Atheists don't "know" there is no God.....

originally posted by: wasaka

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
It's funny to see how many people can't even agree on what an atheist is! LOL!

If a Christian living in Greece 2000 years ago said that they did not believe
in the gods of Mt Olympus, they would be considered an atheist.

It's all about context.

Would they have been prosecuted or killed for their lack of beliefs?

originally posted by: Entreri06
Atheists don't know there is no God.

The religious don't know there is one.

And all available scientific evidence is on the side of those who claim there isn't one.

When the evidence to suggest there is a God outweighs the evidence to say there isn't, then I'll consider changing my opinions. Until that day comes, the religious are no different to people who believe with every fiber of their being that Harry Potter actually exists.

Atheist are religious also because it is the nature of all of mankind to be religious.The amalgamation of all of a persons experiences form their belief in faith of their Belief System religion.This is true from new born babies up.A persons experiences form their beliefs(perception) of what they observe.A persons religion has a form of belief doctrines whether they are known or not.It is natural to just "believe" because that's the way this lifes experiences work.

What is being labeled as an atheist is someone who doesn't have a belief in a "God" that they perceive by observation.However it could be like a person that is colorblind.A person that is color sighted will state they observe a banana as yellow where as a colorblind person won't.The color sighted persons observation experience through their vision the banana is yellow and the color blinds observation is it is a shade of gray.

The irony is the colorblind person is technically more correct.In the truth of physics the banana is not "colored" yellow it is every color but yellow and is reflecting yellow light waves perceived by the color sighted persons eyes transmitted to their brain the belief(perception through observation) in a color called yellow.

These two people are experiencing the same event but perceiving through their observation something different.In one sense neither is incorrect in their observation it is just their perception that is different.The colorblind person may be more physic correct however they only see/perceive shades of gray and not the multitude of colors matter really is.The bottom line to belief(religion) is it comes down to how things are experienced by perceiving through observation(the basis of all science also)...a Belief System.

An atheist does not perceive a God through the observation of their experiences therefore to them a God does not exist in their experience just as the color yellow doesn't exist to a colorblind persons experience.A religion-religious person does believe in a God through their observation of their experience therefore to them a God does exist.

However here is the rub.The God that the religion-religious believe in faith by their experience is like the yellow color of the banana to the color sighted person.They only see what they believe is the color yellow in actuality the banana is every color but yellow and they are only seeing the yellow light waves reflected from it.In one real sense what they believe is not true .Bananas are not made of matter that is colored yellow.Until their eye or brain is damaged in a certain way they will continue to see the banana as yellow.It will be impossible to convince them otherwise because they truly see a yellow banana in their experience by their perceptul observation.You can even convince them of the true physics of the color of matter and light reflection and they will still believe a banana “looks” yellow to them.

The same is true of the colorblind person.If a person was gifted to experientialy see all the colors of matter as they really are and not the mixture which turns them shades of gray they could never convince the traditionally color sighted person or the color blind person of their experience.They both would deem through their perception experience the gifted sighted person delusional. However the truth is they are the ones that are delusional.The gifted sighted person is the one experiencing the truth.In one sense the are not perceiving through observation at all they are just experiencing matter for what it really is with no filters.

Of course this analogy will break down because mankind can only experience their life by the perception of their observations which will “color” that experience of matter into reflected light waves or mixtures.To be truth the experience cannot be perceived through observation.The fact is nothing the person does can cause them to experience without perception through observation because it’s self perpetuating cycle.Quieting the mind through religious acts like mediation or prayer or drugs or running or eating.. etc etc.. is just less perception of observation it is not “being” the experience.It may “feel” like it is transcending and ascending but it is not it is only altering the experience by a different perception through observation..and the spiral cycle continues.

Some people “feel” they have “seen” experienced a God or other life by a NDE.The name of the experience is the clue to what it really was.The perception of observation was true….however the experience itself is similar to what life on this side of the veil is…. an imperception of truth.The fact is it is impossible to “know” what life is beyond death because you have to BE dead to this physical realm life.Dead is DEAD not near dead or near alive.Then after death you have to be BE born anew to Life (spirit) in the other realm of Life.That excludes all NDE.That Life realm is not and cannot be in this realm just as the planet Jupiter is not and cannot be in an atom.They are disproportionate. Jupiter is way to massive.

I am not trying to dissuade (or discourage) anyone in their belief.It would be futile to attempt to do so because none can be dissuaded of their perception of observation through their Belief System.The only way the Belief System can be changed is if it is destroyed(annihilated) completely.On one hand it would be very liberating to say the least to know what is truth however on the other hand it would make it almost unbearable suffering to have to live in it.That is why the physical realm life is so short.This life is only a conception in a womb which none who live in it have been born out of it yet.One “day” everyone will experience life and it will no longer be an imperceptual observation seen through a colored lens of grayed darkness.Then ...if there is a God …you will know... and not believe.

a reply to: Rex282

Atheists are not religious:

religion rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

By definition they are the only non religious people on this gods earth (pun intended)

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Rex282

Atheists are not religious:

religion rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

By definition they are the only non religious people on this gods earth (pun intended)

yep..that's what they believe....

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Atheist- one who does not believe in any higher power

Theist- one who believes in at least one deity

Agnostic- one who believes that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity—is unknown or unknowable

Deist- one who believes that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is a creation and has a creator

Thanks for the explanation Draco!

