Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

originally posted by: Agnost
a reply to: Astyanax

June 24th is St. John's day. In many places of the world (mainly Christian) people go outdoors starting St. John's Eve and perform all kind of rituals and celebrations, many involving bonfires.

So: 1) Many people oudoors, and, 2) bonfires

What's interesting about that, is the same thing that's interesting
about Lakota Sioux shamanism (I'm 1/4 Lakota Sioux).

In shamanism, it's common to burn something the 'spirit's like' in
order to attract/please them.

Of course 'spirits' are 'plasma lifeforms' as far as I know as a
'modern shaman' and if that's accurate, it's not surprising at
all, that one would 'attract plasma lifeforms' with an
exothermic reaction which liberates ions and makes a lot
of little particles of smoke, which would also be commonly
found in 'UAPs'.

I've written about this in a book to be published.

So I haven't verified your assertion stated above,
but it would be quite interesting if that's what this
was all about.

Whouda thunk?

Kev

originally posted by: Agnost

originally posted by: Tangerine
originally posted by: Agnost
a reply to: Tangerine

Regarding your first two questions, I know of no scientific studies that support these claims. That's not to say that they don't exist but I don't know about them.

I believe Vallee has attempted or is attempting to test his hypothesis that such a control system exists but I don't think the results are in. Or perhaps I'm misremembering and he suggested a way in which it can be done. Does anyone recall? Vallee is very careful to distinguish between hypotheses and claims of fact.

A pity, because these studies should be quite straightforward to carry out and I think they are highly relevant to the thread.

Regarding Vallée: if he tried, I don't think the result was positive, because certainly here at ats somebody would have heard about it. But a negative result is also a result. And I think Vallée has moved on, because lately it's all about data-basing and data-mining.

I can tell you for a fact, that certain highly ethical people in UFO
research want their privacy; and that given the dishonest nature
of 'UFOs research' in some quarters (if you read Vallee's books many
of most famous cases were flat out staged),

that perhaps one is sick of dodging that sort of thing, and wants
to focus on something that really does need to be done but is
less visible and controversial.

Let's just say that I have a number of friends 'in science' and
leave it at that please. I am not claiming to be anyone's
mouthpiece, nor do I wish to be anyone's mouthpiece.

I do like to clear up misperceptions however; some really
wonderful people get all these weird Internet memes and
urban legends wrongly attached to them.

Kev

originally posted by: Bybyots
a reply to: Astyanax

But the flash is also a signal to birds in the air above the stream: a signal that says 'here's dinner!' See how it works?

And the flash doesn't just mean dinner. Your post reveals an overarching theme of biosemiotics. Usualy it's food and sex, but other types of information are exchanged, and with human animals we have symbol systems to express what is experienced through the senses.

A common theme found in UAP stories is one of them having changed the lives in some way of those that have experienced them. It changes that person's script in some way.

Maybe the UAPs are the terminals on some network that carries information like that?

I'm pretty certain that the 'Trickster' has a full AI body 'in the future'
and doesn't kibitz with humans (who are also computers) nearly
as much or in the same way anymore.

That whole thing about AI and quantum information processing
and the physics of information is what I'm focusing on right
now.

Kev

a reply to: Bybyots

A common theme found in UAP stories is one of them having changed the lives in some way of those that have experienced them. It changes that person's script in some way.

That is a common theme with religious experience as well. NDEs is a good example and then there are those examples that are against the T&Cs. Those are script changers too. With religious experience, the experiencer is driven to share their experience and convert others.

Now, people dont even have to experience a UAP first hand, all you have to do is watch 20 hours of the disclosure project and a few Ancient Aliens episodes to have a religious epiphany.

a reply to: Bybyots

Er, what's a UAP?

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

On that note....and I find this highly
amusing and significant...

the best way to 'summon a ufo' is to
stage a fake sighting with balloons
flares or whatever.

Then after hysyeria sweeps an area,
then 'real UFOs' start to be seen....

(hysteria induced UAPs)

I'm 100% convinced that this is one
form of a successful control loop
test.

Kev

Kev

a reply to: Astyanax

Unidentified Arial Phenonemon.

Often a plasma, either naturally or
artificially generated (by radar
usually - the explanation for
foo fighters in most cases).

Kev

originally posted by: Astyanax
What the guy above and below me said

a reply to: Astyanax

Hi Astyanax,

an Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon, a term that was coined because UFOs had acquired too much of an ET connotation

regards

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

Now, people dont even have to experience a UAP first hand, all you have to do is watch 20 hours of the disclosure project and a few Ancient Aliens episodes to have a religious epiphany.

Hi Buddy,

I think that's a really good point, and that sort of idea has been one of my big take-aways from the last several weeks of ATSing.

