How is ANYONE supposed to get ahead nowadays?

You aren't meant to get ahead.

That's the game- the upper middle own everything, and you pay endless rent- they turn around and pay endless mortgage interest to the super rich.

The game is quite literally rigged.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

I'm glad someone besides those under 30 finally gets it. The answer is, it is very unlikely that someone my age will afford to rent a house all for themselves. What we have to do is either rent a small apartment or rent a house with the assistance of several room-mates who are not in our family and who are all working. Either that, or live with relatives, or with our parents... some parents even live with their working kids to help get by.

There are other things like this that people under 30 are doing, right now, just to get by because the economic crunch is not made up - it is real - and since it is real, it demands real answers. Even if other middle-aged people think it is fake, it still demands real answers. There are few middle-class jobs left in America and the economic climate has changed for the worse.

I have to get food stamps. I could go on about that - the government assistance - but at any rate, I get enough to pay $1 for every meal I eat. That means I have to shop extremely smart.

The list goes on and on.

If you want to know the truth, corporations are using the welfare system as an excuse to not pay living wages to their employees. They would never be able to get away with it if there was no safety net.

originally posted by: oldworldbeliever
Sounds like you need to downsize for awhile, maybe a cheap apartment and put stuff in storage. Than save up the cash to get what you want, or, just get what you need.
In a year I have gone from an income of $250 k to $65k. And to tell you truth, I am the happiest I have ever been in my entire life !!! Living simply is so much more satisfying then trying to keep up with the Joneses.

I doubt most people in my generation will ever see a $65 k income. Like I said, I graduated from college and I make $800 a month... and I'm going to save up and go to Graduate School... I already paid off my student loans...

Also, I know someone who was an older man making 65 k who lost his job and the only thing he can find is a part-time gig at a grocery store. Talk about hurting.

I do want to say I agree, the O.P. is setting his sights too high on his rental, he could rent a more modest place, or if he is really hurting, I like your idea of putting stuff in storage and renting an apartment.

If I lose my current apartment, I won't be able to afford first and last month's rent so I am probably going to have to put stuff in storage and be homeless while I save up. I might be able to stay with relatives or something.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

How we do it is one/more of the following:
1. Rent the cheapest place for your buck. For example, I pay about $750 a month for my apartment; a decent sized one bedroom and one bath. The place is big enough for me, my cat, and whatever unlucky girl ends up falling for me.

It might not be the world's best place to live, but I'm saving that for when all of my debt is gone.

2. Want to be able to spend more on rent or need to save up? Reduce your calorie intake. Back when I first started living on my own, my meals mostly consisted of:
-Mushrooms (when they were on sale)
-Oatmeal (the oats themselves)
-Eggs
-Pasta
-Rice
-Fruit (that was on sale; and bananas were a staple).

I saved about $50 a week just by eating that stuff alone, and I did get a little lazy, so I'm trying to get back on that diet.

3. Don't live outside your means, and question every purchase you make. For example, do you really need a 54" TV? Can a smaller one suffice? Must I really buy the 5lb Chocolate Bar? Do I have to go on this weekend getaway?

4. Constantly look for ways to save money. For example, I have about $35-37K debt from my degree. I am putting in pretty much every penny I'm not using into this. Now, my car loan is almost up, which means I will have another large sum that can go for the smallest loans.

I'm also saving money by not spending out for extra services (for example, I don't care about cable, and I don't need movies on demand, so why pay for it? While Sirius XM is nice to have, I don't need it, and I don't leave all the lights on in the place).

OP, I don't mean to sound like I'm condescending, but maybe you are aiming your sights a little too high? I find that with today's economy, it's better to live smaller, save up, and then purchase. Even when I finally come out with 0 debt, I will probably still be renting for a while after; only difference is that it might be a little more homely than what I have now.

