Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

I listened to Jacques Vallee last night on CoastToCoast radio --- And IMHO ---- Vallee came across as a mass of contradictions...by trying to suggest that it is a non-extraterrestrial answer to the UFO enigma. The interview reminded me of the return to the dark ages --- what with his recent second edition release of his book that only sold 5,000 copies of the first edition --- Yet a new book cover that has the resemblance [according to Vallee] of a large dark eyed gray with a tentacled creature and the mask of a red horned devilish mask beside the gray.

Give me a break!!!

a reply to: Erno86

Well.

Dr. Vallees theories might be wrong.
My theories might be wrong.

But on a positive note:

The man has a Ph.d in computer science
and a master's degree in Astronomy.

He helped invent the Internet we are
using to communicate.

He helped NASA map Mars for the first
time.

He owns multiple VC companies and
has started up more than 67 companies.

He has been independently researching
UFOs in person at encounter sites all
around the Earth for over 50 years.

So...

I think I'll carefully consider the man
might be on to something, rather than
ignore his brilliant and back breaking
work, because some guy I dont know
put forward a complex scientific
argument of not liking his interview
on 'Coast to Coast'.

Don't take this response as an attack.
It's not.

Kev

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Tangerine

If you've ever attended a gathering of literalists obsessed with UFOs, the comparison with religious fundamentalism is obvious.

That's true, but you could say the same about a gathering of Batman fans, vegans or model-railway enthusiasts.

There are similarities, but the Batman fans and model-railway enthusiasts don't believe the objects of their devotion are going to save them or possess them. The vegans...eh.

a reply to: Astyanax

Perhaps the selective advantage of the UFO phenomenon to the hypothetical parasite causing it is simply unknown to us, but it seems far more likely to me that the phenomenon has no selective advantage in itself, but is a by-product of some other effect that is the true advantage. Or else, the UFO phenomenon is a meme that propagates through the culture because of its own selective potential. In other words, the phenomenon is itself the parasite, propagating itself through the culture by infecting susceptible minds.

Good ideas. Parasitology hit the news a few years ago and sent me off to explore the documented effects. If you have the time to listen, there was an excellent show by Radiolab (science and scepticism) called Parasites. They explored the impact parasites have on behaviour and raised questions about the extent to which human behaviour might be influenced by such stowaways.

As you know, several studies have implicated toxoplasma as causes of psychiatric conditions like depression, schizophrenia and traits of OCD. That's just one example when there could be others yet to be discovered. You also probably know that it's early days yet and there's still room for more research and more significant results. It's an intriguing possibility that might explain clusters of people reporting unusual experiences. There certainly appears to be a high frequency of people (not all) with apparent psychological conditions fuelling the sub-cultures of Contactees, Abductees and outré claims.

It's axiomatic that most people want to elevate one explanation over all others. In reality, we have an exhaustive list of prosaic explanations for most reported experiences. Abnormal psychology, brain lesions, rocket launches, landing lights and naive will-to-believe could account for a high percentage of reports and that's probably a modest understatement. Still, it's in our nature to generalise and we do so with the implicit, subjective assumption that we're rational beings.

If we throw a spanner in the works, parasitology could undermine our collective security in the ability to be rational. We could find that our capacity for critical thinking and successful communication between firing synapses is reduced, or deflected, by these parasites. For me, it also offers optimism for humanity because we could possibly find a connection between our worst excesses and the presence of the parasite-host relationship. Wouldn't it be a fine day to find evidence of parasites in the graves of Cambodia, Rwanda and other 20th Century genocides?

No doubt, we'd still have other social, cultural and genetic drivers that generate periods of atrocity.

Yeah, parasitology could be seen as off-topic in the thread. On the other hand, your inclusion of the possibility places a question mark over the ability of observers to truly trust their perceptions.

It's one of many possible explanations.

originally posted by: Agnost
a reply to: Tangerine

Dear all, I have some questions:

- Regarding people that see a UFO being more prone to experience other paranormal phenomena also:
Does anyone have a reference of a sound non-biassed non-anecdotal scientific study proving this?

- Regarding certain people being more prone to experience UFOs (and/or other phenomena), because of: a) psychological condition, or b) genetic / abused as a child / born on a 'hot spot' / associated with the military:
Same thing: any reference to a scientific study proving this?