From my point of view:

Would not a person who have no proof and change his mind according to proof be agnostic not atheist?

There is a belief that is called materialism that many people proscribe to that call themselves atheists, even when science goes towards ideas of quantum reality(simulation theory) and have already proven the old thinking is wrong.

Some people do not like probability fields controlling energy in different forms, like in the double slit experiment and cannot accept that entanglement is a wormhole phenomena where 2 places in space time are connected. Just look at the threads on Quantum Teleportation. Some people cannot allow themselves to accept the notion of instant information exchange, without going thru the media in between the 2 locations and start to talk about it being faster than light, even when it has no speed at all.

This is where atheism thru materialism becomes a faith driven dogma disconnected form real observation and real science.

Namaste (even if I am not a hindu. I like that phrase that means I bow to the divine (the love you can give when you are at your highest) in you)

If we see "all that exists on all levels" as a simulation then I do not know what exists outside the simulation, so I cannot say I have proof of anything outside the simulation.

What I can say is that within the simulation there is something working towards Unity/"oneness of all souls"/"spirits in harmony". I have not had any astral projection and had birth amnesia, so I have little objective information on what is going on. I have played around with energized body states so I know how low level the light/chi bliss feels like and the relaxation it brings. .

I follow the idea that all souls are connected on one level or another (All is ONE more or less), and what you do to others will one way or another come back to you (both good and bad). A being can be corrupted and become destructive to other beings. An idea if it is perfect cannot be corrupted, it can only be replaced by another idea.

And from my point of view when following the golden rule we all follow what Jesus, Buddha, Nanak, Rumi and many others have taught. .

Namaste

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Rex282

Atheists are not religious:

religion rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

By definition they are the only non religious people on this gods earth (pun intended)

yep..that's what they believe....

So their believe in nothing is a relgion? Gotcha

originally posted by: flammadraco

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: flammadraco
a reply to: Rex282

Atheists are not religious:

religion rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n/
noun the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

By definition they are the only non religious people on this gods earth (pun intended)

yep..that's what they believe....

So their believe in nothing is a relgion? Gotcha

Atheist put their pants on one leg at a time(even though that is awkward!) and they have a Belief System"religion" just like all the rest of the human race does.Religion is just a Belief System ....some believe in a God (always a false God) and some don't believe in any God or false God.It's all the persons perception however perception does not make things true.IMO it makes more sense to not believe in a false God than to believe in a false God however what makes real sense is to believe neither.

a reply to: Rex282

Then you have a different definition to the word "Relgion" than most people and you're entitled to your opinion.

I'll go with the aforementioned definition I posted earlier. Thanks

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: Entreri06

It would be nice if people would actually debate topics instead of semantic craziness like "atheism is a religion too" type garbage.

What the heck, I enjoy a challenge. I'll pick up the gauntlet. The fictional atheist, Sheldon Cooper from TV, has a religion. I could call it scientism, but that would be too easy. Instead I'll call it comic-bookism and say that the sci-fi/comic-books/fantasy genre is to science as religion is to God.

His is what I would technically call a dysfunctional mythology. Oh sure, he has his Church (the comic-book store), he has his prophets (Stan Lee, Leonard Nimoy, etc), and he has his scientism narrative. But his religion doesn't have a mystical function. Although it could.

But neither does mainstream Christianity, which is why I would also call Christianity a dysfunctional mythology. It used to be the dominant mythology until science started taking over its functions, such as the cosmological function.

👣

Since no atheists have put up an argument to this, I'll go ahead and announce that I have won the internet. Again. 🍻

👣

a reply to: BlueMule

a reply to: Entreri06

What evidenced do you have that can take away from someone saying they did hear the voice of god? or they had some kind heavenly experience. Can you take away someone experienced and justs ay you imagined it? or your experience is not valid?

i dont know if were discussing morality so i will that alone.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

but that's traditionally what Atheism is. A belief that ALL monotheistic religions are wrong, don't exist, don't make sense etc.

A lack of belief in the existence of those religious gods is different than a claim of knowledge whether they in fact do or do not exist. Which is what the OP means.

a reply to: ketsuko

Then you're not atheist. You're agnostic. Moving on ...

Hardly. Atheism and agnosticism are not mutually incompatible.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

I think it stems from an idea that there is no need for a creator, or more predominantly a figure to worship, for this to be true.

The rationale for disbelief will vary amongst atheists. For me it's simply that I haven't had a direct experience with my senses to warrant belief. Straightforward and applicable to all the alleged religious gods.

a reply to: shieldmaiden

A lot of atheists I've come across honestly just hate religion and don't believe God exists, and they think anyone who believes in God is stupid.

Believing in the objective truthfulness of things without strong evidence is not intelligent. What is an antonym for intelligence? Stupidity is one.

Not all atheists are anti-theists. I wish more were.

a reply to: Entreri06

Agnostics believe there is a god but all religions have it wrong.

That's deism not agnosticism.

a reply to: TonyS

Honestly, what does it really matter? What's to debate?

The debate on god's existence for me would simply be an entertaining discussion on metaphysics. No hostility at all. Also fully support people having god-belief even though I do not.

The debate for me would be religion itself. Religion and religious gods are an entirely separate discussion. If religion didn't impact the lifes of non-believers it wouldn't be so consequential. But of course religion is far from benign.