-fossilera

a reply to: neomaximus10
/
I make 40k a year on no schooling... how do you have so much debt and make so little? I have a car, and have no debt. I have savings, I currently pay rent and don't own and understand the pains of having to have a large down payment but i'm trying to put away what i can. My fiance is in school, she is no where near done but she has less than 10k debt right now and she's 4 years into post secondary. I'll say this much the first two years were paid by her family and were several years earlier but she didn't know what she wanted to do then.

I just don't get why people throw themselves into debt for no gain. 20k of student loans to make 30k a year is a bad business decision if you ask me. That's just ridiculous, why did you even go to school?

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

I know it's of little consolation, but you are not alone. My husband and I are working our behinds off, with little time for anything. We're like two ships passing in the night. We have just enough time to eat, clean, pay bills and sleep. We're on, what my loving husband refers to as "the hamster wheel of death". We have one day together. Sunday. We go to church, take a nice long Sunday drive and have lunch somewhere so none of us has to cook for just ONE time out of a week of drudgery.

I know, I'm whining. I really am, but, we all need to whine at some point, just to get it off our chests. At times I simply feel pure anger, mostly at myself. I'm trying hard though.

I feel as if we are going nowhere. The bridge to nowhere. We can't even save money, because everything eats it. The money is gone before we see our checks! I'm so very worried for our future. And yes, dear OP, we too have been trying to get out of this 2 bedroom cracker box apartment, so we can breathe and have a real yard. A nice garden. A porch to sit on. I have dreams. Many dreams. But even trying to rent a house is incredibly expensive. The lowest priced one here in my rural town is $900-$1k a month, where everyone is working service jobs, making minimum wage and slaving away.

My parents were blue collar workers in factories in the 70's - 90's. The factory that my mother worked for and made $21.00 per hour a year before her retirement, now pays $9.00 per hour for the exact same job she did, and the cap on wages there is around $13.50. That's how awful things are. My mother and father never suffered, other than physical ailments from years of factory work, BUT they had a good life. They always took vacations in the summers, enough food on the table, money for bills and insurance and we always had just what we needed. They EVEN had a savings account. They both retired with great benefits. They worked hard and deserved it. I find myself and my husband working just as hard and getting nowhere close to where my parents were, and I have not gone on a vacation since 2006.

I feel the pressure of what the future will be, and I'm honestly afraid sometimes. Like tonight, these worries keep me up.

Sorry I have not read the entire thread, so if am out of context or someone has already posted something similar, my apologies in advance. I am addressing you, not the thread.


While you will probably get a better overall deal with a conventional mortgage, the down payments for FHA are much less.

This study indicates that right now, it is 38% cheaper to buy than rent, according to national averages.

Trulia

I would recommend that you contact a Buyer's Broker in your area. You might also check out HUD foreclosed homes. Recently, they were offering $100 down. In my area, a 100k home rents for $1,000/month , but you can own it for $600/mo including principal, interest, taxes and insurance. Definitely a buyer's market here.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
I'm sorry too see so many like you suffer in the post-prosperity American landscape. I can only offer the best advice I have available to help you out of this mess. 1) Never, never, never buy, "invest in" or attempt to own residential real estate in or near a US urban or suburban area. Urban/suburban real estate is controlled by the Feds and only depreciates in value. There are only two forms of real property worth buying: rural "Land", and multi-million dollar ex-urban gated community. You can't afford the exurban gated community, so that leaves you with rural. And rural is an increasingly difficult "find" because the Elite controllers are trying to make that off limits or unusable as well, (i.e., check water rights before you buy).

If you want to "get ahead" you have to think outside the box. I seriously recommend you evaluate the value of the jobs you and your spouse have and suggest you tip toe into a weekend "Flea market" booth operation; the best way to get some easy gravy is to buy low/sell high in ready wear consumer garments, particularly women's shoes, handbags and accessories. Invest profits in rural land where you can still drill your own water well, or where there's an existing "grandfathered" water well.