After the Tom H. Venus video one could almost believe that the experience could be induced in some (me included) just by showing them a video of a light peacefully drifting through the sky.

With religious experience, the experiencer is driven to share their experience and convert others.

Yeah, some folks seem to be what I think of as powerful transducers of the phenomenon that disseminate the "information", or their "script-changedness", to others. I also would not be surprised if these powerful transducers are also able to stimulate the audio and visual components of the experience in others.

Seems like that would bring us to "viral memes" and also seems to reinforvce the biosemiotics thing.

Shiny lights? Tausk's Influencing Machine?

Beuhler?

a reply to: Astyanax

If microbes and flukes are not to some people's taste, they might want to consider that folklore, at least, admits the existence of nonphysical parasites: vampires, succubi and the like. Maybe the cause of the UFO phenomenon is a parasite like that... and UFO believers are the hag-ridden souls on whom they feed.

Steady on! I probably fit your definition of a 'UFO believer' and resent the comparison.

I'd be very disappointed indeed if UFO phenomena were finally explained by folkloric critters and night-time beasties. Our old folklore and myth books would suddenly become technical manuals.

Parasitology I can really go for insofar as it might explain some recorded events. Maybe a particular UFO wave could be analysed in a similar way to epidemiologists studying virus spread? There are databases that contain all the necessary detail for plotting times, dates and geographical coordinates. This image of 'the clap' spreading in the USA is what I'm suggesting. It's taken from this article in The Lancet.

The 1954 French Wave seems ripe for such a plotting.

I've spent a few moments during the day thinking about the idea of parasites and think it's worth pursuing. At the same time, it doesn't help me to explain some particular reports without a lot of special pleading. For example, an airliner incident included the flight crew and passengers reportedly seeing objects on the port side (iirc). The pilot and co-pilot weren't aware that some passengers and the stewardess had seen the same thing. All fair enough. The audio is out there and so are the original statements.

To frame that as an example of parasites is problematic. Firstly because the parasites in each respective witness would need to simultaneously trigger a single hallucination/delusion. Secondly we'd need an explanation of how those on the plane became infected when we might expect they originated in different locations.

In the first problem, you mentioned earlier that malaria can cause delusions and, of course, you're right. Another positive is that malaria can appear and then lie dormant for many years so we could conceivably have an explanation for why seemingly average, mentally 'normal' people relate a one-off extraordinary experience. However, does it seem plausible as a cause for that report or others involving more than one person - or unrelated people?

Still, it would be interesting to see if a sightings wave could be attributed to the spread of an exotic infection. Another pursuit would be comparing the rising use of antibiotics and/or vaccinations with the decreasing number of reports. Correlation and causation issues aside, the results could be suggestive. Who knows?

a reply to: Bybyots

I won't spark up one of our old "discussions".

However you don't talk much about the
hundreds of cases where people get
heavy doses of radiation...metal slag
falls out of the sky....even toilets, pots
and pans and all sorts of stuff in the
late 1800s and early 1900s.

(NOT within an ETH framework due
to other factors that make that
untenable)

Has your view changed during the past
year?

Kev

a reply to: Kandinsky

You know that I'm a proponent of the
'plasma parasite/symbiote hypothesis'.

But strictly speaking I don't want to go
into that in this post. ..I want to mostly
avoid that topic and my and others
crazed hot button topic.

It would be fun to tap the intelligent and
creative minds of other posters.

So...what do you think about the concept
that some 'species' (let's keep it totally
unspecified to avoid crapping up this
post)

somewhere/somewhen evolved into a
more 'information state' / AI sort of
configuration - let's say that this species
went through a 'post singularity phase'
and that THIS is the intelligence that
is interacting with us...by any means
they can....

But pehaps they are a species of
transtemporal plants that evolved
'post singularity' into plasma AI
with a 1 trillion IQ.... (just a
ridiculous example) and now get
sucked into our nervous system
in some instances...

So maybe we humans are worshipping
some cargo cult lifeform which may
want little to do with us...and in fact
it's 'human insanity' which drives
these innocents crazy...which feeds
back to drive us crazy....

In short...what do you think of a post
singularity trillion IQ, information
based life form interacting with us
type of theory?

;-)

Kev

I'll be the first to admit that most UAP
research by anateurs at least, can best
be characterized as:
Cargo Cult Science

I don't claim to like it. But before there was
chemistry there was alchemy. Before
Astronomy there was Astrology. Heck the
father of Calculus and Physics was both
of those.

Frankly I HATE having to be 'one of those
people' most of the time. Somebody has
to do it. Researchers are so desperate they
have been reaching out to 'shamen' for
some time now.