- Regarding Vallée's 'Control system':
Does anybody know whether he (or sb else) set out to test this hypothesis (again: soundly scientifically designed) and what the results were?

Regarding your first two questions, I know of no scientific studies that support these claims. That's not to say that they don't exist but I don't know about them.

I believe Vallee has attempted or is attempting to test his hypothesis that such a control system exists but I don't think the results are in. Or perhaps I'm misremembering and he suggested a way in which it can be done. Does anyone recall? Vallee is very careful to distinguish between hypotheses and claims of fact.

originally posted by: Fromabove
More than a million years ago a very advance civilization lived on the planet. For their own reasons they thought it better to live under the earth and the oceans. Some however decided to stay on the surface. To the surface dwellers wars reduced their knowledge to basic human functions of hunting and gathering for the lack of technology and needed machinery.

Meanwhile, those who took to the oceans and underground dwellings continued to advance.

Eventually, the humans on the surface began to advance, yet behind by nearly a million years. Eventually they began to take notice of the strange things happening in the oceans and under the earth. This is where we are today.

Physical adaptions also happened to each. Those under the earth and seas developed larger eyes to see with and thinner bodies due to more powerful modified and refined food sources not requiring a larger stomach or internal organs. The lack of true sunlight caused a dulling of skin texture and a completely hairless body.

Those on the surface produced melanin in their skin to cope with a sometimes brutal sun. They retained some hair to protect vulnerable areas from sunburn. Their eyes became adept to seeing and needed not be large or darkened. They consumed other animals giving need for a more robust digestive system and internal organs.

In support of this hypothesis, we have the under-dweller problems spoken of by alien witnesses, and the activities seen in and under the oceans.

That's an interesting topic but not for this thread. Please read the opening post.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Please read the opening post.

originally posted by: dennisarends
hi, i have a theory, im a simple guy actually, but i think i just found out the perfect antigrav shape, and if i could realise it, and totally see it, so can you i hope, but i know "they" did. ( america, russia, egyptian pharao's )
ive made a crude video about my idea and have some extra original ducuments and drawings online freely.
i had not real option for audio, i was lucky to demonstrate this having a wacom, extra screen, and screen recorder lol.. otherwise ive never been able to demonstrate this idea.



www.youtube.com...=548

documents can be found here:

dl.dropboxusercontent.com...

thank you for watching if you enjoyed this, and gods speed to all. and may God be with you aswell.

This is seriously off topic. Please read the opening post.

Let's all try to stay on-topic and away from physical hypotheses. Thanks.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

A lot of people worship the Canaanite war/
sky god, thinking that has more relevance
than any other 'god'.

To each their own...but it's grossly off
topic.

Kev

Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

Im afraid the theory I put forth, well, more than just a theory, does in fact fit within the scope of the title of your thread. But instead of calling them "Extra", I call them "Inner". A hidden secret society who posses high technology, to us, but to them, as simple as the nose on you face. A "Canaanite war/sky god" would, and does fit nicely into what we witness. I fail to understand why a named force from the past would not be relevant to your topic. Its not extraterrestrial in nature, is it?

This thread is for discussing non-physical hypotheses. That's not to say that your topic isn't interesting.

originally posted by: Erno86
I listened to Jacques Vallee last night on CoastToCoast radio --- And IMHO ---- Vallee came across as a mass of contradictions...by trying to suggest that it is a non-extraterrestrial answer to the UFO enigma. The interview reminded me of the return to the dark ages --- what with his recent second edition release of his book that only sold 5,000 copies of the first edition --- Yet a new book cover that has the resemblance [according to Vallee] of a large dark eyed gray with a tentacled creature and the mask of a red horned devilish mask beside the gray.

Give me a break!!!

Have you read Vallee's work? UFO phenomena is unbounded and, as such, is contradictory and amorphous. The value of a book shouldn't be judged by how many copies it sells. I didn't listen to the broadcast but Vallee may have been limited by the nature of the questions asked by the host who has an agenda of his own and a target audience with preferences.

a reply to: Tangerine

In 'Invisible College' he states that he wanted
to try to 'feed back towards the source' of
the control loop as an experiment.

I'm not aware of what result he got, but it
seems he got some kind of result. But it
might have been anecdotal. I don't think
it was a true 'double blind test' - but frankly
I don't know.

I've done my own anecdotal tests.

Kev

Jacques Vallee is 75. Brad Steiger is 80. John Alexander is 78. Ingo Swann is dead.