For living accommodations: look for mobile home parks, or "Camper" park and to rent if at all possible. Think of it as just a place to bivouac in between work hours; and I'd locate nearer the Flea market than the city and on a bus route.

Stop eating out; its killing you anyway. Buy food in bulk and I'd start with e-foods direct and supplement; invest in a suction pump/food bag system, they work and you waste a lot less food.

Never, never buy a car; buy a truck...used, if you can and buy Toyota for maximum life expectancy. Get acquainted with the local "Pick-a-Part" Junk yard for parts and preferably with a mechanic. If you "must" buy American, buy Chevy pick up, 1500 with small block 350 V8. (When the engine craps out at 100K, you can get a rebuilt 350 and installed for dirt cheap). Be sure to register the truck, if at all possible, in the rural county where you buy the property as it won't be subject to the Urban emissions/inspection rules which drive up repair costs.

That pretty much sums it up. Oh...and avoid Gold, buy silver instead; and when you can afford stocks 7 bonds, buy REITS at about 5% yield on downturns. Assuming you're in your 30's you can expect a market downdraft in 2020 for a good entry point and in your lifetime, you should see about two 10 year "secular" bull markets. If it doesn't pay a dividend, you don't want it. Once you've got a good base of income producing Real Estate Investment Trust type stocks, buy the "MOMO", (momentum) type stocks. Another good set of stocks to buy are the Government shadow stocks like AT&T, Facebook and Union Pacific Railroad. (Government "shadow" stocks are companies that have a peculiar contract relationship with the federal government, i.e., they are national security type stocks and as such are granted a protected monopoly market preference type status).

Good luck!

originally posted by: TonyS
Urban/suburban real estate is controlled by the Feds and only depreciates in value.

What a crock. My home has nearly doubled in value over the past 9 years and I live in a very suburban neighborhood.

originally posted by: CranialSponge
a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

We need almost $10k in several months rent and security deposits just to rent a f'ng house! Wtf?

Where the hell are you moving to that you need 10k in advance payments to rent a house ??

Does it cost that much to rent a house anywhere in the country ?

If that's the case, how is anyone managing to rent a house in the US then ?

I was wondering that as well. Usually they want a deposit and first and last months rent. No where near 10k, unless your renting next to the Kardashians.

Wow thanks for all the replies! I really feel bad for the younger posters here struggling. I was there. My first job I made $8 hr in 1998. 2001 I made $11.50 at Home Depot. I can't believe that almost 15 years later pay is still at those levels. I'll never forget when I went into the local Home Depot to apply the manager asked my how much I wanted to make and I told him well I wrote $9.50 on the app. He said well you won't be disappointed if I give you $11.50! Those days are over I guess.

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

Welcome to Obama's America! Well really it's the post 2008 America and both sides are to blame. I've made responses to several other posts with your exact predicaments sir. My wife and I are 31 years old. She has her masters degree an has a part time low paid internship, and works as a nanny for $20/hr for a total of about 45hrs a week, I have my bachelors and am working on a masters (why? I have no idea, it will be worthless) and work a job an average of 50 to 60 hours a week at $18/hr. We make way more than our parents ever did, and actually make almost as much as my parents do now that my father is on disability and my mothers work has decreased wages to cut costs. My parents were able to get new cars, rent a house, and eventually buy a new home before they were 30 years old. Now my wife and I struggle to afford this TINY 1 bedroom apartment with cockroaches and sewage problems, plus food/gas/electricity/internet/etc. I feel like I am a total failure in life and am often overcome with depression. My parents and in-laws can't understand why we do not have good jobs or own a house yet, and they just do not understand that the American Dream is DEAD. We may never own a house, especially if we keep living where we are...and everyone I know is in the same boat as us unless they either got help from their parents, or happened to be lucky enough to graduate college debt free lol. Otherwise we are all workin for the man and hating our lives. And I noticed a change in 2008 when my jobs I have worked since cut payroll back but still required the same work if not more. My current job, I found an old schedule from a few years back and there used to be a manager, 2 assistants, 2 full time shift leaders, and a full time facilities manager, plus full staff.....now we have 1 manager, and 2 assistants, and some part time staff, and a facilities manager that is shared by 3 or 4 centers so he only comes in a couple hours a week....so three of us managers do the work of what 6 used to do...this is why I work 60hrs a week, yet we get yelled at for our OT and get told to work harder and faster and get it done or else they will find someone who will!