I think we need this wild exploratory phase..
but I hope we can make progress and leave
behind 'Cargo Cult Science'....it's going to
take hundreds of years probably...we need
to replace math and physics with something
more akin to quantum information theory...
at least the most intelligent people I know
say that...

I'm just an ex nuclear engineroom supervisor,
and present Principal Systems Engineer...
(just a geek really). But I do love pushing
the edges of reality. ..

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

However you don't talk much about...

Well that's because it's like being in a garage full of parts. There's the parts that I have a personal interest in, the parts that I have to learn sometihng about to make sense of the parts that I am interested in, and the parts that I have to learn something about that I totally back-burner because I just can't bring myself to slog through a bunch of stuff.

I'm a guy that's trying to remove stuff from the table, not pile stuff on, and I often take a scorched-earth policy to whole swathes of "data-points" because they are connected enough to known bull# that I feel comfortable setting them on fire.

Which brings us to the radiation: you know, I'm not just cribbing from Project Condign anymore. I'm in whole-hog. It has everything in it that I'm interested in and the weather stuff is going to keep me busy for quite a while. But if you want to read about burns from UAPs go fish it out of the UAPoUKADR report, it goes on at length about the burns.

Otherwise...

the best way to 'summon a ufo' is to stage a fake sighting with balloons flares or whatever. Then after hysyeria sweeps an area, then 'real UFOs' start to be seen....

...Yeah, you're right. There's the winning template right there for the project for the Vallee ~ CS Thread. But that's usually called "foisting a UFO hoax" and we would get in to trouble for that. Fortunately we have videos of Venus. If we could only wire the web to biometrics and then show them videos from Venus.

This, on the other hand:

Unidentified Arial Phenonemon.
Often a plasma, either naturally or artificially generated
(by radar usually - the explanation for foo fighters in most cases).

Not really, Kev, what you have desribed there is more like, say, when you hit the font-server for Liberation Sans and it comes back Helvetica Unicode MS.

Has your view changed during the past year?

Has my view changed from what?

IMHO --- Plasma beings are not a viable or practical support for any viable life form in our universe. Any comparison to such, is most likely due to some form of laser holographic imagery --- which is one form of communication to certain Earthlings that are exposed to communication attempts by whoever is transmitting them.

Fusion plasma is a basic form of energy in our universe --- including such civilizations that have harnessed it in forms as a basic method to fuel a photon powered starship in places that lack starlight photons.

Cheers,

Erno

originally posted by: Kandinsky
Still, it would be interesting to see if a sightings wave could be attributed to the spread of an exotic infection.

It would also be interesting if it could be determined that the infection created some modification of the perceptions of a witness. Something that infected them but at the same time allowed them to see or experience something that they wouldn't have been able to otherwise, due to their strong natural tendency to want consistency in their reality. Somebody gets sick, has a "hallucination," but the hallucination is actually more real than their normal, ordinary reality.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

A lot of people worship the Canaanite war/
sky god, thinking that has more relevance
than any other 'god'.

To each their own...but it's grossly off
topic.

Kev

Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

Im afraid the theory I put forth, well, more than just a theory, does in fact fit within the scope of the title of your thread. But instead of calling them "Extra", I call them "Inner". A hidden secret society who posses high technology, to us, but to them, as simple as the nose on you face. A "Canaanite war/sky god" would, and does fit nicely into what we witness. I fail to understand why a named force from the past would not be relevant to your topic. Its not extraterrestrial in nature, is it?

This thread is for discussing non-physical hypotheses. That's not to say that your topic isn't interesting.

Ummm...........

This thread is devoted to discussing hypotheses about UFOs that do not involve extra-terrestrials. Topics or approaches to the subject of UFOs appropriate for discussion in this thread include metaphysical, paranormal, fortean, mythological, folkloric and similar approaches to UFOs.

Ummm, Mythological? Are not the Biblical Giants considered such? Are not the Greek and Roman Gods, considered such????? Mythological, and non extraterrestrial.

Yes, of course.

originally posted by: Agnost
a reply to: Astyanax

June 24th is St. John's day. In many places of the world (mainly Christian) people go outdoors starting St. John's Eve and perform all kind of rituals and celebrations, many involving bonfires.

So: 1) Many people oudoors, and, 2) bonfires

That's also the case on Mid-Summer eve which occurs a few days earlier. I could be wrong, but I don't think the summer solstice ever falls on the 24th. Despite the fact that increasing numbers of people in the West are celebrating the summer solstice, the numbers are still very small. How popular is the outdoor bonfire celebration of St. John's day in the West?

a reply to: Bybyots

Ok...no change.

Thanks for the update.

Kev