize the unconditional Reality.

However, Reality is not separate from anything and therefore is not detached from anything. Nor is Reality attached to anything. Reality is unconditionally prior to all arising, though paradoxically not separate from anything whatsoever.

Realizing Reality is realizing one's non-separation from all - and in that there is awakening to Reality's inherent love/compassion founded on prior unity with all.

To further address your last question:

It is also easier for people to talk endlessly about insights into the non-dual nature of existence than to actually live by the full implications of such recognition, which include real disciplines.

If one is deeply founded in Reality, they are filled with Reality's love/bliss and this is a whole bodily matter, not just some talking head insight (that has been referred to in the Zen tradition as the stink of enlightenment). This is not just a new-age issue - it has always been the case for those of us who would rather just talk the talk than walk the walk.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

a reply to: Bluesma

a reply to: Bluesma

Music to my ears, dear Bluesma.

Satisfaction is a far greater and more noble word than even happiness.

You might not even agree with this—and this might be too metaphysical of a digression—but I think you illustrate quite simply how you are interested in particular things, the objects of the world, the relationship between yourself and others entities, while others seem interested simply in themselves and their particular point of view, even when they attempt to call it their "awareness" or their "illusion, their "maya". This is what imagine when I read your expression. It's a good thought.

To oppose ideas that speak in defence of detachment—interest in things and objects is what is needed most. It is easy to be compassionate to what one is interested in.

In terms of literature (all that their sacred texts could ever amount to), write with interest about the things of the world again. From interest comes cheer and merriment.

In social terms its relation between persons. Whenever I meet someone for the first time, face to face, I know that a being who can relate and express a life of experience stands before me. Immediate interest in someone is a valuable social behavior, and has worked in almost every setting. Genuine interest in someone breaks culture barriers. It is the prerequisite to discovery; and though it entails both danger and advantage to self, the reward is learning.

In even more metaphysical and spiritual terms, to realize that the "soul", or the "subject" is infinitely smaller than the object that contains it, is a liberating thought. To be become object again, relative to other objects, to become "flesh", able to be compassionate to other "flesh", is a spiritual path few read about.

In psychological terms, detachment is nothing more than an attempt at hibernation or sleep, perhaps too tired of the powerful senses, what with their peaks of pleasure and pain. The detachment It is flight over fight.

In objective terms, "one thing is interested in another other things", is the best way to describe it. Compassion involves a relationship between two objects in which both parties benefit.

In strict moral terms, everything works perfectly following it. Everyone goes home satisfied.

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
Okay, I think "detachment" can mean different things to people. What exactly are you being detached from? As ketsuko mentioned, one can become detached from the immediate object, yet become more attached to the things behind the object at the same time.

In my case it's life. I am not ruled by material wealth, the only things I desire are that which could help others. I do not worry about money. Life and death even have no meaning to me, no matter what I do I will eventually experience both.

The thing is, everything is transitory. Being rich, being poor, friends and family. These all change over time, even we change. How many of us legitimately want to go back to being the person we were just 5 years ago?

There's something within my psyche now that holds perspective, or perhaps insight would be a better word. I can appear emotionally detached to some, but this would not be a correct assessment. I am carefully weighing everything, and choosing where best to extend my energies, and how so to create the best impact on others. Sometimes that means not acting at all.

Detachment doesn't mean a lack of empathy to me, with some differences in circumstances I and the person I'm looking at could have just as easily switched spots. It's a bit humbling to think about actually.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: arpgme
Overcome the world by realizing that the world is a concept.
You cannot come into direct conscious contact with an abstract thing (concept).
Concepts are what are appearing in mind - there is no peace when there is a juggling of concepts.

When there is a detachment from concepts there will be 'nothing' for you to attach to. That 'nothing' is peace.

This is well put, and expresses so well what I keep seeing behind such belief systems- a desire to "overcome" the exterior world. To defeat, overpower, overwhelm. To run from that experience of powerlessness to control the exterior and others. To have a sense of power inside, simply from adjusting your belief about what you perceive.

Why is manipulating concepts with the mind not pleasant or pleasurable? I find it fun, I search for new concepts to play with, to take apart, put together, mix and match with new ones... this is where "others" and uncontrollable events become sources of much joy. Peace is nice- a good reason to take time in nature regularly and cease to experience separation for a while. But joy is nice too! Fun, exploration of relativity and relation between concepts....
I seriously don't mind if it is not someone elses cup of tea, and they'd like to retire to a mountaintop alone and not take part in that. I just wonder why they assume that others down there playing in it are "suffering", or unhappy, or dissatisfied?


The dictionary describes compassion thus-

sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it

Now, choosing to believe others are in distress or state of suffering, certainly opens the path for the believer to then feel "compassionate" (thus, virtuous... ). But that is merely an internal experience, having nothing to do with those being compassioned over.

I have sister in law that I could easily say is a slave to fashion, the poor thing... she must suffer greatly, always trying to make sure she knows what the "it" bag of the season is before everyone else! I feel great compassion for her terrible struggle, and I would be willing to help her whenever she asks, to get out of that terrible meaningless attachment.
-Except she isn't suffering, it's a game she loves and takes pleasure in, even if I don't. And even to imagine that my dislike of that activity or value must be applicable to everyone would be experience by her as my lack of understanding, compassion, or recognition of her individual experience (not to mention a silly attempt at feeling superior).

We used to have a dog that would run crazily around the pool barking and trying to "save" us whenever we got in to swim.
That is just what is arising for me right now.