ok...enough ranting....

and just to add, after working 60hrs a week and never getting enough sleep or getting the chance to right (cant afford it/don't have time) I am now diabetic and may have kidney damage at the ripe old age of 31...woohoo

originally posted by: AnonymousMoose


and just to add, after working 60hrs a week and never getting enough sleep or getting the chance to right (cant afford it/don't have time) I am now diabetic and may have kidney damage at the ripe old age of 31...woohoo

Well, when it's Jeb Bushes America in 2016; I'm sure your financial and health issues will improve!

originally posted by: darkwingduck
Check into the Home in 5 program. I am buying a house here in Phoenix using this program. Basically, you get a grant for your down payment. So all you really need is closing costs, and the usual stuff... inspection, earnest deposit, etc. You can even roll the closing costs into the mortgage if you like.

Edit to post... This may be a state program here in AZ... You may want to check with some lenders in your area.

I guess that's why the OP is struggling, he has not to only to cope with debt and not earning a lot, but he has to also pay more for housing because the prices are forced up by these evil government schemes, low interest rates, quantitative easing etc. They take money he's worked for and give it to others for the express purpose of pushing prices beyond his reach.

Keeps the rich rich and the poor poor I suppose.

a reply to: fossilera
I always chuckle a bit when I hear this Dave Ramsey style advice. You're not charging anyone for this"advice" right ? Seriously, though, on the surface such advice sounds quite reasonable. I mean if we just all pull ourselves up by our boot straps, and just have some more back bone or moral fiber or whatever then we'll be just fine, right?
WRONG!!! My wife and I have done pretty much everything we were supposed to. Zero college debt, paid cash for our most expensive car, did everything to get out of debt, bought a house cheap,socked away money in a 401k.. Then I got laid off and we lost everything except our car and our clothes. So what did we do? With a stuff upper lip, we rebuilt and started all over again. I started over in a new and better career, we moved to an area that had more jobs, we rebuilt our credit and bought another inexpensive home...yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah we are back up to our eyeballs in debt yet again and barely able to pay the darn heating bill. And I'm making more now than I ever was!!!! Why is this do you ask? Do we spend a lot of money? Did I make a bad investment? Am I not properly insulating my windows? Nope nope and nope. The problem is that when you work out the bare minimum that one person needs to be fed, clothed, and provided for, then multiply that number by the number of people in my house (we have children), then compare that number by what I make THEre IS A GIGANTIC GAp!!! Basically, everything is WAY TOO EXPENSIvE!!!!! THE WHOLE DANG SYSTEM IS RIGGED!!!!#

originally posted by: theMediator

but even with the best ideas in the world it requires luck and knowing the right persons.

The other way, is having the right values to become rich.-Opportunism with lack of empathy

-Overwhelming pride-Manipulator-Liar-Selfishness-Devious-Deceitful

I really don't have those values.

I don't want those values either, all though they are predominant.
Thanks Mediator

To the OP, I migrated home after too many years and have found the enviroment harsh, I hope you make it and take advice from these people. I didn't have that kind of support. Just two hands.
WIS

originally posted by: Tatanka

I know, I'm whining. I really am,

And you need to, you made me cry, I had time to read the whole thread and here I am I wish the world would change but it won't and some of us end up in the same boat.
Let's help each other put our life jackets on.

we all need to whine at some point,

Yes we do.

I simply feel pure anger, mostly at myself.

Don't, you will just dig your self deeper into nothingness, cry when you can and then grit your teeth dear.