The bookstores that used to sell their books are closing left and right. Didn't anyone notice Wagner's Twighlight of The Gods playing during all of the AMAs last year?

Their era is coming to an end. I don't know what that means, but if Nietzsche was right about eternal recurrence, and he was, then they'll be back in some new form.

Meanwhile, while we wait, the hacks that run blogs up and down the interwebs are actually stealing our #. Did anyone else notice Redfern ripping off The GUT?

Anyhow, as they say in Cefalu, "We are alone, there are no Gods where we are". I'm not counting on the grandpa-squad to figure any of this out for us. The "interdimensional hypothesis" is as useless as the math that tries to describe it.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Tangerine

In 'Invisible College' he states that he wanted
to try to 'feed back towards the source' of
the control loop as an experiment.

I'm not aware of what result he got, but it
seems he got some kind of result. But it
might have been anecdotal. I don't think
it was a true 'double blind test' - but frankly
I don't know.

I've done my own anecdotal tests.

Kev

Yes, that's what I recall. It would be interesting to learn if he followed-up on that and what, if anything, resulted.

originally posted by: Bybyots
Jacques Vallee is 75. Brad Steiger is 80. John Alexander is 78. Ingo Swann is dead.

The bookstores that used to sell their books are closing left and right. Didn't anyone notice Wagner's Twighlight of The Gods playing during all of the AMAs last year?

Their era is coming to an end. I don't know what that means, but if Nietzsche was right about eternal recurrence, and he was, then they'll be back in some new form.

Meanwhile, while we wait, the hacks that run blogs up and down the interwebs are actually stealing our #. Did anyone else notice Redfern ripping off The GUT?

Anyhow, as they say in Cefalu, "We are alone, there are no Gods where we are". I'm not counting on the grandpa-squad to figure any of this out for us. The "interdimensional hypothesis" is as useless as the math that tries to describe it.

Can you take this in a direction that is on-topic? Complaints about Nick Redfern ripping off someone and an article about dummies at Roswell is not on-topic.

a reply to: Bybyots

Both of these gentlemen want a younger
generation to take the torch and run
with it.

Ugh.

Kev

a reply to: Tangerine

One interesting data point for ANY theory
about UFOs is to be found in Appendix
one of Vallee's book "Revelations".

It's a chart of when 'UFO' sightings are
reported (using his extensive DB).

Sightings spike up hard after 8 PM and
spike down hard around 6 AM.

Now there are obvious mundane
inferences one might make about
the sun, people being at work and
inside, etc.

But one thing that is of note to me
is that these findings are global and
not just for the USA or NATO
countries.

So this somewhat kicks the US
Black ops theory in the teeth.

What else may be surmised
I leave open for discussion.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I have experienced shared UFO experiences, and I am not deluded in any way.

Blaming a specific phenomena and barring all others on a parasite seems rather ridiculous, not that it is your theory but in response to your comment.

Shared or mass sightings /experiences suggest something other than a parasite.

The ergot mould on rye that caused mass hysteria that started various howling at the moon tales is the sort of reaction that a parasite would cause, not individual and shared sightings of specific phenomena.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You do not know if such things exist let alone if and how, therefore you cannot make such assumptions unless you admit they are unsubstantiated opinions.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

A lot of people worship the Canaanite war/
sky god, thinking that has more relevance
than any other 'god'.

To each their own...but it's grossly off
topic.

Kev

Non-Extraterrestrial UFO Hypotheses

Im afraid the theory I put forth, well, more than just a theory, does in fact fit within the scope of the title of your thread. But instead of calling them "Extra", I call them "Inner". A hidden secret society who posses high technology, to us, but to them, as simple as the nose on you face. A "Canaanite war/sky god" would, and does fit nicely into what we witness. I fail to understand why a named force from the past would not be relevant to your topic. Its not extraterrestrial in nature, is it?

This thread is for discussing non-physical hypotheses. That's not to say that your topic isn't interesting.

Ummm...........

This thread is devoted to discussing hypotheses about UFOs that do not involve extra-terrestrials. Topics or approaches to the subject of UFOs appropriate for discussion in this thread include metaphysical, paranormal, fortean, mythological, folkloric and similar approaches to UFOs.

Ummm, Mythological? Are not the Biblical Giants considered such? Are not the Greek and Roman Gods, considered such????? Mythological, and non extraterrestrial.