A nice garden. A porch to sit on. I have dreams. Many dreams.
I feel the pressure of what the future will be, and I'm honestly afraid sometimes. Like tonight, these worries keep me up.

Dream, dream, dream and while you give your self time to dream keep fighting. I don't pretend to know your level of fear, but I know you have to keep going. Cuddle up in your dreams with your loved ones and keep going.
Damn rat race. Who blames the race track?
WIS

a reply to: MiddleClassWhiteBoy

You are actually not supposed to he ahead

You are supposed to dwindle into nothing, raped mentally and physically

PS: it is called Fascism and it is popular with US government now a days

originally posted by: MiddleClassWhiteBoy
I'm just bitter I guess. My father in law is wealthy but never offers any help to my wife and I. We don't want to ask and don't expect free money. But wouldnt he rather see us say take out a loan or borrow from him than get screwed by a bank and the system? My own father died when I was 24 and although raised us three boys up right didn't have much to leave us. Although I have a good income and career I feel like a total failure in America. I'll never be able to achieve what generations before me had and I make more in salary than they ever did. But it just seems the things that really led a person to accumulate wealth like a first home, college education are too expensive and right off the bat sink you into debt.
I notice white middle class Americans also don't help each other out as much as other cultures and races. I see Indians giving loans to their children to start businesses etc. Koreans do this a lot.

Ahh and this is the big secret, this is what is NOW required to get ahead. The old "boot-strapping" rules don't apply anymore and that's why you see immigrants taking over the country (from a financial aspect).

For example Vietnamese immigrants share resources among family to start businesses and buy property. I'm not going to go into full detail, but in a nut shell, the way they do this, is EXACTLY the same way Jeff Bezos started Amazon, they ask a relative for a loan, job training and/or a personal favor. Also, if you didn't know, the same thing goes for immigrant owned Donut, Liquor and Smoke shops.

How do I know this you ask? I married a Vietnamese person with a family nail business. NONE of these immigrants get off the plane with nothing in their pockets and nowhere to go, NONE. Extended family ALWAYS takes them into their homes and businesses. Then 10 years later after saving up and learning the ropes, they go and start their own business, then claim to the media "I came here with nothing". Conveniently leaving out the details that they didn't pay for food or rent during the first year living in the US and then later got a "family loan" to get started opening their own business a few years later, AFTER they learned how the business was run, with a LOT of help from family teaching them along the way.

Americans simply don't have this kind of inter-family support system, never have and never will, because American born parents are brainwashed morons. I know first hand because I came from one of those "idiot American" brainwashed families that are still broke to this day. When I got to experience how Asians do things, first hand, I was amazed how stupid American families are in contrast, "boot strapping" their way into poverty, while kicking kids out of the home at 18, that don't know how to survive, due to never being taught how to make money.

So how does Jeff Bezos and Amazon play into all this, you ask? I assert that "regular people" are just are not familiar with how wealth is made today.

Before Junior High School I lived in a low income city, but went to a good Catholic school, where poor kids had informed, supportive parents and a good educational foundation. When I was in Junior High school my mother got remarried and I then attended a good public high school, with rich kids that had informed and supportive parents and a similar educational foundation as the one I had in the Catholic School in the poor neighborhood (NOTE: the richest kids were there purely for exposure in Athletics because because the local private schools were all in small divisions at the time and playing on those small league teams would have affect their chances of getting into division I college sports).

Here is what I have concluded based on that experience:

When I look at the Forbes 400, I see 350+ people whom came from wealthy families. Note, some of them certainly acquired more wealth than their parents had given them to begin with, but VERY FEW, if any, came from what I would consider a Lower Middle class backgrounds or less. I would even ague that to get on the Forbes 400 list, coming from “at least” an Upper Middle class family is the BARE minimum requirement.

I typically use four well known examples, where, being from the Upper Middle class, was a base requirement to enter a particularly new and burgeoning industry, with even an inklings chance for financial success:

1) Bill Gates had access to a mainframe computer, housed at his High School in 1969. My parents of same age didn’t use or see a computer until the early 1980′s and even then, it was something they only experienced and got trained to use at their jobs. Is it really that surprising that Bill Gates was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

2) Mark Zuckerberg got his first computer around 12 years old and at some point his father hired someone to tutor him in computer programing. That computer adjusted for inflation would probably be worth close to $3,000-$4,000 today, not including tutoring costs. To put things into perspective my father had a computer in the early 1990′s, in his home office, that cost him about $3,000 and I was not allowed to touch it, EVER. My used car in high school cost less than half that, to buy at the time. Is it really that surprising that Mark Zuckerberg was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

3) Jeff Bezos claims he paid for college on his own dime and at some point, started Amazon with his own money, HOWEVER, he admits there was a point where he needed financial help, in the form of a loan, to keep the business afloat. Eventually he went to his parents who then loaned him $300,000, after taking out a second mortgage on their home. How many parents posting comments here, would give their children a $300,000 loan, leveraged against their previously paid off home, for a questionable start-up business? Is it really that surprising that Jeff Bezos was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

3) Donald Trump, well what do I need to say here, he inherited his fathers $40 million dollar real estate business and got to learn the business under the guidance of his highly experienced father. Its certainly not surprising that he was able to enter that market before many others and make money?

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying any of the above people were not smart, hard workers, whom to date, have not earned their “keep”, but lets also not also fool ourselves about the financial FOUNDATION they came from.

If ANY of the above people had come from a lower class background than they actually did, their greatest achievements in life would have been inversely diminished because their “spring boards” would also be lower.

The people you see today talking about "how to make money" ALL started out on third base, but for some reason are credited with "Home Runs" today, in hind sight.

continued from above...

Bill Gates, at best, would be a 6 figure VP or President at a software company today, Mark Z would be a 6 figure star programmer at Google or Riot games etc, Jeff Bezos would be a top Costco regional or district manager pulling in 6 figures and Donald Trump would be a small time developer working with much less capital.

I’ve seen this play out many times in life, you can’t be a dummy and turn inherited wealth into more wealth; but being smart, in turn, also won’t allow to you to rub two nickels together, with no family connections, nor any financial support, therein, turning those two nickels into a multi-million dollar company, in some number of years. Certainly not circa 1999-2013.

Now, I do believe a person certainly could have done the above after the war in 1945, but that was a TOTALLY different world in terms of codes, regulations and financial polices. We don’t live in that world anymore. If you want to see how money is actually made today, look up how the “Riot Games” founders got their first $1 million via venture capitalist investor. I’ll give you a hint, it was just like the way Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg Donald Trump way and Jeff B did it, via family help.

If a rich kid has one lick of ambition and knows how to work, MODERATELY hard, they can achieve almost anything they want, with the way the current economy is set up. Starting from nothing today means something very different than it meant 20+ years ago. If you come from a family that does not have a "pot to pi$$ in" circa 2015, you're likely not going nowhere fast and no amount of ambition is going to change that.

What all this means, is that there is a clearly defined age range, where family wealth has a greater influence over a persons ability to become a millionaire later in life, DUE to the increasing costs of starting up a successful modern business. If a Boomer, for example, started a hardware sales operation in the 1970's, that persona had a MUCH greater chance of becoming a millionaire, 30+ years later by 2014, than say an X'er starting a similar business in the 1990's or Millennial starting one in 2015.

In fact, Bank of America has published a white paper outlining EXACTLY what I have described. So even though the report is generated by a corrupt corporation, you can guarantee it has a certain degree of accuracy, due to the type of customers they are targeting with the message it contains. Its highly doubtful, that Bank of America would do poor research on one of their target, high income, customer demographics, most likely to generate profits and buy shares.

The studies title is:

"2013 U.S. TRUST INSIGHTS ON WEALTH AND WORTH Annual survey of high net worth and ultra high net worth Americans"